Louise has made an important contribution to SCD - she's made me a Kevin fan! I've found him delightful this year; calm, supportive and an excellent partner. Really disliked the Kellie Bright partnership which I found OTT because she was such a loud character.
Is Louise Not Popular On Here Because Of Kevin?
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Originally Posted by bendymixer:
“"technically difficult" what do you mean by that - the technique for a dance is the technique - there are no degrees of technique”
“"technically difficult" what do you mean by that - the technique for a dance is the technique - there are no degrees of technique”
Without wanting to get into this argument, I'd suggest the example would be Ore's long spin in his Viennese Waltz. The technique needed is the same throughout the spin but it more difficult for a celebrity dancer to maintain the technique the longer the spin continues.
Originally Posted by penelopesimpson:
“Here, here. The post was horrible. I've said it before and I'll say it again - the forum is for discussing the show, NOT insulting other posters.”
“Here, here. The post was horrible. I've said it before and I'll say it again - the forum is for discussing the show, NOT insulting other posters.”
Are you referring to him calling me 'rude and condescending'?
If not, perhaps you will point to remarks I have made directly about his character in some ad hom fashion.
I await.
Maggie
In answer to the original post, Louise isn't popular because...
erm... what dance did she do again? I'm sure it was lovely and I think I remember it being very correct but... Was it a waltz? A foxtrot? I think it was definitely ballroom. Yes. I think. It certainly looked pretty. I remember smiling inanely and nodding my head a bit. Then I went and poured myself another drink. I came back and she was still twirling about rather sweetly. I knocked back some booze and smiled a bit more. And then...
Sorry, who were we talking about?
erm... what dance did she do again? I'm sure it was lovely and I think I remember it being very correct but... Was it a waltz? A foxtrot? I think it was definitely ballroom. Yes. I think. It certainly looked pretty. I remember smiling inanely and nodding my head a bit. Then I went and poured myself another drink. I came back and she was still twirling about rather sweetly. I knocked back some booze and smiled a bit more. And then...
Sorry, who were we talking about?
Originally Posted by penelopesimpson:
“Louise has made an important contribution to SCD - she's made me a Kevin fan! I've found him delightful this year; calm, supportive and an excellent partner. Really disliked the Kellie Bright partnership which I found OTT because she was such a loud character.”
“Louise has made an important contribution to SCD - she's made me a Kevin fan! I've found him delightful this year; calm, supportive and an excellent partner. Really disliked the Kellie Bright partnership which I found OTT because she was such a loud character.”
I could sign under every word in BiB. I love, love, love this couple. IMO they are second only to Danny and Oti.
Last year I could not stand Kevin and most of his routines (too many props and too much clowning). I recognized Kellie's excellent dancing skills, but something happened when she and Kevin worked together. They never understood the meaning of "subtle". To use a musical term, everything was "fortissimo" for them. Their routines affected me like screeching brakes, fingernails scraping a blackboard, and other most annoying things.
This year, watching Kevin and Louise is a pure joy. Their routines rely less on theatricals and more on dancing content. I am surprised that many people are oblivious to the level of Louise's dance proficiency and think that she is overmarked. Louise is a beautiful and elegant dancer who has turned Kevin the Class Clown into an elegant and attentive partner.
I've liked celebs despite Kevin before (loved Frankie, for instance), but I find Louise about as engaging and interesting as lukewarm porridge.
Originally Posted by vald:
“Partly because of Kevin and partly because she is a threat to some people's favourite reaching the final. And of course it is entirely her fault if the judges compliment her or give her a decent score.😏”
“Partly because of Kevin and partly because she is a threat to some people's favourite reaching the final. And of course it is entirely her fault if the judges compliment her or give her a decent score.😏”
Well said.
There'll be some, though they probably won't admit it, who dislike Louise because she's beautiful and married to a handsome, rich ex-footballer.
I don't mind her, just think she's a bit bland and I prefer other couples more.
I don't mind her, just think she's a bit bland and I prefer other couples more.
I don't have a problem with Kevin. he's fine. not fabulous, not annoying, just fine.
And so is Louise. A lovely dancer, no doubt , hots the right shapes, looks lovely doing it. but she's just that - lovely. not exciting, not entertaining, not fun. She can dance the dance, but - with the exception of her Argentine Tango - she can't "sell" it, or make it exciting. So, IMO, she's no winner. If you compare her to Danny, she's just plain dull.
The fact that she's wildly overmarked doesn;t help.
And so is Louise. A lovely dancer, no doubt , hots the right shapes, looks lovely doing it. but she's just that - lovely. not exciting, not entertaining, not fun. She can dance the dance, but - with the exception of her Argentine Tango - she can't "sell" it, or make it exciting. So, IMO, she's no winner. If you compare her to Danny, she's just plain dull.
The fact that she's wildly overmarked doesn;t help.
Originally Posted by vald:
“Partly because of Kevin and partly because she is a threat to some people's favourite reaching the final. And of course it is entirely her fault if the judges compliment her or give her a decent score.😏”
“Partly because of Kevin and partly because she is a threat to some people's favourite reaching the final. And of course it is entirely her fault if the judges compliment her or give her a decent score.😏”
Sorry, but that's a load of rubbish. People on here don't like her because she is bland. She couldn't 'threaten' anything because that would require an emotion, and she shows none. Unless inane grinning counts as emotion?
Originally Posted by tabithakitten:
“In answer to the original post, Louise isn't popular because...
erm... what dance did she do again? I'm sure it was lovely and I think I remember it being very correct but... Was it a waltz? A foxtrot? I think it was definitely ballroom. Yes. I think. It certainly looked pretty. I remember smiling inanely and nodding my head a bit. Then I went and poured myself another drink. I came back and she was still twirling about rather sweetly. I knocked back some booze and smiled a bit more. And then...
Sorry, who were we talking about?”
“In answer to the original post, Louise isn't popular because...
erm... what dance did she do again? I'm sure it was lovely and I think I remember it being very correct but... Was it a waltz? A foxtrot? I think it was definitely ballroom. Yes. I think. It certainly looked pretty. I remember smiling inanely and nodding my head a bit. Then I went and poured myself another drink. I came back and she was still twirling about rather sweetly. I knocked back some booze and smiled a bit more. And then...
Sorry, who were we talking about?”
Exactly. She is this year's drippy one. I thought Ali Basten was the drippiest ever but Louise out-drips her. Wet, boring and bland.
Sickly sweet, good pupil, great legs, not much pop
(Just read this off the sheet one of the judges scribble on (ツ) )
(Just read this off the sheet one of the judges scribble on (ツ) )
Originally Posted by Dervlathedog:
“But surely some elements of dance are harder for a beginner to master? It's not just a matter of adherence to an always absolute standard of technique without regard to complexity if you've got two left feet and wonky knees (for example)?
It feels like common sense to say there are degrees of hard-to-do-it-ness???”
“But surely some elements of dance are harder for a beginner to master? It's not just a matter of adherence to an always absolute standard of technique without regard to complexity if you've got two left feet and wonky knees (for example)?
It feels like common sense to say there are degrees of hard-to-do-it-ness???”
Yes that is absolutely true. However if we are to get into a discussion of what is technically difficult then I think we would need to take two of the same dances performed by different celebs and compare the content. I don't think it is fair to assume someone is doing something technically more difficult without analysing it properly. If you wanted to offer up two dances for comparison on the ballroom technique thread I'm sure someone could help.
Originally Posted by hisdogspot:
“Not if the dance is technically undemanding
It's not difficult to get everything 'right' if the dance is safe and no risks are taken”
“Not if the dance is technically undemanding
It's not difficult to get everything 'right' if the dance is safe and no risks are taken”
Sorry, this makes no sense. Technique should always be applied, it is there applied correctly or it is not applied at all. There is no middle ground
I an assuming the risks you keep mentioning concern the choreography not technique. You cannot take 'risks' with technique.It is what it is.
Originally Posted by Maggie 55:
“Oh dear!
So her Argentine Tango was not technically difficult or involved risk in some of the moves?
The fact that the judges said they had never seen one of the moves before and were incredulous at how they managed to pull it off.
Of course no doubt in your distorted view, they were all lying and protecting Louise because of some conspiracy.
It is the same every year.
Why don't you just concentrate on praising your favourite, rather than talking about and trying to talk down the competition with silly conspiracy theories.
The judges don't decide the winner of Strictly, has nobody told you?
Maggie”
“Oh dear!
So her Argentine Tango was not technically difficult or involved risk in some of the moves?
The fact that the judges said they had never seen one of the moves before and were incredulous at how they managed to pull it off.
Of course no doubt in your distorted view, they were all lying and protecting Louise because of some conspiracy.
It is the same every year.
Why don't you just concentrate on praising your favourite, rather than talking about and trying to talk down the competition with silly conspiracy theories.
The judges don't decide the winner of Strictly, has nobody told you?
Maggie”
You could have been describing Claudia's AT in those first 2 paragraphs. However, whereas Louise secured 10s from the judges for her AT Claudia managed only 9s last night. I think it is issues like this that cause the public feeling you describe.
I have no axe to grind with Kevin or Louise - in fact this season I have no axe to grind with any of the couples. Louise has done well some weeks and deserving of good marks. However, she often seems to escape criticism for average performances, especially when compared with judges response to other celebs, and her marks have often appeared very "generous" when compared with others.
Even before last night cha cha challenge I said to Mrs Posh that I expected Louise to come out on top from the judges, in order to get her top of the leader board and protect her, whether or not her dancing deserved. To my (albeit untrained) eye she did not deserve top spot.
The SCD Great British Public seem to respond to three factors on the show.
- They are disinclined to vote for ringers.
- They are inclined to vote for the underdog trier - Ed Balls this year.
- They are disinclined to vote for anyone they think is getting "favourable" treatment from
the judges but are inclined to vote for those being unfairly/harshly treated by the judges.
Many perceive that Louise/Kevin have been "favourably" treated by the judges on quite a few occasions.
I have nothing against the Cliftons. They don't bother me. Louise for me is just boring. The oh I am really just a Mum now, the I can't do this dance etc. Her AT was super but the rest is just middle of the road. Claudia dances better but gets lower marks apart from her Charleston. The judges praising her to high heaven each week, your timing etc is so perfect.
Lets put it this way if I had the choice of voting Louise or Ed, I'd vote Ed!
Lets put it this way if I had the choice of voting Louise or Ed, I'd vote Ed!
Originally Posted by Jennifer_F:
“Sorry, this makes no sense. Technique should always be applied, it is there applied correctly or it is not applied at all. There is no middle ground
I an assuming the risks you keep mentioning concern the choreography not technique. You cannot take 'risks' with technique.It is what it is.”
“Sorry, this makes no sense. Technique should always be applied, it is there applied correctly or it is not applied at all. There is no middle ground
I an assuming the risks you keep mentioning concern the choreography not technique. You cannot take 'risks' with technique.It is what it is.”
I think what people are getting at is that suppose you had a waltz with a spin turn into a turning lock to pp. Well that would be a lot more difficult than a spin turn into a reverse turn. However, discussion of difficulty requires a bit more analysis of dance content. Also there is a school of thought that, in competition, it is better to do something simple really well than something more difficult badly.
I agree with other posters that there is a problem with Louise's eyeline. I think the problem is the accelerated timescales. Usually people would try and nail the technique and then hone the performance. Given that she is less outgoing than Danny say, I don't think she is able to do the latter to the expectation of the viewing public in the timescale although all the celebs do really well to perform anything in my view.
Originally Posted by Liza with a Zee:
“Lovely woman, however, overmarked by judges. That gets people's back up.”
“Lovely woman, however, overmarked by judges. That gets people's back up.”
Absolutely
Originally Posted by davegold:
“Without wanting to get into this argument, I'd suggest the example would be Ore's long spin in his Viennese Waltz. The technique needed is the same throughout the spin but it more difficult for a celebrity dancer to maintain the technique the longer the spin continues.”
“Without wanting to get into this argument, I'd suggest the example would be Ore's long spin in his Viennese Waltz. The technique needed is the same throughout the spin but it more difficult for a celebrity dancer to maintain the technique the longer the spin continues.”
In this instance, Ore was not applying any technique, with all due respect to him and Jo. He was just dancing the steps, ie whilst rotating he had to remember which foot to put behind and which and when to cross. There was no technique applied and I would not expect it, you cannot learn how to dance the fleckerl PROPERLY quickly, it takes lots of practice
In any dance, ballroom or latin, learning, the steps is the easy part. Any poster on here could go into the studio and learn the steps, its the learning and application of the technique that is the difficult part.
Originally Posted by Ann_Dancer:
“I think what people are getting at is that suppose you had a waltz with a spin turn into a turning lock to pp. Well that would be a lot more difficult than a spin turn into a reverse turn. However, discussion of difficulty requires a bit more analysis of dance content. Also there is a school of thought that, in competition, it is better to do something simple really well than something more difficult badly.
I agree with other posters that there is a problem with Louise's eyeline. I think the problem is the accelerated timescales. Usually people would try and nail the technique and then hone the performance. Given that she is less outgoing than Danny say, I don't think she is able to do the latter to the expectation of the viewing public in the timescale although all the celebs do really well to perform anything in my view.”
“I think what people are getting at is that suppose you had a waltz with a spin turn into a turning lock to pp. Well that would be a lot more difficult than a spin turn into a reverse turn. However, discussion of difficulty requires a bit more analysis of dance content. Also there is a school of thought that, in competition, it is better to do something simple really well than something more difficult badly.
I agree with other posters that there is a problem with Louise's eyeline. I think the problem is the accelerated timescales. Usually people would try and nail the technique and then hone the performance. Given that she is less outgoing than Danny say, I don't think she is able to do the latter to the expectation of the viewing public in the timescale although all the celebs do really well to perform anything in my view.”
Good points Ann. Yes I would always "play safe" in competitions, that said , we have advanced choreography, Dances have to be well and truly rehearsed and practised, why show the judges something that may be less than your best, as perhaps it is problematic or just new. ? We would leave out groups that are not working and add them back in when they are up to standard.
I agree with all you say but would add the the dropped eyeline habit is lack of confidence I feel.
All the celebs do marvels each week, as I have said before, all kudos to them and their Pro's.
Originally Posted by Jennifer_F:
“In this instance, Ore was not applying any technique, with all due respect to him and Jo. He was just dancing the steps, ie whilst rotating he had to remember which foot to put behind and which and when to cross. There was no technique applied and I would not expect it, you cannot learn how to dance the fleckerl PROPERLY quickly, it takes lots of practice
In any dance, ballroom or latin, learning, the steps is the easy part. Any poster on here could go into the studio and learn the steps, its the learning and application of the technique that is the difficult part.”
“In this instance, Ore was not applying any technique, with all due respect to him and Jo. He was just dancing the steps, ie whilst rotating he had to remember which foot to put behind and which and when to cross. There was no technique applied and I would not expect it, you cannot learn how to dance the fleckerl PROPERLY quickly, it takes lots of practice
In any dance, ballroom or latin, learning, the steps is the easy part. Any poster on here could go into the studio and learn the steps, its the learning and application of the technique that is the difficult part.”
This was a helpful comment--I think I'm now beginning to better grasp what actually goes into these dances.
I enjoy your comments in general--thank you (and the other dancers on the forum) for taking the time to explain the underlying basics.
Originally Posted by Jennifer_F:
“Good points Ann. Yes I would always "play safe" in competitions, that said , we have advanced choreography, Dances have to be well and truly rehearsed and practised, why show the judges something that may be less than your best, as perhaps it is problematic or just new. ? We would leave out groups that are not working and add them back in when they are up to standard.
I agree with all you say but would add the the dropped eyeline habit is lack of confidence I feel.
All the celebs do marvels each week, as I have said before, all kudos to them and their Pro's.”
“Good points Ann. Yes I would always "play safe" in competitions, that said , we have advanced choreography, Dances have to be well and truly rehearsed and practised, why show the judges something that may be less than your best, as perhaps it is problematic or just new. ? We would leave out groups that are not working and add them back in when they are up to standard.
I agree with all you say but would add the the dropped eyeline habit is lack of confidence I feel.
All the celebs do marvels each week, as I have said before, all kudos to them and their Pro's.”
Yes, I agree that the dropped eyeline is definitely lack of confidence.
Originally Posted by choucroute:
“This was a helpful comment--I think I'm now beginning to better grasp what actually goes into these dances.
I enjoy your comments in general--thank you (and the other dancers on the forum) for taking the time to explain the underlying basics.”
“This was a helpful comment--I think I'm now beginning to better grasp what actually goes into these dances.
I enjoy your comments in general--thank you (and the other dancers on the forum) for taking the time to explain the underlying basics.
”
Thank you, hopefully we can give some unbiased views, opinions and information .Your comments are greatly appreciated.
I don't really like or dislike Kevin and I like Louise off the dance floor and find their dances nice. For me, it's what Len said to Judge Rinder last night - it's like she knows to 'put my arm there and my foot there' etc. and places everything neatly, but there's no feeling behind it or any real connection to the music or Kevin. The judges mentioned her lack of oomph a few times at the start of the series but then abandoned it, which is odd considering how they kept on at people like Rachel, Louis, Kara etc. in the past. I can see she has technique, but I think her dances overall could be so much 'more' but no one - Kevin or the judges - seems inclined to push her. I can't imagine in years to come that many people will be putting her dances in 'most memorable....' lists because they're pretty hard to remember by the end of each show.
Originally Posted by vald:
“Partly because of Kevin and partly because she is a threat to some people's favourite reaching the final. And of course it is entirely her fault if the judges compliment her or give her a decent score.😏”
“Partly because of Kevin and partly because she is a threat to some people's favourite reaching the final. And of course it is entirely her fault if the judges compliment her or give her a decent score.😏”
Well said, it's pathetic all the dislike for Louise.
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