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End of FTA French tv on 5W this week |
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#26 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 132
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hoi,
OCTAGON SF4008 4K UHD 2160P DVB-S2X will be end 2016 in the shops http://www.octagon-germany.eu/octago...-look-openatv/ |
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#27 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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Thanks 2night. In fact it's suggested that TF1 on 33 deg E is using a very minor variant of DVB-S2, with a FEC of something like 25/36, and that some very recent receivers have no trouble picking it up correctly. It's also suggested that other DVB-S2 receivers may well be capable IF they have a patch of some sort to enable 25/36 (or whatever it is).
I haven't tried with my TM5402 M3 yet, but will try and get a dish on 33 deg E during the week..... |
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#28 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Worcs., UK
Posts: 251
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Quote:
Are they making them into pay channels??
Maybe rights issues (or to make rights costs cheaper by restricting coverage)?? Patrick N Worcs |
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#29 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Paris and Royan (France)
Posts: 448
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Quote:
Interesting. Thanks 2night.
I can find absolutely no commercially available receiver for DVB-S2X. Do they exist? It seems that at least one very recent 4k TV supports DVB-S2X after software update, according to a post on TVNT.net. No more precisions so far. What is sure is that PC cards exist from TBS that support DVB-S2X (but not multistream): -model TBS6222 (dual tuner, supports DVB-S, S2, S2X, T, T2, C, C2 and ISDB-T), -model TBS6228 (single tuner, supports same standards). The first costs 149€, the second 119€. The UHD demo channel on Astra1 (11552H) now uses DVB-S2X since mid november. http://fr.kingofsat.net/pos-19.2E.php In fact contrarily to what I wrote on tvnt.net, the FEC is not the only difference but also the error correction algorithm differs, so it's not possible to receive these transmissions with a standard DVB-S2 receiver with only a firmware update. |
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#30 |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Leicester
Posts: 2,964
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Quote:
Thanks 2night. In fact it's suggested that TF1 on 33 deg E is using a very minor variant of DVB-S2, with a FEC of something like 25/36, and that some very recent receivers have no trouble picking it up correctly. It's also suggested that other DVB-S2 receivers may well be capable IF they have a patch of some sort to enable 25/36 (or whatever it is).
I haven't tried with my TM5402 M3 yet, but will try and get a dish on 33 deg E during the week..... |
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#31 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,496
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Marti S - thanks.
Probably best to let the dust settle a bit and prices to come down on all this modern gear..... |
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#32 |
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 14
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Quote:
To add insult to injury it appears that TF1 on 9 deg E is also a casualty of the French craze with suppressing free to air. The M6 stable of channels is still there on 12.034 GHz but TF1 and sister stations TMC etc have left.
This is starting to get a little irritating..... |
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#33 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,496
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Well at least you didn't flash the cash! It is very sad indeed that France no longer has a full international FTA voice (at least not one of great quality that reflects what the French are actually *watching*). I know that there are things like news channels and TV Monde 5 but they're not the same as having the domestic channels.
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#34 |
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 14
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Deleted, I will make a new thread.
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#35 |
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 900
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Quote:
To add insult to injury it appears that TF1 on 9 deg E is also a casualty of the French craze with suppressing free to air. The M6 stable of channels is still there on 12.034 GHz but TF1 and sister stations TMC etc have left.
This is starting to get a little irritating..... I am now wondering if I can get a TNT card to work in my ET9000 Linux receiver, or whether it would make sense to try and buy a TNT receiver in Annecy which I will pass through in a few days time. |
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#36 |
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 900
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Quote:
This year has had positives and negatives for FTA French TV on satellite. While it's a shame that these FTA DVB-S/DVB-S2 feeds have disappeared, we've gained all 6 TNT multiplexes as FTA multistream.
I've been able to move away from using a TNT Sat at all and now just use the multistreams via my PC with TBS satellite card running TVHeadend. They can then be watched on the various Raspberry Pis and Wetek Plays round my house running Kodi. Also exactly which TBS card do you have? I am wondering if DVBViewer can do the same as TVHeadend. |
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#37 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,496
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I know I'm not Adam but the freqs in quesion are on 5W
11509 MHz H 12648 MHz V http://www.lyngsat.com/Eutelsat-5-West-A.html They manage - using a technique called multistream which grew out of Newtec - to squeeze much more capacity out of a frequency whilst rendering it invisible to anything other than specialised receivers and the receiver cards mentioned. These "professional" feeds are used to bring the channels to the terrestrial TV network transmitters so that they can be broadcast on UHF to the general public. They aren't actually scrambled (other than the Canal + channels) but don't need to be because so few people can get them. It's a route I'd like to take but my computer skills and patience simply aren't up to it, so I'm waiting for another solution.... In the meantime I have both Fransat and TNTsat, but it irks me more than I can say that I am no longer able to receive the main channels FTA on my Technomate 5402M3, particularly as I pay the French redevance and am damned if I'm going to have some oh-so-precious-rights-holder telling me what I can and can't watch in Britain when I have already paid for it in France! |
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#38 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Paris and Royan (France)
Posts: 448
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Quote:
I know I'm not Adam but the freqs in question are on 5W
11509 MHz H 12648 MHz V http://www.lyngsat.com/Eutelsat-5-West-A.html They manage - using a technique called multistream which grew out of Newtec - to squeeze much more capacity out of a frequency whilst rendering it invisible to anything other than specialised receivers and the receiver cards mentioned. These "professional" feeds are used to bring the channels to the terrestrial TV network transmitters so that they can be broadcast on UHF to the general public. They aren't actually scrambled (other than the Canal + channels) but don't need to be because so few people can get them. In the case of french TNT channels, each of these two transponders transport 3 of the 6 TNT multiplexes exactly in the form they will be rebroadcast by terrestrial transmitters. This has the advantage of simplifying the processing at the transmitter (sometimes very small ones) as they do not have to demultiplex/remultiplex but only to demodulate the DVB-S2 streams and remodulate them in DVB-T. Another more recent variant of DVB-S2 is called DVB-S2X: this one allows an increase of capacity of about 10% in equal receiving conditions by use of a smaller roll-of factor, a finer granularity of the FEC ratios and more performant error correction algorithms. To day it is used by the channels of the TF1 group broadcast in the clear on 33°E. There is another card of TBS which allows to demodulate DVB-S2X but unfortunetely it does not support multistream. These two techniques (DVB-S2X and multistream) can be combined and of course they will be combined sooner or later to optimise capacity and most probably TBS will offer a card which will allow to receive DVB-S2X multistream. |
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#39 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Worcester
Posts: 4,850
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Quote:
Please could you be more specific as to where you receive these streams from. i.e. what satellite, frequency etc?
Also exactly which TBS card do you have? I am wondering if DVBViewer can do the same as TVHeadend. As Martin has said, the frequencies are 11509H (MIS1, MIS4 and MIS6) and 12648V (MIS1, MIS2 and MIS3), on 5W. Due to the high FEC in 8PSK (8/9) I need an 80cm dish to keep them locked here in the Midlands. On a 60cm they break up even in good weather. Quote:
I know I'm not Adam but the freqs in quesion are on 5W
11509 MHz H 12648 MHz V http://www.lyngsat.com/Eutelsat-5-West-A.html They manage - using a technique called multistream which grew out of Newtec - to squeeze much more capacity out of a frequency whilst rendering it invisible to anything other than specialised receivers and the receiver cards mentioned. These "professional" feeds are used to bring the channels to the terrestrial TV network transmitters so that they can be broadcast on UHF to the general public. They aren't actually scrambled (other than the Canal + channels) but don't need to be because so few people can get them. It's a route I'd like to take but my computer skills and patience simply aren't up to it, so I'm waiting for another solution.... In the meantime I have both Fransat and TNTsat, but it irks me more than I can say that I am no longer able to receive the main channels FTA on my Technomate 5402M3, particularly as I pay the French redevance and am damned if I'm going to have some oh-so-precious-rights-holder telling me what I can and can't watch in Britain when I have already paid for it in France! I've found with Linux that the best way for me has always been to start from a fresh install as then it's less confusing to narrow down when things go wrong! |
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#40 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,496
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Well Adam792 what you are offering (set up guide) seems beyond the call of duty but if you were prepared to do so it would give me the confidence to splash out on the card.....
Have a good Christmas in the meantime! |
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#41 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Worcester
Posts: 4,850
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Here's my setup guide to getting any of the multistream capable TBS cards (I use the TBS6905 and that works) working under Ubuntu. I use Ubuntu 16.04 Xenial -
1. Install Ubuntu to your PC in the normal way (either create a USB key or a disk). 2. Once you're up and running the next step is to get the TBS tuner cards recognised by the operating system. You need a specific set of the open source drivers for this as for some reason the regular open source ones and the official ones from TBS do not support multistream properly. a) First we need to make sure the system is all up to date. Open up terminal and run - Code:
sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get upgrade sudo reboot Code:
sudo apt-get autoremove c) Now the next step is to install a few packages that we'll need to compile and install the drivers (without them the process will fail and you end up trawling through error messages for hours, which isn't fun.) Code:
sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get install git kernel-package linux-headers-`uname -r` gcc libproc-processtable-perl libdigest-sha-perl patch patchutils But, I'll write the commands you need to put into the terminal here too - Code:
git clone https://github.com/tbsdtv/media_build.git git clone --depth=1 https://github.com/tbsdtv/linux_media.git -b latest ./media cd media_build sudo make dir DIR=../media sudo make distclean sudo make -j4 sudo make install Code:
sudo reboot Code:
dmesg | grep dvb Code:
[ 1.842469] dvbdev: DVB: registering new adapter (SAA716x dvb adapter) [ 1.842884] dvbdev: DVB: registering new adapter (TBSECP3 DVB Adapter) [ 2.022635] dvbdev: DVB: registering new adapter (SAA716x dvb adapter) [ 2.035544] dvbdev: DVB: registering new adapter (TBSECP3 DVB Adapter) [ 2.156014] dvbdev: DVB: registering new adapter (TBSECP3 DVB Adapter) [ 2.303302] dvbdev: DVB: registering new adapter (TBSECP3 DVB Adapter) 3. Now the drivers are all installed, we can tune the channels in. You can use whatever software you want for this, but I use TVHeadend as it's a decent piece of backend software, and I use it to feed a couple of Kodi boxes round the house. I can go into getting TVHeadend set up if anyone is interested as well! |
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#42 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,496
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That's a very helpful start Adam792. I'll get a card ordered in the New Year, I do have someone in the village who is good with Linux and with the help of your notes I suspect that between us we could get it going. Give me a few days though....
Very much appreciated, you've put a lot of work into that. I would dearly like to get it working so this is the spur I need. Cheers, and Happy New Year. |
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#43 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,496
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I see that the 6982 has been discontinued. Given that at over 200 quid I don't really need the four tuner job, does anyone know whether the 6902 does the same job as the 6982 that Adam mentions? It's billed as being the replacement for the 6982 but before I part with 99.99 it would be good to know that it's the right thing.
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#44 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Paris and Royan (France)
Posts: 448
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Quote:
Here's my setup guide to getting any of the multistream capable TBS cards (I use the TBS6905 and that works) .
Thanks for these indications and happy new year ! According to the description of TBS, support of multistream is not mentioned for the TBS6905 (nor for the 6902). http://www.tbsdtv.com/products/tbs69...pcie-card.html http://www.tbsdtv.com/products/tbs69...pcie-card.html According to their site, the only ones which supports it explicitely is the TBS5925 /6925: http://www.tbsdtv.com/products/tbs59...tuner-usb.html http://shop.tbsdtv.com/tbs-6925-pcie...card-p-32.html Do you know which TBS single or dual tuner cards support multistream even if it's not mentioned in their spec ? |
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#45 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Worcester
Posts: 4,850
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Quote:
I see that the 6982 has been discontinued. Given that at over 200 quid I don't really need the four tuner job, does anyone know whether the 6902 does the same job as the 6982 that Adam mentions? It's billed as being the replacement for the 6982 but before I part with 99.99 it would be good to know that it's the right thing.
Quote:
Hi Adam,
Thanks for these indications and happy new year ! According to the description of TBS, support of multistream is not mentioned for the TBS6905 (nor for the 6902). http://www.tbsdtv.com/products/tbs69...pcie-card.html http://www.tbsdtv.com/products/tbs69...pcie-card.html According to their site, the only ones which supports it explicitely is the TBS5925 /6925: http://www.tbsdtv.com/products/tbs59...tuner-usb.html http://shop.tbsdtv.com/tbs-6925-pcie...card-p-32.html Do you know which TBS single or dual tuner cards support multistream even if it's not mentioned in their spec ? On that page for the TBS6905, it's mentioned as "Multi Input Stream support". I got it wrong when I mentioned the 6982 sorry - I actually have the TBS6281 which is a terrestrial card. The 6905 is my only satellite one. The 6902 doesn't support multistream. The 6903 does though (they usually list them as "professional" on the TBS website, but they didn't for the 6905 for some reason). TBS6905, TBS6908, TBS6983 and TBS6903 are all cards that support it. The USB TBS5925 and TBS5927 do too.
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#46 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,496
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Hmmm - but thank you Adam792. I'll go and look in the piggy bank, it's a bit more than I was hoping (although I realise that four tuners isn't going to be cheap). Will need a few days to think about it but in the meantime renewed thanks!
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#47 |
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Worcester
Posts: 4,850
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No problem!
The 6903 and 6983 are the two tuner versions but only seem to be around £20 cheaper than the 6905 from what I can see. They all work with multistream though. My TBS6905 locks all the French and Italian services on 5W perfectly; nice and stable in the worst weather I've seen so far (pretty heavy rain) since I've been watching them, on my bog standard 80cm dish. In normal conditions I get ~15dB SNR on both of the TNT transponders. |
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