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Guardian: EU agrees to push UK into Hard Brexit


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Old 20-11-2016, 11:14
Andrew1954
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I can't see Most Favoured Nation rules, which prevent the EU charging us punitive tariffs, being changed.
Actually this reminds me of an interesting question and one I don't know the answer to.

The most favoured nation rule seems to imply that post a "hard" Brexit we might reduce tarrifs to the rest of the world, but that will include the EU. So the EU will be able to sell us goods at a tariff rate less than they will charge us. Is this right?
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Old 20-11-2016, 11:18
James2001
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Why do so many leavers think we can have all the benefits of membership with none of the commitments?
Because they're stuck in a 1950s world where they think Britain still has an empire, is still important in the world and everyone will roll over for us.
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Old 20-11-2016, 11:19
Landis
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So what do we do to make up the Billions in lost revenue?

Scrap the NHS?

Easy to say "let's get on with it" - but how are you going to make up the lost revenue?
Phillip Hammond will tell Leavers this week that they have voted to make themselves poorer.
Leavers are insisting that they knew what they were voting for.

If that is correct.... it means that Cameron's view - that Leavers are "self harmers" was an accurate view.
If Leavers are Self Harmers......making up the lost revenue is - by definition - not on the agenda.
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Old 20-11-2016, 11:23
MargMck
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Because they're stuck in a 1950s world where they think Britain still has an empire, is still important in the world and everyone will roll over for us.
Trite rubbish that is actually.... so last century.
We have no interest in an empire, do not expect anyone to roll over for us. It's hard for you to grasp, I can see that, but actually leaving the EU is radical and forward-looking.
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Old 20-11-2016, 11:35
JDF
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Not really. Leave was based of a pack of lies to swing the vote.

Only around 5% voted for a Brexit that would destroy the British economy.

Most others voted based on the lies about immigration, which they now discover won't fall, or the additional billions Brexit would save, but people are now realising Brexit will cost the UK trillions.
And Remain side also told lies.
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Old 20-11-2016, 11:36
andykn
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Actually this reminds me of an interesting question and one I don't know the answer to.

The most favoured nation rule seems to imply that post a "hard" Brexit we might reduce tarrifs to the rest of the world, but that will include the EU. So the EU will be able to sell us goods at a tariff rate less than they will charge us. Is this right?
Yes. The EU charges 10% on car imports so if we left without a deal and the EU didn't change its rate it would have to charge us 10% on cars going from the UK to the EU.

We can set any rate we like. So we could reciprocate the EU's 10% rate or the US ~2% rate or Japan's >2%. But we'd have to apply that rate to basically everyone including the EU.
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Old 20-11-2016, 11:36
andykn
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Because they're stuck in a 1950s world where they think Britain still has an empire, is still important in the world and everyone will roll over for us.
Yet their starting point is often that the UK has too little influence just in the EU.
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Old 20-11-2016, 11:38
andykn
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Trite rubbish that is actually.... so last century.
We have no interest in an empire, do not expect anyone to roll over for us. It's hard for you to grasp, I can see that, but actually leaving the EU is radical and forward-looking.
So why do leavers express such surprise and anger that the EU will not let us have our cake and eat it?
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Old 20-11-2016, 11:40
James2001
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Yet their starting point is often that the UK has too little influence just in the EU.
If they feel we have too little influence in the EU, surely we'd be even worse off outside of it?
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Old 20-11-2016, 11:45
Miasima Goria
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Yet their starting point is often that the UK has too little influence just in the EU.
Without the EU, the EU will have a powerful central bank, a unified defence and anti-terror policy, a massive market where the constituent countries will generally agree on things - can't see why the want the UK out sharpish.
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Old 20-11-2016, 11:48
andykn
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If they feel we have too little influence in the EU, surely we'd be even worse off outside of it?
Ah, that's the logical conclusion...
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Old 20-11-2016, 11:51
James2001
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Ah, that's the logical conclusion...
Since when was Brexit about anything resembling logic though?
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Old 20-11-2016, 11:55
HopesandDreams
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So why do leavers express such surprise and anger that the EU will not let us have our cake and eat it?
I most certainly do not expect anything from the EU, their position on the UK has been crystal even before the vote to leave happened, case in point, the farce of Cameron's renegotiation deal, and the contemptuous attitude of Juncker and Co.

If the story of the EU forcing a hard brexit is true, and I doubt that frankly, but if true, good, let's get on with this thing.
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Old 20-11-2016, 12:03
Mr_XcX
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Hopefully this lowers London's house prices and stops Millionaires buying up all the properties. Move over to Dublin or Frankfurt.

My Brother has been looking for a home in London for around 2 years and still cannot find one. Its a disgrace.
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Old 20-11-2016, 12:04
Dacco
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Without the EU, the EU will have a powerful central bank, a unified defence and anti-terror policy, a massive market where the constituent countries will generally agree on things
Of everything that could be used to describe the EU, none is contained within the above paragraph.
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Old 20-11-2016, 12:08
JDF
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I most certainly do not expect anything from the EU, their position on the UK has been crystal even before the vote to leave happened, case in point, the farce of Cameron's renegotiation deal, and the contemptuous attitude of Juncker and Co.

If the story of the EU forcing a hard brexit is true, and I doubt that frankly, but if true, good, let's get on with this thing.
I dont think the eu ever liked the UK .
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Old 20-11-2016, 12:14
Miasima Goria
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Of everything that could be used to describe the EU, none is contained within the above paragraph.
It will have them within a few years of the UK leaving.
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Old 20-11-2016, 12:14
jmclaugh
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It all is rhetoric at the mo and not even new rhetoric so until article 50 is triggered and negotiations start who knows what the agreement will be.
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Old 20-11-2016, 12:15
andykn
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I most certainly do not expect anything from the EU, their position on the UK has been crystal even before the vote to leave happened, case in point, the farce of Cameron's renegotiation deal, and the contemptuous attitude of Juncker and Co.

If the story of the EU forcing a hard brexit is true, and I doubt that frankly, but if true, good, let's get on with this thing.
Not letting the UK have its cake and eat it, all the benefits of EU membership with none of the drawbacks is not a "contemptuous attitude" - at least not from the EU.
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Old 20-11-2016, 12:16
andykn
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Hopefully this lowers London's house prices and stops Millionaires buying up all the properties. Move over to Dublin or Frankfurt.

My Brother has been looking for a home in London for around 2 years and still cannot find one. Its a disgrace.
Unfortunately it looks likes the fall in Sterling, making house prices cheaper for overseas buyers, may be raising London house prices.
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Old 20-11-2016, 12:17
andykn
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It all is rhetoric at the mo and not even new rhetoric so until article 50 is triggered and negotiations start who knows what the agreement will be.
I think quite a few of us are fairly sure it won't involve having our cake and eating it.
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Old 20-11-2016, 12:18
James_Orton
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Actually this reminds me of an interesting question and one I don't know the answer to.

The most favoured nation rule seems to imply that post a "hard" Brexit we might reduce tarrifs to the rest of the world, but that will include the EU. So the EU will be able to sell us goods at a tariff rate less than they will charge us. Is this right?
WE have no tariffs to the EU currently. Once we leave we will probably have tariffs that are close to the EU's to the rest of the world.

If we lower most of the food tariffs that the EU has, then we will probably end up with cheaper food at the cost of our farmers who rely on subsidies.

We could drop all tariffs if we so decided and become a fully trading nation, letting uncompetitive businesses die but to do that we would need very powerful anti-competitive legislation in place and very strong standard laws that other countries would need to abide with to trade with us.
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Old 20-11-2016, 12:19
Mr_XcX
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Unfortunately it looks likes the fall in Sterling, making house prices cheaper for overseas buyers, may be raising London house prices.
Can't get much worse. The rents are ridiculous. Sterling has been overvalued so things will balance out over time.
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Old 20-11-2016, 12:19
James_Orton
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Unfortunately it looks likes the fall in Sterling, making house prices cheaper for overseas buyers, may be raising London house prices.
Housing in London is currently falling. If Brexit is so bad it should reach polish prices by Jan 2018.

Brexit will certainly lower housing prices in London but push them up in the more industrial areas due to a weaker pound allowing for better exports.
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Old 20-11-2016, 12:20
John146
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Not letting the UK have its cake and eat it, all the benefits of EU membership with none of the drawbacks is not a "contemptuous attitude" - at least not from the EU.
Now where have I seen Ms May asking Mr Juncker 'We would like to leave the EU, but can we keep the benefits we get from the EU'?

Nowhere because the question has never been asked
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