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Footballers historical abuse |
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#76 |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 295
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Although nothing terrible happened to me or, to my knowledge, any of my friends, as someone who grew up in the 70s/80s I must confess to not feeling entirely surprised at what these guys went through, and it's made me seriously think about how people acted at the time.
We all made jokes about PE teachers, watch yourselves in the showers, backs to the wall, etc. Typical stuff that people joked about at the time. (We wouldn't make those comments these days of course.) But could we have said or done something? Should we have? All these things actually happened in my school : the football coach forced boys to shower after the game - should we have said something? he would "supervise" the boys in the shower - should we have said something? he would ensure the boys showered naked, any shy boy showering in shorts was ordered to remove them - should we have said something? he would change in the same room as the boys, at the same time - should we have said something? the same teacher took the male lead in the school production of Sound of Music, a role which meant he kissed the female lead (15 years old) on stage - should we have said something? A few years after I left, this teacher was convicted of a (consensual) sexual relationship with a pupil. Would things have turned out differently if someone had spoken up? This was just one example in one school, imagine the same scenario being played out in schools up and down the country. I can't begin to imagine how people who suffered terrible abuse as children must be feeling, or even those who were around at the time, who witnessed what seemed like minor incidents at the time but with hindsight seemed to point towards a darker truth. |
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#77 |
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 9,174
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Quote:
Ted Heath for example. Likely gay rather than a paedophile.
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#78 |
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,591
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My grandmother adored Ted Heath. She couldn't understand why such a handsome man (her opinion, not mine!) had never married ...
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#79 |
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 4,950
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More than 20 former professional footballers have now come forward with more expected.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38121724 http://www.itv.com/news/2016-11-27/t...ions-unfolded/ |
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#80 |
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Southern East Anglia
Posts: 75,208
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Quote:
Although nothing terrible happened to me or, to my knowledge, any of my friends, as someone who grew up in the 70s/80s I must confess to not feeling entirely surprised at what these guys went through, and it's made me seriously think about how people acted at the time.
We all made jokes about PE teachers, watch yourselves in the showers, backs to the wall, etc. Typical stuff that people joked about at the time. (We wouldn't make those comments these days of course.) But could we have said or done something? Should we have? All these things actually happened in my school : the football coach forced boys to shower after the game - should we have said something? he would "supervise" the boys in the shower - should we have said something? he would ensure the boys showered naked, any shy boy showering in shorts was ordered to remove them - should we have said something? he would change in the same room as the boys, at the same time - should we have said something? the same teacher took the male lead in the school production of Sound of Music, a role which meant he kissed the female lead (15 years old) on stage - should we have said something? A few years after I left, this teacher was convicted of a (consensual) sexual relationship with a pupil. Would things have turned out differently if someone had spoken up? This was just one example in one school, imagine the same scenario being played out in schools up and down the country. I can't begin to imagine how people who suffered terrible abuse as children must be feeling, or even those who were around at the time, who witnessed what seemed like minor incidents at the time but with hindsight seemed to point towards a darker truth. I don't think any of us at that time (1986 to 1989) would have thought to say anything, or complain. It was just accepted as a fact of school life. My main problem was with the shower itself, which ran either scalding hot or freezing cold. They never did fix the bloody thing. |
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#81 |
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,702
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Yep, there's all of that as well. The whole macho thing, the dressing room banter, all lads together, etc.
Can you imagine it? "ER, you got touched by a nonce, you poofter!" You only have to see how difficult it is for a player to come out as gay to realise how hard it would be for an abuse victim to speak out. Added to the fact that from the day the abuse starts they're told no one would believe them, and it's easy to see why they stay quiet, poor souls. Quote:
Just seeing these men being interviewed by Victoria Derbyshire was enough to tell me there is no bandwagon-jumping happening here (not that Tellystar has accused them of such). These men have taken great courage to speak out and I'm glad they have. I think it's much more difficult for boys and men to talk about this for some of the reasons other posters have given already, so well done guys. Hope you can go on to find some peace of mind. Shame it had to wait so long.
As well as all the trauma caused to girls, they have the above issues to contend with too. Quote:
I agree Bennell is worse than Saville. Not that it matters to those that they abuse they are all individuals.
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Apparently he has a girlfriend.
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by your logic heterosexuality and paedophilia should also be 'tangled up' as many victims of child sexual abuse are of the opposite gender to their abuser
the tangling up is purely to do with prejudice and ignorance and isn't 'easy to see' at all Quote:
Doesn't mean anything, Freddy Mercury had a girlfriend
We are used to hearing that victims of child abuse go on to lead terribly affected lives but these footballers seem to have come through the alleged incidents pretty well. They have all gone on to lead successful lives, and any affects only brought to the surface by appearing on TV shows |
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#82 |
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,595
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The point is that 'young' lads at that time will often just have accepted that this sort of predatory behaviour was the norm, whether it was at the football club, scouts etc.
Most of the these abusers had the sense not to force the issue but just move on to the next victim if the current focus of their attention resisted. |
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#83 |
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,702
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At that age most lads seem to want to fit in, be seen to be "up for a laugh" and not rock the boat, so I can understand your thinking.
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#84 |
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 13,888
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#85 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 20,674
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I might have missed the info but why wasn't this perv named / accused earlier by the men who have recently come forward?... he was jailed in 1994 (US afaik), a documentary about him in 1997, jailed again in 1998 and 2015.
I'm not underestimating the long term effects of sexual abuse but I don't understand why name him now, why not, say, in 1998 or 2015? |
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#86 |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,054
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I might have missed the info but why wasn't this perv named / accused earlier by the men who have recently come forward?... he was jailed in 1994 (US afaik), a documentary about him in 1997, jailed again in 1998 and 2015.
I'm not underestimating the long term effects of sexual abuse but I don't understand why name him now, why not, say, in 1998 or 2015? He was also jailed for offences before, so some did come forward. |
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#87 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 20,674
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They were children at the time, had their adult lives ruined by his actions. Then one found the strength to come forward, and others followed in his example.
He was also jailed for offences before, so some did come forward. |
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#88 |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,054
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I appreciate all that and I can understand, as kids, their fear etc. Just wondering what was the catalyst I wonder for them to come forward now (like I said in my post I might have missed that info) and not when he was accused and subsequently jailed with the more recent offences.
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#89 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,697
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Are you a bit dense?
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I am already fed up with this dominating the news
Anyone else? Quote:
A stupid , unfair and ignorant comment from you
I am not saying it shouldn't be on the news, I said it shouldn't be continually dominating the news, when it was already known about for years |
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#90 |
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Pit of Despair
Posts: 50,130
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I appreciate all that and I can understand, as kids, their fear etc. Just wondering what was the catalyst I wonder for them to come forward now (like I said in my post I might have missed that info) and not when he was accused and subsequently jailed with the more recent offences.
ETA: The others have come forward because of him, they thought his bravery and courage shouldn't stand alone and decided they should also do the same. |
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#91 |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: being Blue with El Nino Torres
Posts: 11,910
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#92 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 20,674
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From watching the initial Woodward interview with Derbyshire, he states he gave evidence years ago but hadn't been named (I think I'm recalling correctly), so he did come forward a long time ago. He also says that he's finally come out about this because he felt strong enough to after years of bad therapists and suicide attempts, he's finally strong enough to talk about it openly.
ETA: The others have come forward because of him, they thought his bravery and courage shouldn't stand alone and decided they should also do the same. |
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#93 |
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 4,950
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I might have missed the info but why wasn't this perv named / accused earlier by the men who have recently come forward?
2 min 20 seconds into this clip https://www.channel4.com/news/police...se-allegations You might want to look at this interview as well. https://www.channel4.com/news/paul-s...se-allegations |
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#94 |
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Join Date: Dec 2015
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I presume they think they will be believed now, post-Savile.
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#95 |
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,003
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Poor you, having to put up with the droll of other people's suffering as kids on the news.
Get some perspective fgs. |
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#96 |
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 68,918
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Quote:
I appreciate all that and I can understand, as kids, their fear etc. Just wondering what was the catalyst I wonder for them to come forward now (like I said in my post I might have missed that info) and not when he was accused and subsequently jailed with the more recent offences.
Sometimes all it takes is one brave soul to speak and the floodgates open |
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#97 |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hebrides
Posts: 28,131
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The vast difference is very clearly marked in that a) the perpetrator, Bennell, is still alive (at the moment) and b) the victims have come forward publicly. No anonymity, no hiding behind some coded names or 'person A' etc. They are out in the open.
You should visit a British court room any day of the week and actually watch people of all ages and sex give painful evidence against sexual predators. It's utterly heart and gut wreanching. To suggest or imply that these guys are in some way more " credible" does a complete disservice to this shocking and largely hidden crime. You are in no position to judge why some people will choose to remain A or B. And not named. This isn't a male v female crime , junior footballers are not more special or credible than vulnerable girls. Thank god there has been real ground breaking cases that increasingly make it easier for. Victims to come forward. But it will never be easy and I salute all of those who do across the spectrum. |
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#98 |
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,814
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You'd have to ask them. Victims of sexual abuse can be clouded by fear. Look at the thousands of victims of clerical abuse.
Sometimes all it takes is one brave soul to speak and the floodgates open Young people today have no idea what it was like in the 70s and 80s, and even worse before that. As a female 12 year old in the later 70s, my friend and I were propositioned by the swimming bath lifeguards in their early 20s (in the swimming pool). One got a bit nasty when we refused to go along with 'Show me your's and I'll show mine' and they knew how old we were. They were sacked that day as my friend told her parents who called the police. |
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#99 |
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 7,746
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Does this imply in some way that that makes their allegations in some way more credible than say other victims ?
You should visit a British court room any day of the week and actually watch people of all ages and sex give painful evidence against sexual predators. It's utterly heart and gut wreanching. To suggest or imply that these guys are in some way more " credible" does a complete disservice to this shocking and largely hidden crime. You are in no position to judge why some people will choose to remain A or B. And not named. This isn't a male v female crime , junior footballers are not more special or credible than vulnerable girls. Thank god there has been real ground breaking cases that increasingly make it easier for. Victims to come forward. But it will never be easy and I salute all of those who do across the spectrum. The stories were difficult, if not impossible, for anyone to challenge. The only real option here was to "Believe the Children". The Footballers. The former children. Does anyone remember when the new default position.....post Savile.....was "Believe the Children"? About a year ago, journalists were told that a majority of Operation Midland Detectives found a key witness/victim to be credible. Hundreds of vastly experienced Detectives found that witness credible after questioning him. Nobody knows for sure how we got from there to where we are today. If he has an Advocate with attitude and courage....maybe we will find out.........If the reported prosecution (of the witness/alleged victim) goes ahead. |
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#100 |
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 4,950
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Quote:
Does this imply in some way that that makes their allegations in some way more credible than say other victims?
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