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Crying women... give me a break! |
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#51 |
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 2,455
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I think the men on here are failing to realise quite how frustrating it must be for a woman to be shouted down by a man with no chance of defending herself. Woman have naturally higher pitched voices and are never going to be able to compete in that sort of shout out, even Margaret Thatcher had elocution lessons to learn to speak in a lower timbre to be taken more seriously.
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#52 |
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 6,328
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Angry aggressive men. Give me a break!
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#53 |
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 6,328
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Quote:
This is true. I recently attended a meeting where I was the only woman, and I was completely physically unable to make my voice heard. I just gave up in the end, because the only other option was to scream at them, and that would have got me labelled as 'aggressive'. So I did have a word with the co-ordinator of that particular group afterwards, he was concerned but his answer was 'You're not usually unassertive'. It was really hard to get it across to him that it wasn't a question of assertion but the physical inability to be heard above the loud voices of the men - who were all shouting each other down as well.
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#54 |
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Manchester, England
Posts: 19,941
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I'm aware Paul was a loose canon, but these women in the show have to stop resorting to tears every time there's an exchange, an argument, or they're on the line. If they could just for one time, rationally explain their position, argue back and why they shouldn't be fired without making the boardroom a sob-fest, that'd be great.
They take themselves, and this game, way too serious. And as a result, boring tv! I've never seen a man cry to try & manipulate a situation or win an argument. Paul was always going to be the architect of his own doom as he was so aggressive & arrogant. The two ladies did not need the on cue tears. |
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#55 |
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 36,976
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Sounding just a little degrading towards women there.
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Sorry, I'm a woman and I agree that some women use their bodies and emotions to get on in the world.
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The OP makes a point about "crying women", what I would like to know is, are they only fine with men crying then?
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I've seen it too but wish they wouldn't. If women want to be taken seriously in the workplace then they need to step up and stop relying on tears or tits to get ahead, it's f*cking insulting to the rest of us.
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#56 |
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,846
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Women crying is cool. Makes them soft and more likable.
But I can't imagine Sugar wants a more emotional type of woman as his partner. Anyone remember Ruth Badger? Now there's a woman that never cried. I'm not 100 percent sure if she was a woman, though. ![]() |
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#57 |
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: The House of Elle
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Quote:
How many times have men teared up in the boardroom on this show vs how many women have? Have any men at all squeezed out some theatrical, well-timed tears and even if they did would it have made a difference? I don't see Sugar going all soft because some bloke gets choked up where he clearly does for the opposite sex. Women know this and use it to their advantage - Is this honestly new news to anyone?!?!?.
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#58 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: London
Posts: 279
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Quote:
This is true. I recently attended a meeting where I was the only woman, and I was completely physically unable to make my voice heard. I just gave up in the end, because the only other option was to scream at them, and that would have got me labelled as 'aggressive'. So I did have a word with the co-ordinator of that particular group afterwards, he was concerned but his answer was 'You're not usually unassertive'. It was really hard to get it across to him that it wasn't a question of assertion but the physical inability to be heard above the loud voices of the men - who were all shouting each other down as well.
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#59 |
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,550
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Paul would be better off working by himself.
I could see him being self employed because I couldn't imagine him as part of a team. |
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#60 |
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 36,976
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Did I ever mention boardroom? I think you'll find I didn't. I was speaking generally for those who like to jump to inane conclusion based on obvious prejudice.
Some women in the workplace engage in planned emotional manipulation as part of the way they conduct themselves and see nothing wrong with that, as we saw from Frances post-boardroom pleased that her tactics had paid off. It's as if they've never let go of the lessons they learned as toddlers - Tears get you what you want. |
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#61 |
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: The House of Elle
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That's the crux of what sparked this discussion. Hardly an "inane conclusion" when it's based on observed fact and testimony even from other women in this very forum.
Some women in the workplace engage in planned emotional manipulation as part of the way they conduct themselves and see nothing wrong with that, as we saw from Frances post-boardroom pleased that her tactics had paid off. It's as if they've never let go of the lessons they learned as toddlers - Tears get you what you want. ![]() France's outbreak did seem dubious given the circumstances, but Jessica's seemed genuine. It just seems terribly condescending when people are dismissive of emotion just because it comes from a woman. |
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#62 |
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Titan Uranus
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Every time a woman employs her sexuality as manipulation in the workplace or turns on the waterworks to do the same then they degrade themselves and their sex. If it never happened then they couldn't be accused of it but it does and they can.
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#63 |
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 22,062
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Jessica has always shown her emotion on her sleeve in the show and I 100% believe her tears were genuine. She was clearly trying not to get emotional.
Francis on the other hand came across as a lemming crier. Someone who starts crying because someone else who is crying is getting sympathy. It was a tactic pure and simple. However I am finding some of the comments here a little disrespectful in regards to treating all women who cry as manipulate trolls or weak. It's as sexist as a woman using her tears for sympathy. If not more so. |
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#64 |
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 5,696
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Though that's starting to sound like any woman that dares to show emotion should automatically be labelled as a manipulative seductress.
I bet women who show no emotion on the show get called cold and calculating. |
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#65 |
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 22,062
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Women are often called manipulative on DS. It's weird.
I bet women who show no emotion on the show get called cold and calculating. |
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#66 |
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 65,713
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I think it's unfair to always assume tears are fake. Some people (myself included) are more prone to crying in emotional or stressful situations and if you are one of these people there is actually nothing you can do to stop it.
But....and it is a big but, isn't this something which never happened on earlier series of The Apprentice? Why's it happening now? I really can't imagine Karren Brady breaking down crying in some business meeting. And can you imagine Alan Sugar suddenly breaking down into tears in the middle of some business negotiation and sobbing "It's too hard" before being consoled by the other business people in the room? I'm not sure that it's something you can really do in the real world. Not necessarily anything to do with it being unacceptable, but more because it's going to put you at a vulnerable disadvantage with a business rival who will capitalize on it. Maybe business and the business boardroom is one of those places where emotions MUST be internalised, as you can always go home and have a good cry about it later? |
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#67 |
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,972
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Quote:
I've seen it too but wish they wouldn't. If women want to be taken seriously in the workplace then they need to step up and stop relying on tears or tits to get ahead, it's f*cking insulting to the rest of us.
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#68 |
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 4,467
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Quote:
I'm aware Paul was a loose canon, but these women in the show have to stop resorting to tears every time there's an exchange, an argument, or they're on the line. If they could just for one time, rationally explain their position, argue back and why they shouldn't be fired without making the boardroom a sob-fest, that'd be great.
They take themselves, and this game, way too serious. And as a result, boring tv! |
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#69 |
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,798
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I don't cry easily but working with Paul for 2 minutes would probably make me
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#70 |
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 4,467
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Quote:
I don't cry easily either. I'm usually a quiet person but I can have a mouth like a blackwall tunnel when getting my point across and would have shouted him down and he would be the one ending up crying.
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#71 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,600
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From my working experience, I've seen a lot of strong assertive women who could wipe the floor with people like Paul.
Although Paul was overbearing in his behaviour towards them, I don't think Jessica and Francis are emotionally strong enough to cope with being challenged in highly pressured situations. |
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#72 |
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 22,727
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Quote:
To be fair, that's what women do.
I've never seen a man cry to try & manipulate a situation or win an argument. Paul was always going to be the architect of his own doom as he was so aggressive & arrogant. The two ladies did not need the on cue tears. I cannot imagine anyone employing an aggressive bully like Paul and whilst I can't imagine many wanting to employ someone who cries in times of stress I do think Jessica was mightily pushed by Paul in this instance and is certainly the lesser of 2 evils here. Quote:
Jessica has always shown her emotion on her sleeve in the show and I 100% believe her tears were genuine. She was clearly trying not to get emotional.
Francis on the other hand came across as a lemming crier. Someone who starts crying because someone else who is crying is getting sympathy. It was a tactic pure and simple. However I am finding some of the comments here a little disrespectful in regards to treating all women who cry as manipulate trolls or weak. It's as sexist as a woman using her tears for sympathy. If not more so. |
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#73 |
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 676
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Both of the women were crying, which suggests to me that Paul had created a very high-stress environment and they were finding it difficult to cope. He also started being aggressive to Sugar when he was supposed to be getting him on his side.
These are two big red flags and I would not hire him under any circumstances. Maybe the two women cannot handle pressure, but Paul was a much bigger problem. |
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#74 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 914
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Quote:
Both of the women were crying, which suggests to me that Paul had created a very high-stress environment and they were finding it difficult to cope. He also started being aggressive to Sugar when he was supposed to be getting him on his side.
These are two big red flags and I would not hire him under any circumstances. Maybe the two women cannot handle pressure, but Paul was a much bigger problem. |
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#75 |
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 68,909
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Quote:
BIB: It would probably be more sensible, of the two females, to go somewhere and have a good old moan. They would realise that Paul is the problem and should have been able to come back and deal with him in a more adult and assertive manner. I haven’t cried in work since I was 19 years old and on my first work placement, although I didn’t cry in work but when I got home. And now, too many people rely on me being cool and calm, which I certainly demand of myself, given the length of time I’ve been in post. I can’t understand how these candidates, who are not new to the concept of the workplace, are completely unable to deal with conflict. But they are also unable to grasp the essentials of project management from the smallest details upwards.
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But I can't imagine Sugar wants a more emotional type of woman as his partner. Anyone remember Ruth Badger? Now there's a woman that never cried. 

