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Guardian: EU agrees to push UK into Hard Brexit


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Old 04-01-2017, 16:50
andykn
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Which is all you can do - regurgitate rubbish - but as I pointed out - they already do....but they cannot match the capacity of all their overseas operations......as well as being near their markets of expected sales......and don't forget their very highly valued currency. They at least can see the sense in having overseas manufacturing facilities.....even if you can't!

Erm - they have quite a few operations in the EU - but they also seem to like the UK's non- EU export market too.
Well, it's really their non-EU export markets. They would buy those Japanese cars just as well if they were made in Japan.
But in any event, it would be absolutely stupid, and totally undemocratic to allow UK 'policies' to be unduly influenced by foreign owned manufacturers established in the UK......especially as facilities have been moved to non - EU countries despite our EU membership. Businesses will ALWAYS do what they consider to be in their best interests - and rightly so - and the UK , should also act democratically - which, wrt the EU, has been made very clear.
No, what Farage called "unfinished business" isn't very clear at all.
At least , unlike yourself, I admit to being human, and therefore prone to making mistakes from time to time

Clear enough to most people I would have thought.....whilst members of the EU, not only do we have no ability to apply import tariffs that would be in our own specific interests - but we are unable to make mutually beneficial trade agreements with non-EU countries, ( where MOST of our trade is conducted).....but of course, post Brexit, (if it ever takes place), will see that flaw rectified!
But that's not what you were on about, you asked for an example of where lower [import] tariffs would hurt the UK and I said Steel. that was when you started talking about export tariffs so if you meant import tariffs what did you want to say about them in connection with them being lowered and damaging things like Steel.
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Old 04-01-2017, 16:53
andykn
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Perhaps you should take it up with an alternative source -
which quotes - After its introduction in 1970, the CFP has been synonymous with the huge decline of our fish stocks, deterioration of the environment, wasteful discarding of fish, and the destruction of Britain’s fishing industry and communities.

Geographically well placed, British and Irish waters actually account for 60 percent of the EU’s waters. To add salt to the wound, it is an embarrassing reminder the CFP did not exist until Britain joined the EU.

Which ever way you look at it - that 13% looks ridiculously low - but was undoubtedly woefully inaccurate when Heath gave them away!!
You'll have not looked at a map recently then and seen the huge stretches of water off France, Portugal, Spain and then there's the Med and parts of the Black Sea.
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Old 04-01-2017, 17:02
Steve_Holmes
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Can you link to this alternative source?
Sorry about that - I had meant to provide it in my post.....but I was being hurried up by 'her indoors'.... and forgot that basic requirement!! - Anyway, I see that somebody has already kindly obliged !
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Old 04-01-2017, 17:03
Steve_Holmes
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Thank you for that - it was remiss of me!!
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Old 04-01-2017, 17:20
Steve_Holmes
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Well, it's really their non-EU export markets. They would buy those Japanese cars just as well if they were made in Japan.
Er - they already do! However, the Japanese car manufacturing facilities are global - but Japan also have a large export market too.....although this is handicapped by the high value Yen.
No, what Farage called "unfinished business" isn't very clear at all.
?????
But that's not what you were on about, you asked for an example of where lower [import] tariffs would hurt the UK and I said Steel. that was when you started talking about export tariffs so if you meant import tariffs what did you want to say about them in connection with them being lowered and damaging things like Steel.
I was on about the UK's dominance by the EU over trade. We cannot arrange trade deals more appropriate to the UK's needs, nor even establish import tariffs on products as we see fit - we are dictated to by the EU. As I recall, you even egregiously denied that the UK could purchase food cheaper from non-EU countries if it was out of the EU - despite the inflated costs of EU food because of CAP, and it's attendant 'protectionist' tariffs on food imports.
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Old 04-01-2017, 17:41
Kiteview
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Perhaps you should take it up with an alternative source -
which quotes - After its introduction in 1970, the CFP has been synonymous with the huge decline of our fish stocks, deterioration of the environment, wasteful discarding of fish, and the destruction of Britain’s fishing industry and communities.

Geographically well placed, British and Irish waters actually account for 60 percent of the EU’s waters. To add salt to the wound, it is an embarrassing reminder the CFP did not exist until Britain joined the EU.

Which ever way you look at it - that 13% looks ridiculously low - but was undoubtedly woefully inaccurate when Heath gave them away!!
So we are going to steal Irish waters on our way out of the EU, are we?

We will presumably be using the Jolly Roger as our national flag in future...
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Old 04-01-2017, 17:52
andykn
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Er - they already do! However, the Japanese car manufacturing facilities are global - but Japan also have a large export market too.....although this is handicapped by the high value Yen.
And, in the case of the EU, quotas and high import tariffs.
?????
I was on about the UK's dominance by the EU over trade. We cannot arrange trade deals more appropriate to the UK's needs,
Give me an example.
nor even establish import tariffs on products as we see fit - we are dictated to by the EU.
Agreed by us, you mean.
As I recall, you even egregiously denied that the UK could purchase food cheaper from non-EU countries if it was out of the EU - despite the inflated costs of EU food because of CAP, and it's attendant 'protectionist' tariffs on food imports.
You recall wrong, as ever. I've always explained that the downside of cheap non EU food imports is losing our own strategically important agriculture industry. And the low pound has offset some of it.
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Old 04-01-2017, 17:53
andykn
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Thank you for that - it was remiss of me!!
What was remiss of you was taking that as a reliable source, especially when a map tells you otherwise.
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Old 04-01-2017, 18:28
Wolfman13
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Seems the view from Ireland is that hard Brexit is the most likely outcome, and whilst pushing for the CTA to remain in place, it will adhere to the EU27 negotiating position.

Border posts will be going up soon then.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/polit...area-1.2924859

The sudden resignation of Britain’s most senior diplomat in Brussels has raised fears among politicians and officials in Dublin that a hard Brexit is increasingly likely.
Sir Ivan Rogers, Britain’s ambassador to the EU, resigned yesterday amid divisions with Downing Street over Britain’s approach to forthcoming negotiations on the UK’s departure from the EU.


The Irish delegation asked the commission negotiators “to reassure other member states that Ireland is not ‘pre-negotiating’ nor is it enjoying any special relationship. Ireland is part of EU 27 and will negotiate as EU 27”, the report said.
At least we know know where we all stand regarding the border.
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Old 04-01-2017, 21:21
Resonance
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Of course, unless you believe that countries who aren't in the single market are unable to export any services to the EU.
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Old 04-01-2017, 22:59
Miasima Goria
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At least we know know where we all stand regarding the border.
No one really knows - remember the border is once again disputed after decades of the issue being sidelined.


Of course, unless you believe that countries who aren't in the single market are unable to export any services to the EU.
It's not a matter of what I believe, but what the EU would decide to do. Once the UK is outside the EU, why would you expect it to be allowed to sell service within the single market?
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Old Yesterday, 01:36
Resonance
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No one really knows - remember the border is once again disputed after decades of the issue being sidelined.




It's not a matter of what I believe, but what the EU would decide to do. Once the UK is outside the EU, why would you expect it to be allowed to sell service within the single market?
Why wouldn't I? Countries outside the single market already sell services to the EU.
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Old Yesterday, 06:17
Miasima Goria
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In shock news, May is telling the EU that they will be cut adrift of the UK if er, they don't agree to giving the UK full control of its borders. So basically, that must mean a hard border in Ireland?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...single-market/
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Old Yesterday, 20:11
Steve_Holmes
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You'll have not looked at a map recently then and seen the huge stretches of water off France, Portugal, Spain and then there's the Med and parts of the Black Sea.
Well the Med borders 21 countries......but only 8 of them are members of the EU - and the maps certainly indicate that the UK and Ireland have a very large portion of EU territorial waters......but I would have to admit that it doesn't look like 60% - albeit, it seems sufficiently large enough to cause upset to the majority of UK fishermen - most of whom apparently intended to vote leave according to a pre-referendum survey.

http://ukandeu.ac.uk/british-fisherm...-eu-heres-why/
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Old Yesterday, 20:36
andykn
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Well the Med borders 21 countries......but only 8 of them are members of the EU - and the maps certainly indicate that the UK and Ireland have a very large portion of EU territorial waters......but I would have to admit that it doesn't look like 60% - albeit, it seems sufficiently large enough to cause upset to the majority of UK fishermen - most of whom apparently intended to vote leave according to a pre-referendum survey.

http://ukandeu.ac.uk/british-fisherm...-eu-heres-why/
There's going to be a lot of disappointed fishermen. The century long decline in European fishing won't be changed one iota by us leaving.
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