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Old 26-11-2016, 18:13
Lord Smexy
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You obviously stopped watching Doctor Who in 2008. Every episode of Who in the last 3 years is worse than L&M. You think Robot of Sherwood, In The Forest of the Night, Into the Dalek, Kill the Moon, Heaven Sent, that one about the leaf and singing, that one about the guy in the Tardis thinking he was an android, Widow and Wardrobe, End of Time to name just a few, are better than L&M??? Wow!
I would definitely definitely rate at least 98% of Doctor Who better than Love and Monsters. The only episode you listed that comes close to being as bad as it is In the Forest of the Night. But Heaven Sent? It's no wonder you make me laugh.
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Old 26-11-2016, 19:03
Granny McSmith
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I would definitely definitely rate at least 98% of Doctor Who better than Love and Monsters. The only episode you listed that comes close to being as bad as it is In the Forest of the Night. But Heaven Sent? It's no wonder you make me laugh.
You did notice Widow and Wardrobe was in the list, didn't you?

Do you seriously think that was better than Love and Monsters? Be honest, now.
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Old 26-11-2016, 19:17
Lord Smexy
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You did notice Widow and Wardrobe was in the list, didn't you?

Do you seriously think that was better than Love and Monsters? Be honest, now.
I do indeed. A poor episode, undoubtedly, but one that at least had heart and a message I could appreciate, rather than the repetitive "normal life is so normal" theme that ran through the first few series. As much as I disliked Widow and Wardrobe, it always touched me that the Doctor was making the effort to give these children such a wonderful Christmas after they lost their father... as opposed to oral relations with a concrete slab that I think was supposed to be a funny line at some point.

Also, Bill Bailey is a little more entertaining, and a little less overbearing than Peter Kay. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, but drama isn't his thing.
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Old 26-11-2016, 19:30
Boz_Lowdownl
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Time and the Rani?

I don't want to defend L&M or anything, but at least it sounded good in practise and had potential.

And then in the wider scope of television you get things like Skins which make L&M look like a masterpiece by comparison.
I would definitely definitely rate at least 98% of Doctor Who better than Love and Monsters. The only episode you listed that comes close to being as bad as it is In the Forest of the Night. But Heaven Sent? It's no wonder you make me laugh.
I do indeed. A poor episode, undoubtedly, but one that at least had heart and a message I could appreciate, rather than the repetitive "normal life is so normal" theme that ran through the first few series. As much as I disliked Widow and Wardrobe, it always touched me that the Doctor was making the effort to give these children such a wonderful Christmas after they lost their father... as opposed to oral relations with a concrete slab that I think was supposed to be a funny line at some point.

Also, Bill Bailey is a little more entertaining, and a little less overbearing than Peter Kay. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, but drama isn't his thing.
IMO, your taste in television is beyond bizarre. I would rather watch paint dry than Heaven Sent, it is less boring. But I am so pleased that I manage to make you laugh.

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Old 26-11-2016, 19:45
Michael_Eve
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Heaven Sent is a classic.

(runs)

(runs back in)

Actually, Boz mentioned TDTWATW and End of Time, hardly classics I can't wait to rewatch, and I didn't rate 'In the Forest...' or 'Kill The Moon' much, either. Robot of Sherwood was quite good fun, I thought. And I see 'Night Terrors' was mentioned earlier in the thread. I like that one myself. Whatever floats yer boat, innit.
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Old 26-11-2016, 20:08
Boz_Lowdownl
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Heaven Sent is a classic.

(runs)

(runs back in)

Actually, Boz mentioned TDTWATW and End of Time, hardly classics I can't wait to rewatch, and I didn't rate 'In the Forest...' or 'Kill The Moon' much, either. Robot of Sherwood was quite good fun, I thought. And I see 'Night Terrors' was mentioned earlier in the thread. I like that one myself. Whatever floats yer boat, innit.
Indeed!
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Old 26-11-2016, 20:15
St Dabeoc
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I do indeed. A poor episode, undoubtedly, but one that at least had heart and a message I could appreciate, rather than the repetitive "normal life is so normal" theme that ran through the first few series. As much as I disliked Widow and Wardrobe, it always touched me that the Doctor was making the effort to give these children such a wonderful Christmas after they lost their father... as opposed to oral relations with a concrete slab that I think was supposed to be a funny line at some point.

Also, Bill Bailey is a little more entertaining, and a little less overbearing than Peter Kay. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, but drama isn't his thing.
who was dropping bombs on German children. At Christmas!!
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Old 26-11-2016, 20:42
Granny McSmith
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I do indeed. A poor episode, undoubtedly, but one that at least had heart and a message I could appreciate, rather than the repetitive "normal life is so normal" theme that ran through the first few series. As much as I disliked Widow and Wardrobe, it always touched me that the Doctor was making the effort to give these children such a wonderful Christmas after they lost their father... as opposed to oral relations with a concrete slab that I think was supposed to be a funny line at some point.

Also, Bill Bailey is a little more entertaining, and a little less overbearing than Peter Kay. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, but drama isn't his thing.
The oral sex thing was a poor joke at the end of L & M, whereas TWATW or whatever it was called was a nausea-fest apparently about how motherhood makes you invincible. What a load of baloney.

L & M wasn't about the dullness of normal life - just the opposite iirc.

Anyway, perhaps better to have boring normal life transformed into whizz bang exciting life with the intervention of the Doctor, than to have the Doctor living such a very dull life that visiting an American Diner is a highlight.

I watch Christmas DW with non-fans, and it was utterly embarrassing. Also, Bailey was wasted. (I mean his part wasn't up to much, not that he'd drunk too much).
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Old 26-11-2016, 20:44
Granny McSmith
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I would rather watch paint dry than Heaven Sent, it is less boring.
It was indeed, extremely dull. But I suppose it's a bit lowbrow to expect DW to provide fun?
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Old 26-11-2016, 21:12
Lord Smexy
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The oral sex thing was a poor joke at the end of L & M, whereas TWATW or whatever it was called was a nausea-fest apparently about how motherhood makes you invincible. What a load of baloney.

L & M wasn't about the dullness of normal life - just the opposite iirc.

Anyway, perhaps better to have boring normal life transformed into whizz bang exciting life with the intervention of the Doctor, than to have the Doctor living such a very dull life that visiting an American Diner is a highlight.

I watch Christmas DW with non-fans, and it was utterly embarrassing. Also, Bailey was wasted. (I mean his part wasn't up to much, not that he'd drunk too much).
Personally I didn't see the "whizz bang exciting" bit because I feel that RTD failed to build up that exciting aspect of the Doctor's life when the aliens and the settings were often so dull and uninspired. At most Series 2 was just "Come and see Ten and Rose flirt while generic aliens invade 21st century London".

Also, can confirm that L&M is embarrassing even with other Who fans. There were a lot of red faces that evening.
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Old 26-11-2016, 21:39
Granny McSmith
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Personally I didn't see the "whizz bang exciting" bit because I feel that RTD failed to build up that exciting aspect of the Doctor's life when the aliens and the settings were often so dull and uninspired. At most Series 2 was just "Come and see Ten and Rose flirt while generic aliens invade 21st century London".

Also, can confirm that L&M is embarrassing even with other Who fans. There were a lot of red faces that evening.
Well, there you are. All the fun of the Tenth Doctor years passed you by. Sad for you, but at least you have Moffat.
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Old 26-11-2016, 21:54
Talma
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You did notice Widow and Wardrobe was in the list, didn't you?

Do you seriously think that was better than Love and Monsters? Be honest, now.
Yes. Not by much, but It had a few decent bits, like the first 5 minutes or so, but Love & Monsters was so bad it was cringeable, as was Fear Her. Voyage of the Damned wasn't far off, either, and Sleep no More. Nearly all the others are either fantastic, well done or have at least something going for them, though sometimes it's only the Doctor himself.
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Old 26-11-2016, 23:13
Sam_Gee1
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It was indeed, extremely dull. But I suppose it's a bit lowbrow to expect DW to provide fun?
I found it riveting to be honest, a really dark character based episode, but it doesn't really have a place in Doctor Who.
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Old 26-11-2016, 23:27
Lord Smexy
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Well, there you are. All the fun of the Tenth Doctor years passed you by. Sad for you, but at least you have Moffat.
Or the first thirteen seasons of Classic Who.
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Old 27-11-2016, 09:57
Theophile
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I'm struggling to think of one that comes anywhere near the sheer awfulness of this stinking pile of rubbish.

There has rarely been worse television than Love and Monsters.
Did you see The Doctor, The Widow and The Wardrobe? Surely that episode makes Love and Monsters look like Hamlet.
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Old 27-11-2016, 10:04
Theophile
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The oral sex thing was a poor joke at the end of L & M, whereas TWATW or whatever it was called was a nausea-fest apparently about how motherhood makes you invincible. What a load of baloney.

L & M wasn't about the dullness of normal life - just the opposite iirc.

Anyway, perhaps better to have boring normal life transformed into whizz bang exciting life with the intervention of the Doctor, than to have the Doctor living such a very dull life that visiting an American Diner is a highlight.

I watch Christmas DW with non-fans, and it was utterly embarrassing. Also, Bailey was wasted. (I mean his part wasn't up to much, not that he'd drunk too much).
Not only invincible, but omniscient.

"I can't drive a car well, but I can drive a Mech even though I have never seen one before, I can fly a spaceship even though I have never seen one before, I can save an entire race just by being female, fly all of us back home and save us, and save my husband while I am at it while he is stuck somewhere over the British Channel."

I am crazy, impossible, fantasy woman because every single woman The Doctor meets during Moffat's tenure is flat out the most amazing woman who has ever lived bar none. Hear me roar. LOL!

The Doctor, The Widow and The Wardrobe did for Doctor Who what Episode I did for Star Wars.
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Old 27-11-2016, 10:16
Sam_Gee1
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Did you see The Doctor, The Widow and The Wardrobe? Surely that episode makes Love and Monsters look like Hamlet.
Also wins worst episode name as well, you could tell it was horrible from the title.
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Old 27-11-2016, 10:21
GDK
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I guess TDtWatW is just too schmaltzy, sweet and twee for many people's taste in these hardened, cynical times. Too fairy tale. Me, I don't mind it all. It's perfectly decent Christmas fare.
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Old 27-11-2016, 13:54
PaperSkin
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I thought Love and Monsters is actually pretty good with some interesting stuff going on.. right until the shift happens, when the blob dude becomes fully blob dude and everything goes down the toilet on maximum flush...

The last third of the episode is terrible and that's what everyone remembers from the episode, because of course we will that's how our brains work.. our last impression is of awfulness so that what we take from the episode...

I remembered the episode as being a total pile of dog droppings and had no intention of ever watching it again, but happened to re-watch it a few years back for the first time (due to circumstances I won't bore you with) and I was surprised by how good it was when watching the first 2/3rds.. I was like oh there's some interesting good stuff in this why did I think it was all so awful.. and then the final third happened and then I knew why..

The episode is a total right off because of that dreadful last third, but before that its good, its just ruined by what follows... and funnily enough its the same situation with its neighbour Fear Her, that episode isn't bad all the way through either like remembered, its agian the god awful last third that ruins it...
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Old 27-11-2016, 15:15
Abomination
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Thinking through what my least favourite stories of all are...

Fear Her
The Lazarus Experiment
The End of Time
The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood
The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe
Dinosaurs on a Spaceship
The Power of Three
Sleep No More

...I'm quite glad I can settle on a selection of stories across multiple series, multiple companions, multiple Doctor's. The closest I can see to a low-point in the nine series so far is Series 7, which is purely because somewhere along the line has to have been my least favourite time - but it was still largely watchable. There's slightly more Moffat-era stories in that mix, but then it's been a longer era. Similarly when I consider what my top ten stories might now be, I'm pretty sure it'll involve a mix of RTD-era and Moffat-era stories involving all four most recent Doctor's.

There are stories considered quite poor that I might not think much of, but they have redeeming qualities. There are things I quite like about Love & Monsters, things I quite like about In The Forest of the Night. Nearly every finale is a let down to some extent or other, with the last two being frustrating in their issues - but they have redeeming qualities.

Why am I bothering to say this? Because I find it incredible that anyone could generalise the entirety of Series 8 and 9, or Series 5-9 or 4-9 or whatever, and label it as collectively worse than a single episode from many years back now. Incredible only because whilst that may very well be a valid opinion, it's mad anyone can genuinely think that and then still find themselves interested enough to be posting that on a forum this many years later - having clearly been disillusioned by the direction of the show for the better side of half a decade.
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Old 27-11-2016, 15:43
Granny McSmith
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Thinking through what my least favourite stories of all are...

Fear Her
The Lazarus Experiment
The End of Time
The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood
The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe
Dinosaurs on a Spaceship
The Power of Three
Sleep No More

...I'm quite glad I can settle on a selection of stories across multiple series, multiple companions, multiple Doctor's. The closest I can see to a low-point in the nine series so far is Series 7, which is purely because somewhere along the line has to have been my least favourite time - but it was still largely watchable. There's slightly more Moffat-era stories in that mix, but then it's been a longer era. Similarly when I consider what my top ten stories might now be, I'm pretty sure it'll involve a mix of RTD-era and Moffat-era stories involving all four most recent Doctor's.

There are stories considered quite poor that I might not think much of, but they have redeeming qualities. There are things I quite like about Love & Monsters, things I quite like about In The Forest of the Night. Nearly every finale is a let down to some extent or other, with the last two being frustrating in their issues - but they have redeeming qualities.

Why am I bothering to say this? Because I find it incredible that anyone could generalise the entirety of Series 8 and 9, or Series 5-9 or 4-9 or whatever, and label it as collectively worse than a single episode from many years back now. Incredible only because whilst that may very well be a valid opinion, it's mad anyone can genuinely think that and then still find themselves interested enough to be posting that on a forum this many years later - having clearly been disillusioned by the direction of the show for the better side of half a decade.
My problem with, say series 5-9 isn't that individual stories were bad - some of them were very good indeed - but that the ridiculous River Song arc, the annoying Clara arc, the lack of resolution of some plot points raised and discarded, the fact that Moffat seemed to write himself into a hole and have no clear and rational idea how to get out of it, so threw everything but the kitchen sink at it, tarnished whole series for me.

I have no problem with the tree thing, or Robin Hood etc. If they were poor or mediocre episodes in a good series, like L & M, then fine. But they weren't. The impossible girl or whatever was always hanging about in the background like the skeleton at the feast.
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Old 27-11-2016, 15:54
Pink Knight
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One problem with Love and Monsters for me is the shoe horning of an alien in it, made up by a Blue Peter competition winner and then have Peter Kay playing the part.
The innuendo with the paving slab at the end didn't help either. Apart from that it was an ok Dr lite episode.
I hate Fear Her, cannot get any joy from it.
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Old 27-11-2016, 15:58
Mulett
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For a bit of context, whilst critics and some fans claimed Heaven Sent was the best episode of Doctor Who of all time, it got an AI of just 80 which is towards the lower end of the spectrum for New Who episodes.

So the general audience's enjoyment of the episode didn't match the praise it was getting from some quarters.

Again, an experimental episode that some think worked and others didn't.
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Old 27-11-2016, 16:23
Lord Smexy
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For a bit of context, whilst critics and some fans claimed Heaven Sent was the best episode of Doctor Who of all time, it got an AI of just 80 which is towards the lower end of the spectrum for New Who episodes.

So the general audience's enjoyment of the episode didn't match the praise it was getting from some quarters.

Again, an experimental episode that some think worked and others didn't.
And The End of the World is one of only three New Who episodes to score below 80, while The Curse of the Black Spot and The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe received an 86 and an 84 respectively.

At most, the fact that 76 is considered a rare and low point for the show, even this far in, is the impressive part.
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Old 27-11-2016, 16:30
Boz_Lowdownl
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Thinking through what my least favourite stories of all are...

Fear Her
The Lazarus Experiment
The End of Time
The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood
The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe
Dinosaurs on a Spaceship
The Power of Three
Sleep No More

...I'm quite glad I can settle on a selection of stories across multiple series, multiple companions, multiple Doctor's. The closest I can see to a low-point in the nine series so far is Series 7, which is purely because somewhere along the line has to have been my least favourite time - but it was still largely watchable. There's slightly more Moffat-era stories in that mix, but then it's been a longer era. Similarly when I consider what my top ten stories might now be, I'm pretty sure it'll involve a mix of RTD-era and Moffat-era stories involving all four most recent Doctor's.

There are stories considered quite poor that I might not think much of, but they have redeeming qualities. There are things I quite like about Love & Monsters, things I quite like about In The Forest of the Night. Nearly every finale is a let down to some extent or other, with the last two being frustrating in their issues - but they have redeeming qualities.

Why am I bothering to say this? Because I find it incredible that anyone could generalise the entirety of Series 8 and 9, or Series 5-9 or 4-9 or whatever, and label it as collectively worse than a single episode from many years back now. Incredible only because whilst that may very well be a valid opinion, it's mad anyone can genuinely think that and then still find themselves interested enough to be posting that on a forum this many years later - having clearly been disillusioned by the direction of the show for the better side of half a decade.
Doctor Who has been around for 36 series. Just because the last 2 have been the worst ever, and the previous 3 before that not a lot better, still means there is still far more good than bad. And this forum deals with ALL Who, not just the dreadful Moffat era. (Incidentally, I agree that I dislike all on your list except Dinosaurs, which was great.)
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