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  • Strictly Come Dancing
Why are the Cliftons unpopular?
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Christopher D
30-11-2016
Originally Posted by The Swampster:
“The trouble with all these "contenders" Kevin has allegedly had is that they are conveniently viewed in hindsight - after any 'value' that Kevin as a teacher may have added to them. I'm pretty sure nearly all of the contestants view themselves as contenders but history shows us that only a narrow range - particularly among the women - actually are.

For example, did you know that Caroline Flack - who turned 35 during her series - is, by some margin, the oldest woman ever to win Strictly?

Of Kevin's enviable line-up of "contenders", only one came in below that age - Frankie Bridge, who was 25 at the time. The rest: Susannah Reid (42 in 2013 - and 43 by the time the final arrived); Kellie Bright (39 in 2015) and Louise Redknapp (42) were all a fair few years older than the oldest-ever female Strictly winner. The next-oldest female Strictly champ was Natasha Kaplinsky at a mere 31 way back in the first series. The other four were in their 20s. You can argue that age doesn't matter, but apparently it does to the voters, at least when it comes to females.

It seems to apply to the professional dancers, too. The eldest pro dancer is Natalie Lowe who's 36 and has been the subject of a bit of 'will this be her last year' speculation. All the new female pros - Katya, Oksana and Oti - are in their 20s.

I'm sure those who dislike Kevin will find plenty of reasons to carry on doing just that, but this mythical list of "contenders" is in my view a bit deluded. With a few exceptions, all the contestants start out to some extent as potential contenders. Mercifully there simply are not enough Ann Widdecombes and Alison Hammonds to go round. And while the show keeps on Anton (age 50) and Brendan (40), it's not altogether surprising that they put the older, less fit ladies their way.
Anyway, apart from Lesley - excellent, despite being the show's oldest contestant - who WAS the female duffer this year? Tameka maybe? She was the first woman off but she had the same sort of stage school/musical theatre background that posters are getting into a lather over Danny about. If Kevin had done well with Tameka she'd have been called a ringer.
Naga perhaps? She has the same sort of background as Susannah Reid (though younger, at 41), and if Kevin had helped her over her confidence issues she'd no doubt have been declared a contender, too.
The truth is, Kevin can't win. The better he teaches people, the more convinced some people are that there's an evil BBC conspiracy to help him win. There's no earthly reason for them to want to do that. They really, really could not care less who wins. They just want people to keep watching.”

Good post which I agree with. But its not just the women since Chris Hollins won all the male winners have been well under 30. Its seems that the young men are popular with the Strictly demographic. Danny is also under 30. I would say that all the young male winners could dance but they were not always the best dancer.
primer
30-11-2016
Originally Posted by The Swampster:
“I don't claim to have inside knowledge of the thoughts of "the powers that be", but apart from the fact that I see no particular benefit to the BBC in having a British pro win, their actions do not reflect this aim. If they wanted a British winner so badly, surely they'd start by hiring more British dancers? Of the 15 pro dancers who were given celebrity partners this year, a mere four are Brits: AJ, Anton, Kevin and Joanne. The other 11 are foreign-born.

The show hired three new female dancers this year - Russian Katya, Ukrainian Oksana and British Chloe - and left Chloe on the sidelines along with new British male dancer Neil Jones. Meanwhile Neil's Russian wife got partnered up as did Spanish new arrival Gorka.
How does this increase the chances of a British winner? I'd add that if they specifically wanted Kevin to win, statistically, putting him with a partner under 40 would be a very good place to start.

I agree the programme put his Grimsby-ness front and centre - though this happened mostly in the first series. My feeling is that they thought it was an amusing counterbalance to the slew of exotic, sexy-accented foreign male dancers like Pasha, Aljaz and Artem (who was still there at the time). A gingerish bloke called Kevin who came from a northern port like Grimsby probably seemed like the antithesis of the Strictly sparkle and glamour, and they played it for all it was worth. To be honest, I got sick of it too, and I like Kevin. I agree with your point that he is a victim of the narrative of the show.”

thanks for this, a thoughtful and well argued post.
jtnorth
30-11-2016
Originally Posted by Christopher D:
“Good post which I agree with. But its not just the women since Chris Hollins won all the male winners have been well under 30. Its seems that the young men are popular with the Strictly demographic. Danny is also under 30. I would say that all the young male winners could dance but they were not always the best dancer.”

I could say the same of Abbey and Caroline.
LaughingSock
30-11-2016
Oh, I don't know. The Cliftons just give off a very "Stepford Wives" vibe to me. I've never quite enjoyed the "we're so perfect and wholesome and cheerful and lovey and..." stuff. They feel like they've come off a "Dancer Barbie and Ken" assembly line at Mattel.

*shrug* Just a gut feeling.
Rhumbatugger
30-11-2016
Originally Posted by LaughingSock:
“Oh, I don't know. The Cliftons just give off a very "Stepford Wives" vibe to me. I've never quite enjoyed the "we're so perfect and wholesome and cheerful and lovey and..." stuff. They feel like they've come off a "Dancer Barbie and Ken" assembly line at Mattel.

*shrug* Just a gut feeling.”

Interesting. I think they are almost the opposite of Ken and Barbie - they don't either look or act like those stereotypes. Rather they are both more quirky and ordinary, and Joanne is channelling Miranda Richardson.

None of them seem to take themselves seriously either.

But we see what we see.
lee_morris4
30-11-2016
Originally Posted by Rhumbatugger:
“Interesting. I think they are almost the opposite of Ken and Barbie - they don't either look or act like those stereotypes. Rather they are both more quirky and ordinary, and Joanne is channelling Miranda Richardson.

None of them seem to take themselves seriously either.

But we see what we see.”

We most definitely do, don't we! No different to likening someone to a thunderbird!lol
Moany Liza
30-11-2016
Oh dear... it appears that some people around here have completely mislaid their senses of humour.

It was quite clearly a joke and not even remotely "personal". Also, there was no "name calling" involved, so it might be helpful and honest to stop stirring the pot by making things up which did not happen.

As I have said more times than I care to remember, I am no more or less appreciative of any of the members of the Clifton clan than I am of any of the other pro dancers. I like them all equally and think they all do an amazing job with their pro partners. Furthermore, it matters to me not one iota who wins Strictly. I watch it purely for the entertainment - and not because it matters to me who wins. I really don't care. Now, talk to me about "over-investment" again....

I'm not the one looking for negative things about the show, the pro dancers and the celebrities in order to be gratuitously critical - if not actually downright nasty - about them. THAT'S over-investment. There are a lot of people on here who apparently "get off" on this sort of thing but nobody should expect never to be challenged for spurious - and in some cases entirely fallacious comments - about the participants... but challenging it doesn't make me - or indeed anyone who does so - a "fan" of anybody.

By all means, carry on berating them and slating them left, right and centre if you like.... but don't expect to get it all your own way or think it's appropriate to sulk when someone teases you for the grumpiness or the sheer ridiculousness of some of the criticism.

Lighten up - it's a wonderful, joyful show and the Clifton professionals make as much of a meaningful contribution to its success as all the other dancers.
Fuchsia Groan
30-11-2016
Originally Posted by Rhumbatugger:
“Interesting. I think they are almost the opposite of Ken and Barbie - they don't either look or act like those stereotypes. Rather they are both more quirky and ordinary, and Joanne is channelling Miranda Richardson.

None of them seem to take themselves seriously either.


But we see what we see.”

That's the charm of them from my point of view - they are full of vivacity and joie de vivre and care not one jot for po faced introspection. What you see is what you get, which is an honest take on life by what, to all intents and purposes, is a thoroughly decent family who are also high achievers. There is a great deal to admire, in my opinion.
megashopper
30-11-2016
I'm still not keen on Kevin, though I feel bad about not liking him.
I am warming to Joanne.
Can't stand Karen, have no idea why someone like that married Kevin.

Meg
edy10
30-11-2016
I suspect that having a duffer would tremendously warm kevin to some people and he will most likely win the show the year after having that duffer. Hopefully next year, they give him a contestant like Widdy or Judy Murray; someone not necessarily that old but someone who is quite mediocre.
lee_morris4
30-11-2016
Originally Posted by Moany Liza:
“Oh dear... it appears that some people around here have completely mislaid their senses of humour.

It was quite clearly a joke and not even remotely "personal". Also, there was no "name calling" involved, so it might be helpful and honest to stop stirring the pot by making things up which did not happen.

As I have said more times than I care to remember, I am no more or less appreciative of any of the members of the Clifton clan than I am of any of the other pro dancers. I like them all equally and think they all do an amazing job with their pro partners. Furthermore, it matters to me not one iota who wins Strictly. I watch it purely for the entertainment - and not because it matters to me who wins. I really don't care. Now, talk to me about "over-investment" again....

I'm not the one looking for negative things about the show, the pro dancers and the celebrities in order to be gratuitously critical - if not actually downright nasty - about them. THAT'S over-investment. There are a lot of people on here who apparently "get off" on this sort of thing but nobody should expect never to be challenged for spurious - and in some cases entirely fallacious comments - about the participants... but challenging it doesn't make me - or indeed anyone who does so - a "fan" of anybody.

By all means, carry on berating them and slating them left, right and centre if you like.... but don't expect to get it all your own way or think it's appropriate to sulk when someone teases you for the grumpiness or the sheer ridiculousness of some of the criticism.

Lighten up - it's a wonderful, joyful show and the Clifton professionals make as much of a meaningful contribution to its success as all the other dancers. ”

Not sure if you're referring to me? But I do agree with your sentiment ! Just really pisses me off when in this thread the cliftons are likened to ken & barbie and on another thread Danny was likened to a thunderbird, i honestly can't see the reasoning behind these kind of remarks, they feel like personal attacks! If I was famous and asked to do this show, I think I'd either run for the hills or get a bloody good crash helmet! (Ideally with extra ear plugs)lolx
aggs
30-11-2016
Originally Posted by megashopper:
“I'm still not keen on Kevin, though I feel bad about not liking him.
I am warming to Joanne.
Can't stand Karen, have no idea why someone like that married Kevin.

Meg”

In what way?
I might have issues with her dancing in the standard ballroom/Latin - although kudos to her, she does seem to be improving there herself - but she seems a perfectly pleasant, normal person.
And Kevin has the slightly bemused, confused look of a bloke who really can't believe his luck
Rhumbatugger
30-11-2016
Originally Posted by aggs:
“In what way?
I might have issues with her dancing in the standard ballroom/Latin - although kudos to her, she does seem to be improving there herself - but she seems a perfectly pleasant, normal person.
And Kevin has the slightly bemused, confused look of a bloke who really can't believe his luck ”

Well put - made me laugh
Rhumbatugger
30-11-2016
Originally Posted by Fuchsia Groan:
“That's the charm of them from my point of view - they are full of vivacity and joie de vivre and care not one jot for po faced introspection. What you see is what you get, which is an honest take on life by what, to all intents and purposes, is a thoroughly decent family who are also high achievers. There is a great deal to admire, in my opinion.”

I agree.
Rhumbatugger
30-11-2016
Originally Posted by lee_morris4:
“Not sure if you're referring to me? But I do agree with your sentiment ! Just really pisses me off when in this thread the cliftons are likened to ken & barbie and on another thread Danny was likened to a thunderbird, i honestly can't see the reasoning behind these kind of remarks, they feel like personal attacks! If I was famous and asked to do this show, I think I'd either run for the hills or get a bloody good crash helmet! (Ideally with extra ear plugs)lolx”

You need to lighten up a bit lee. You'll get used to it.
lee_morris4
30-11-2016
Originally Posted by Rhumbatugger:
“You need to lighten up a bit lee. You'll get used to it.”

You're the blinking one that's winding me up!lol don't know if you're male or female but you're driving me up the pole,lolx. Think me and you just need to agree to disagree!x
Rhumbatugger
30-11-2016
Originally Posted by lee_morris4:
“You're the blinking one that's winding me up!lol don't know if you're male or female but you're driving me up the pole,lolx. Think me and you just need to agree to disagree!x”

Why so serious?
lee_morris4
30-11-2016
I'm truly not! Just sometimes I see things that get my back up! Know I shouldn't respond but sometimes can't help myself! Always regret it after and then don't post for ages again! I'm actually one of the laid back and funniest people I know lol!x
coppertop1
30-11-2016
Originally Posted by Moany Liza:
“Oh dear... it appears that some people around here have completely mislaid their senses of humour.

It was quite clearly a joke and not even remotely "personal". Also, there was no "name calling" involved, so it might be helpful and honest to stop stirring the pot by making things up which did not happen.

As I have said more times than I care to remember, I am no more or less appreciative of any of the members of the Clifton clan than I am of any of the other pro dancers. I like them all equally and think they all do an amazing job with their pro partners. Furthermore, it matters to me not one iota who wins Strictly. I watch it purely for the entertainment - and not because it matters to me who wins. I really don't care. Now, talk to me about "over-investment" again....

I'm not the one looking for negative things about the show, the pro dancers and the celebrities in order to be gratuitously critical - if not actually downright nasty - about them. THAT'S over-investment. There are a lot of people on here who apparently "get off" on this sort of thing but nobody should expect never to be challenged for spurious - and in some cases entirely fallacious comments - about the participants... but challenging it doesn't make me - or indeed anyone who does so - a "fan" of anybody.

By all means, carry on berating them and slating them left, right and centre if you like.... but don't expect to get it all your own way or think it's appropriate to sulk when someone teases you for the grumpiness or the sheer ridiculousness of some of the criticism.

Lighten up - it's a wonderful, joyful show and the Clifton professionals make as much of a meaningful contribution to its success as all the other dancers. ”

Ah it was a joke: good to know

You seem like a very angry person.

What's wrong with you, you need to lie down under a blanket and have a biscuit!
Dervlathedog
30-11-2016
Originally Posted by coppertop1:
“Ah it was a joke: good to know

You seem like a very angry person.

What's wrong with you, you need to lie down under a blanket and have a biscuit!”

Sounds good to me. I wish all bits of advice were as pleasant
Rhumbatugger
30-11-2016
Originally Posted by lee_morris4:
“I'm truly not! Just sometimes I see things that get my back up! Know I shouldn't respond but sometimes can't help myself! Always regret it after and then don't post for ages again! I'm actually one of the laid back and funniest people I know lol!x”

That's alright then.

I'm not altogether serious you know. Danny seems decent enough, but he gets a very easy ride, is no. one, has got on the whole, great costumes, good tunes, good theming and Oti, and all the 'it's so unfair' stuff, when he still flamin' wins all the time, annoys me a bit.

And anyway, all the others get a lot of flak, bar Claudia I suppose, so I'm just evening it up a bit.

Sides, I do find him rather boring and anodyne and that's fine.

And he does look like a thunderbird puppet. It's only so annoying because it's got the horrible ring of truth.
Rhumbatugger
30-11-2016
Originally Posted by Dervlathedog:
“Sounds good to me. I wish all bits of advice were as pleasant”

Nice to see Coppertop with her kindly, non ranty head on
Moany Liza
30-11-2016
Originally Posted by coppertop1:
“Ah it was a joke: good to know

You seem like a very angry person.

What's wrong with you, you need to lie down under a blanket and have a biscuit!”

You couldn't be more wrong. I'm not angry at all - and certainly never over a discussion about a light entertainment programme on television. I don't think anything I've posted on this forum could possibly suggest it either.

I'd be delighted to snuggle down under a blanket and yes, a biscuit would be most welcome, thanks.

... or a Jaffa Cake, if that happens to be available.
Moany Liza
30-11-2016
Originally Posted by lee_morris4:
“Not sure if you're referring to me? But I do agree with your sentiment ! Just really pisses me off when in this thread the cliftons are likened to ken & barbie and on another thread Danny was likened to a thunderbird, i honestly can't see the reasoning behind these kind of remarks, they feel like personal attacks! If I was famous and asked to do this show, I think I'd either run for the hills or get a bloody good crash helmet! (Ideally with extra ear plugs)lolx”

I don't believe so, no.
lee_morris4
30-11-2016
Originally Posted by Rhumbatugger:
“That's alright then.

I'm not altogether serious you know. Danny seems decent enough, but he gets a very easy ride, is no. one, has got on the whole, great costumes, good tunes, good theming and Oti, and all the 'it's so unfair' stuff, when he still flamin' wins all the time, annoys me a bit.

And anyway, all the others get a lot of flak, bar Claudia I suppose, so I'm just evening it up a bit.

Sides, I do find him rather boring and anodyne and that's fine.

And he does look like a thunderbird puppet. It's only so annoying because it's got the horrible ring of truth.”

I don't say any of those things, I just enjoy their dancing, and tbh, me and my girlfriends couldn't disagree with you more about the thunderbird puppet thing, cos not one of us would kick him out of Bed!lol. Bit of a worry me saying that tho, as I did have a crush on Scott Tracey when I was a kid, honestly didn't know he was a puppet! Even worse I also had a crush on Val Doonican!lol. (Must stress was about 8 yrs old at the time - 4 months off 50 now, so prob doesn't count)
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