So says you. A majority voted to leave the EU and remaining in the single market ignores the three main reasons for that, contributing to the EU, accepting EU laws and FoM.

The only poll that matters showed 52% want to leave.

For obvious reasons. A club or union with different rules for different members would quickly descend into chaos ie. everyone arguing for opt outs and exemptions and asking "If they don't have to obey that rule, why do we?".

The problem is not opt outs, there are plenty of countries getting opt out on new legislation.

The problem is the whole structure is an unwieldy mess that is impossible to reform.

Everybody knows it needs reform even arch Europhiles, it is just too difficult to achieve it and so everybody has given up trying.

It is a fundamentally flawed entity.

Sadly the eu doesn't different views or voices , all they want is all eu Nations
to speak with one voice

The alternative would simply be to let it break up and everyone go their own way. But we know that for 70 years before 1945, there were three major wars in Europe and the place was very chaotic with countries competing with each other and squaring up to each other. The break up of the EU mightn't necessarily be followed by war but we would probably see the emergence of blocs of like minded countries which would be risky stuff - we could see things like trade wars or embargos breaking out, particularly if our far right friends came to power in some countries.

Its been my view from day one when Juncker acted like a crazed rejected lover that Hard Brexit was the only way forward and that should be our starting and only negotiating stance. The delusional fools in Brussels are expecting us to beg for forgiveness and we should do absolutely anything but.

Not to remainers who never wanted to be in this inevitably damaging situation in the first place.

The EU started life as a like-minded trading bloc. Where it has gone wrong is that it has become an ideologically driven political entity determined to unite all of Europe at any cost economically, politically but worst or all socially. Ordinary citizens and national leaderships are ignored or railroaded if they're views contradict the European establishment.

There would be plenty who would agree with you and who would say it is in urgent need of reform at all levels and to be made more accountable to the people of Europe. But the alternative scenario of it breaking up and 28 countries going it alone would be an even worse scenario, particularly with the rise of nationalism and populism at the moment.

It stands to reason that some of these nationalist minded countries might decide they're not overly fond of some other countries in Europe and things could get very messy. By all means, the EU should be reformed though and made more accountable to the ordinary citizen.

I simply don't see that an opening stance of the UK can't have it's cake and eat it, we can't have the benefits without the commitments, as being a particularly hard stance.

We can't just assume why people voted to leave the EU - it may have been for many different reasons. As long as we leave, we've respected the majority decision. Any deals we do with the EU after that can be reversed by successive governments if necessary.

We can conclude though that all the possible major reasons for a leave vote are fundamentally incompatible with remaining in the single market.

Labour want the results of the negotiation to go to a second referendum, any deal that keeps FMOP is almost bound to be rejected by the electorate.

For most of the leave voters, but it only takes a few to swap sides and you're in the minority.

I think it will increase the vote to leave.

Once they see that in the deal, the media will turn the rhetoric up to maximum and the pitchforks will come out.

Except that it wasn't because we were outside the EEC, it was because of our and other crap politicians and the activities of other nations, particularly the USA in their dealings with Israel that alienated the Arab world causing the oil issue to go on beyond the point at which it should have eased; and prior to that, the US dropping of the gold standard causing waves around the world.

There's a lot more than I've stated which yoy have either forgotten or never knew about but nice to see this:

Quote:
“ So however bad it was for us inside the EU”

You are Ash and I claim my £5.

The EU the way it is now was not even on the agenda of the then EEC before the UK first joined the EEC in 1973 and at the time of the EEC in/out referendum in 1975.

The EU was only thought of by the EEC as something of an idea only at the tail end of the 1980's, not a full scale proposal way back in 1973, so to the Brexiteers the now EU was clearly not the intention all along the way they assume.

The UK applying for and joining the EEA and customs union soon after leaving the EU would not undo leaving somewhat.

|It would but the other consideration is the GE where many current incumbents would be up against stark choices and determined opposition whereby any agreement took centre stage of that campaign. IT would depend if the agreement could be presented as a sell out and there seems little doubt that that is how such an agreement keeping any of the contentious issues would be presented.

The EU, or a Federation has always been on the lips of many of the statesmen who have been active in the EU since at and even before its inception. It has always been presented to the electorate as something else. Heath tried to commit us to monetary union by 1980

If only that were possible but the EU leadership have shown time and again they are not willing to listen to any voice, Government or electorate contrary to their agenda. At that point an institution becomes unreformable and those countries opposed to its agenda have a simple choice before them, accept or leave. Britain was the first to choose and chose leave.

Collapse of the EU and the Single Market would be much, much worse than anything that prevails at the moment. It's a vast continent of 500 million people and 24 different languages and cultures. It's obvious that a post-EU Europe would be an almighty mess with numerous vested interests pulling against each other.

The EU is already heading for collapse, 28 countries with different economies and levels of economic development being forced to follow the same economic plan using the same currency. Mass unemployment is endemic, growth anaemic a number of members are effectively bankrupt yet unable to follow a more suitable economic policy because of EU membership constraints.

I really don't know how it could be worse than it currently is.

The eu thinks one size fits all.