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Guardian: EU agrees to push UK into Hard Brexit


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Old 20-11-2016, 12:20
James_Orton
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Can't get much worse. The rents are ridiculous. Sterling has been overvalued so things will balance out over time.
Yes it will. The finance industry in the UK is the equivalent to Germany in the EU. The government policies and tax regime are centered around that one entity to the expense of others.
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Old 20-11-2016, 12:27
Cheetah666
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-farage-le-pen

"European leaders have come to a 27-nation consensus that a “hard Brexit” is likely to be the only way to see off future populist insurgencies, which could lead to the break-up of the European Union."

There may not be any negotiations yet but it seems the EU's stance is now hardening as the triggering of Article50 is nearing, The EU president (whoever that is?) already told us it was 'Hard Brexit or no Brexit' and it seems the 27 have now all signed up to this plan of thought too.

The PM surely won't back down on Border Controls (as she's already stated) so it seems very clear what's going to happen.
This is just the EU restating the same position its held since day 1. I don't know why the Brexiters always respond with talk of the EU punishing the UK or intimidating countries not to leave, its just common sense that you can't leave a club and still expect to avail of all their facilities.
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Old 20-11-2016, 12:28
jmclaugh
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I think quite a few of us are fairly sure it won't involve having our cake and eating it.
That is very probable but then we don't have it now.
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Old 20-11-2016, 12:28
MargMck
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So why do leavers express such surprise and anger that the EU will not let us have our cake and eat it?
What surprise and anger? It's far more a case of rolleyes and "Whatever".
Only some soft Remainers are now looking for a "cake and eat it" answer, by far the majority of those who voted Leave have removing EU control at the top of their list, so that we can decide future levels of 'free movement', trade terms etc.
Most are simply saying 'Bring it on' if the EU masters think that's the way to stop other countries leaving their treasured organisation.
The real power is with the money, and when that talks any possible deals will be done.
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Old 20-11-2016, 12:34
Beanybun
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We know that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We had this debate before the referendum remember.

All the warnings, all the scares and we still voted out.

That decision must be respected, lets get the hell on with it, geez.
Yeah, right, let's all go live in a cave and paint on the walls.

unbelievable...
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Old 20-11-2016, 12:40
MargMck
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Yeah, right, let's all go live in a cave and paint on the walls.

unbelievable...
No, what turned out to be unbelievable was Project Fear... you know, stuff like we'll all be living in caves.
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Old 20-11-2016, 12:41
Doctor_Wibble
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If we lower most of the food tariffs that the EU has, then we will probably end up with cheaper food at the cost of our farmers who rely on subsidies.
Or potentially pay a more realistic price for our food and thereby reduce the amount of subsidy that they need - or at the very least look at moving towards something where the price reflects the costs and the production is sustainable.
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Old 20-11-2016, 12:45
Mr Oleo Strut
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You are wrong. I was a remainer and all I want is a fair deal representing all shades of public opinion. I will not tolerate a secret and devious deal thrown together by the Tory party just to serve their own interests and help their business mates line their pockets. That is the issue at the heart of this business, and it's not going away. So I don't expect the EU to help the Tory party cherry-pick the deal that suits them best, they will make it as difficult as they need too, and we'd better get used to it and point the finger of blame at David Cameron, our worst- ever PM, who got us into this shambles and then ran away to hide. A contemtible public-school coward.
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Old 20-11-2016, 12:45
andykn
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Now where have I seen Ms May asking Mr Juncker 'We would like to leave the EU, but can we keep the benefits we get from the EU'?

Nowhere because the question has never been asked
But plenty of leavers expect it and are bizarrely surprised when the EU point out it's not reasonable to expect.
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Old 20-11-2016, 12:46
andykn
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Can't get much worse. The rents are ridiculous. Sterling has been overvalued so things will balance out over time.
But one of the reasons given for Sterling overvaluation was Brexit.
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Old 20-11-2016, 12:46
HopesandDreams
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Not letting the UK have its cake and eat it, all the benefits of EU membership with none of the drawbacks is not a "contemptuous attitude" - at least not from the EU.
Read my post again, contemptuous attitude I refer to was at Cameron's negotiations, not presently, but the label certainly fits now, and they wonder why a Brexit happened, they never learn.
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Old 20-11-2016, 12:47
andykn
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That is very probable but then we don't have it now.
We do, barrier free access for 45% of our exports is one benefit.
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Old 20-11-2016, 12:49
John146
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But plenty of leavers expect it and are bizarrely surprised when the EU point out it's not reasonable to expect.
I would not expect the EU to give us any benefits of membership when we are not contributing anything to the EU, and, I suspect that many leavers also understand this to be the result of our leaving
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Old 20-11-2016, 12:50
Mr_XcX
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Yes it will. The finance industry in the UK is the equivalent to Germany in the EU. The government policies and tax regime are centered around that one entity to the expense of others.
The economy is too reliant on financial services. It's time things changed and the government look after all the UK. We're sick of London being catered for and the rest left behind.
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Old 20-11-2016, 12:56
jmclaugh
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We do, barrier free access for 45% of our exports is one benefit.
That isn't having your cake and eating it as we pay handsomely for that access by subsidising most of the other member states and have to abide by EU law and permit FoM.

Now whether you think you get a bit more cake to eat being in the EU as opposed to out of it is ano matter but a referendum in June gave us the electorate's answer to that.
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Old 20-11-2016, 12:57
Beanybun
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The economy is too reliant on financial services. It's time things changed and the government look after all the UK. We're sick of London being catered for and the rest left behind.
What a ridiculous post.

London funds much the U.K. because there is no coal, no steel or such industries, the world moves on.

Meanwhile, I'll see you back in your adullamite cave, weaving pants on your spinning Jenny...
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Old 20-11-2016, 13:07
Mr_XcX
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What a ridiculous post.

London funds much the U.K. because there is no coal, no steel or such industries, the world moves on.

Meanwhile, I'll see you back in your adullamite cave, weaving pants on your spinning Jenny...
Go back on Bob Geldofs Yacht.

People are not happy and want change. As for London funds much of the UK nonsense, what in? High Speed 2 that nobody in Yorkshire wants. Another Heathrow runway.

Get real.
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Old 20-11-2016, 13:13
Andrew1954
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Yes. The EU charges 10% on car imports so if we left without a deal and the EU didn't change its rate it would have to charge us 10% on cars going from the UK to the EU.

We can set any rate we like. So we could reciprocate the EU's 10% rate or the US ~2% rate or Japan's >2%. But we'd have to apply that rate to basically everyone including the EU.
OK, so my understanding of what the most favoured nation rule means was correct.

I realised this some months before the referendum (I voted Brexit) but was surprised that I didn't hear Remain campaigners make this point. This was surprising because leading Brexiters were making the point that we could set the tariffs lower, which would make imported goods cheaper, which is true. Yet such a policy would put our exports at a competitive disadvantage to imports from the EU.
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Old 20-11-2016, 13:13
Nodger
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Go back on Bob Geldofs Yacht.

People are not happy and want change. As for London funds much of the UK nonsense, what in? High Speed 2 that nobody in Yorkshire wants. Another Heathrow runway.

Get real.
I think more people are more aware than ever before just how much the entire of society (the world even) revolves around 'money' and not for the masses actual benefit (versus perceived benefit). People are saying 'no' there must be another way.
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Old 20-11-2016, 13:18
Eurostar
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....... And this is the political union Remainers still want us to be a member of!
It would be a bit like quitting membership of your local golf club or gym but then announcing you wanted to carry on using all the facilities anyway as if nothing has happened. It's not hard to imagine why the other members might have a problem with that.
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Old 20-11-2016, 13:24
jmclaugh
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It would be a bit like quitting membership of your local golf club or gym but then announcing you wanted to carry on using all the facilities anyway as if nothing has happened. It's not hard to imagine why the other members might have a problem with that.
Amusingly it seems some in the EU are suggesting having given up membership of the golf club we should still pay for their new club house as they'd budgeted to have our membership fees to help finance it. Plus of course most members get their membership fees paid for them and a free set of golf clubs by a handful of members such as the UK.
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Old 20-11-2016, 13:26
Mr_XcX
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I think more people are more aware than ever before just how much the entire of society (the world even) revolves around 'money' and not for the masses actual benefit (versus perceived benefit). People are saying 'no' there must be another way.
Exactly.

It's all about GDP and Growth. More hamburgers sold than last year etc!! More, More, More...

Yet, they fail to realise it is only benefiting a small section of society. People have seen their real wage reduced over the last years to a starvation wage. Many cannot even afford their own homes / rents and living with their parents.

Globalism is not working, we're used to the same promises during each election. Brexit / Trump is a way to say, we want things changed and fast!!!
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Old 20-11-2016, 13:31
jonner101
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It would be a bit like quitting membership of your local golf club or gym but then announcing you wanted to carry on using all the facilities anyway as if nothing has happened. It's not hard to imagine why the other members might have a problem with that.
No,

The analogy would be more like if you're a golf ball manufacturer then you can only sell to that club by being a member and paying the membership fee and are then told that your prices for other golf clubs have to be approved by this 'super golf club'

Add to the fact that most members get in for free and your fee is subsidising theirs.
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Old 20-11-2016, 13:35
Nodger
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Exactly.

It's all about GDP and Growth. More hamburgers sold than last year etc!! More, More, More...

Yet, they fail to realise it is only benefiting a small section of society. People have seen their real wage reduced over the last years to a starvation wage. Many cannot even afford their own homes / rents and living with their parents.

Globalism is not working, we're used to the same promises during each election. Brexit / Trump is a way to say, we want things changed and fast!!!
Debt, debt, debt... as soon as someone becomes adult the spivs gather, hassle and abuse, "you want some debt, we have debt, good rates, only the rest of your life servicing it while we make your ability to service it harder, but you must have this debt, in fact you need it, you'll be nothing without it, a social outcast without an Apple book resting on your 'i saw you coming' table bought on the never and just how will you earn enough to service the debt if you don't take out the debt in the first place, not to heavy an initial debt plan first though, just enough to normalise the future debt you need... and so on..."
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Old 20-11-2016, 13:36
Alrightmate
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Let's get on with it then.
I was just about to post exactly the same thing.
Okay, that makes things clear, then lets get on with it.
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