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Guardian: EU agrees to push UK into Hard Brexit


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Old 20-11-2016, 08:48
Cosya
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This is why the whole Parliament debate is pointless. Nothing can be decided until negotiations start because there are two sides. Negotiation can't start until Article triggered,
Exactly
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Old 20-11-2016, 09:05
BrokenArrow
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If we accepted all those rules then the Brexit vote would be negated. There is no "soft" Brexit option.
Yes, this is the logical conclusion.

FMOP is only possible between equal economies, the issue was never a problem before they let the eastern european countries into the single market.

Brexit is pointless unless FMOP is halted.
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Old 20-11-2016, 09:05
Aristaeus
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We know that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We had this debate before the referendum remember.

All the warnings, all the scares and we still voted out.

That decision must be respected, lets get the hell on with it, geez.
We voted to leave, not for hard Brexit. You may think it's good that the industry that provides 20% of our GDP will be decimated, but I don't.
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Old 20-11-2016, 09:16
WhoAteMeDinner
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As an Irish preson, I must say as an outsider, the Guardian story has a strong scent of truth to it. Word around Dublin is the Irish goverment is the only and very small voice at the European Council calling for Britain to be treated like an honorary EU member after it leaves.

That is falling on deaf ears among all the big powers, France and Germany have far-right parties at their throats in the coming months in general elections. FN and AFD may well guarantee Britain a nightmare future and Ireland too, sadly.
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Old 20-11-2016, 09:16
BrokenArrow
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We voted to leave, not for hard Brexit. You may think it's good that the industry that provides 20% of our GDP will be decimated, but I don't.
EU trade is 10% of our business and making the other 90% suffer to maintain that is not fair.

....and lets not forget all those businesses that no longer exist thanks to that !
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Old 20-11-2016, 09:17
LostFool
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It's hilarious that the Leavers have been saying for years that we should ignore Europe and make our own decisions but as soon as there is a suggestion that there could be a "hard" exit then they suddenly change their minds and say that we should do exactly what they say.
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Old 20-11-2016, 09:23
JDF
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The eu are only doing it so no other countries dare leave the eu.As no country should have the audacity to leave the eu Paradise
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Old 20-11-2016, 09:33
WhoAteMeDinner
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The eu are only doing it so no other countries dare leave the eu.As no country should have the audacity to leave the eu Paradise
EU is neither paradise nor hell, fish nor foul if you prefer. A loose confederation of economically integrated neighbouring states, about as politically united and cohesive as the Hnaseatic League for goodness sake.

When all the ills of Britain based on class lines and domestic economic inequalities are not one iota better ten years after Brexit, the peasants will cut up mightily rough.
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Old 20-11-2016, 09:51
heskethbang
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Good news. Either you have brexit or you don't. The single market is just a tariff wall on a European scale. It's making food and other imports far more expensive to EU consumers.

Yes, you can stay in the EEA and remain a member of the single market, but you still can't control immigration, while being subject to EU laws and institutions, with even less of a say than the heavily diluted way we currently do.
It would be a fudge, a mess, would please nobody, and would create further turmoil.

We need to be free from the institutions that override our own courts and parliament.

A clean brexit is the path to global free trade and certainty. I actually find the prospect rather exciting.
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Old 20-11-2016, 09:57
James2001
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Yay, we're f***ed.
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Old 20-11-2016, 09:59
gocompletelynut
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I love the idea that hard brexit is some kind of threat.



oooh I'm really scared.



The EU really don't get that we are leaving do they,
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Old 20-11-2016, 10:05
Miasima Goria
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I love the idea that hard brexit is some kind of threat.



oooh I'm really scared.



The EU really don't get that we are leaving do they,
The UK is behaving like that person that says they are leaving a party cos it sucks, yet are still there at 0200, moaning about how crap it is, nicking everyone else's beer and insisting the host orders the a cab cos reasons.
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Old 20-11-2016, 10:06
jjwales
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Good news. Either you have brexit or you don't. The single market is just a tariff wall on a European scale. It's making food and other imports far more expensive to EU consumers.

Yes, you can stay in the EEA and remain a member of the single market, but you still can't control immigration, while being subject to EU laws and institutions, with even less of a say than the heavily diluted way we currently do.
It would be a fudge, a mess, would please nobody, and would create further turmoil.

We need to be free from the institutions that override our own courts and parliament.
Though generally they don't do that.
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Old 20-11-2016, 10:13
CSJB
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We voted to leave, not for hard Brexit. You may think it's good that the industry that provides 20% of our GDP will be decimated, but I don't.
Decimate means losing 10%, so 10% of 20% is only 2%, that's about the same as one years growth.
I think losing one years growth of GDP is a small price to pay to escape the clutches of the EU.
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Old 20-11-2016, 10:20
Thiswillbefun
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We know that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We had this debate before the referendum remember.

All the warnings, all the scares and we still voted out.

That decision must be respected, lets get the hell on with it, geez.
Not really. Leave was based of a pack of lies to swing the vote.

Only around 5% voted for a Brexit that would destroy the British economy.

Most others voted based on the lies about immigration, which they now discover won't fall, or the additional billions Brexit would save, but people are now realising Brexit will cost the UK trillions.
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Old 20-11-2016, 10:23
BrokenArrow
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A clean brexit is the path to global free trade and certainty. I actually find the prospect rather exciting.
Then you have missed the whole point of Brexit and Trump.
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Old 20-11-2016, 10:24
gocompletelynut
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We knew leaving the EU would mean a financial hit, god knows they told us enough.

We took that on board and on balance decided in the long run it was worth it.

This is the bit Remainers fail to comprehend.
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Old 20-11-2016, 10:26
jjwales
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We knew leaving the EU would mean a financial hit, god knows they told us enough.

We took that on board and on balance decided in the long run it was worth it.

This is the bit Remainers fail to comprehend.
I think you mean some Remainers!
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Old 20-11-2016, 10:27
gocompletelynut
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Not really. Leave was based of a pack of lies to swing the vote.

Only around 5% voted for a Brexit that would destroy the British economy.

Most others voted based on the lies about immigration, which they now discover won't fall, or the additional billions Brexit would save, but people are now realising Brexit will cost the UK trillions.
The remain campaign fundamentally told us that we would all lose out financially if we voted to leave, nobody could miss it.

£4300 a year etc. as leavers we knew and understood this.

Remainers think we were sold a pack of lies because they cant understand the point of view that yes we will be hurt financially but as leavers we decided it was worth it.
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Old 20-11-2016, 10:28
Thiswillbefun
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Decimate means losing 10%, so 10% of 20% is only 2%, that's about the same as one years growth.
I think losing one years growth of GDP is a small price to pay to escape the clutches of the EU.
It's likely to be far more than 2% per annum, but even 2% compounded over 10 years is a 22% drop. That's the economy shrinking by nearly a quarter in 10 years!
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Old 20-11-2016, 10:32
i4u
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Decimate means losing 10%, so 10% of 20% is only 2%, that's about the same as one years growth.
I think losing one years growth of GDP is a small price to pay to escape the clutches of the EU.
Joining the EEC is said to have added 7% to our exports and another 7% when the single market was formed.

In goods alone a 10% reduction in exports would currently be a loss of £28.4bn a year, which is double our 2015contribution to the EU.

Even if it's a 10% reduction of just goods exports to Europe that's £15bn a year which about 3 times our total net contribution to the EU in 2015.
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Old 20-11-2016, 10:34
Thiswillbefun
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The remain campaign fundamentally told us that we would all lose out financially if we voted to leave, nobody could miss it.

£4300 a year etc. as leavers we knew and understood this.

Remainers think we were sold a pack of lies because they cant understand the point of view that yes we will be hurt financially but as leavers we decided it was worth it.
You may know this, but the headlines in The Mail, The Metro, The Sun, The Express etc were all about how leaving would stop the terrorists and ISIS, while mocking any figures from the remain side put forward. Yet they were will to put the £350 million a week for the NHS lie on their front covers. That's a 10% - 15% swing in the vote right there.
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Old 20-11-2016, 10:36
andykn
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Good. The harder the better.
For whom and how, exactly?
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Old 20-11-2016, 10:36
James_Orton
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A hard Brexit would mean the end of financial passporting and hence decimate London's financial hub - which accounts for around 20% of our GDP.
Lets hope there are other regulations in place like MiFID II and AIFMD then that allow for passporting in or out of the EU and mitigate large parts of the financial passporting loss.
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Old 20-11-2016, 10:37
Dacco
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Good. The harder the better.
BIB, sounds like a title for a 1970's porn movie, but yes let's get on with it .........
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