Nah, not enough grease in his hair

Imagine him after he's been lovingly played with by a small child with a cold...

No, sorry - Anton has that crown, followed by Brendan. I think the difference is they have hung around long enough to have come out on the other side into 'grudging affection'. Give Kevin another 10 years and he'll be the same.
Artem had a whole thread dedicated to how rubbish he is, in response to much sniggering and sniding in his first year.
Darren Bennet had number of threads about his hair/weave/wig.
There's really nothing new.

Oh my and I thought I was being slightly mean


To the extent Kevin has? I don't think I've seen more than a couple of threads re Anton or Brendan on the front page before and Artem the same.

Obviously I could be wrong and am not about to go digging through the years but I still think Kevin has far more be it directly about him or as part of being lumped in with the other Cliftons.

There were rather a lot of comments one year about "little Anton", AKA his mic pack position.

Well Anton has spent the best part of 14 years being derided for his Latin, his chest hair, his Latin, his sense of humour, his Latin, his romper suits, his Latin, Widdy, his Latin ...

I think this is right. In Appreciation land, I've not seen anywhere the slightest inclination to adore either Karen or Kevin. It's disingenuous to suggest that the Clifton obsession is driven by hordes of people who drool over them. It's driven by the (to me) inexplicable antipathy of a minority.

I am largely indifferent to 'the Cliftons' (not to Jo. I like her lots) but I can see what's wrong with the prejudice against the family. Poor sods!

I wonder bleakly if there's a natural human instinct to group against something or someone. Quite rightly the old-fashioned prejudices are out (or were out; maybe they're in again post-Trump, post-Brexit) but the instinct to raise yourself up in a group through the belittling of something or someone remains strong.

Dunno.

Uhmm no , there was Aliona, Brendan and especially Anton as well. It's just that nowadays Aliona left and during her series with Jay, people opinions about her changed quite a bit. She used to be critized for any and everything here. As far as Anton and Brendan are concerned , people's opinions about them also changed quite a bit overtime.

Well said Dervla! I agree 100%. And that's all I'm saying on this thread.

E

I am glad you posted this and glad you are all right.

As for me I am incorrigible here I am again.

Just to echo your points there is a time a place for apologies. Swiftly and not after 1/2 a dozen excuses would seem the opportune moment.

Is there a difference between disliking an individual for -- examples plucked at random -- having pink hair, being bolshy or crap at latin -- and picking on a family group?

I'm not asking you because you're 'guilty' of it, edy! Just that your post is the last one there and it made me think.

Disliking an identifiable family triggers more unease in me because it's on the way towards a thing that has more to do with hatred of a group. Like disliking the Roma, for example.

Again, I'm NOT accusing you or anyone of that. It's just that individual/group thing has occurred to me and doesn't make me feel comfortable.

We need the DS version of West Side Story to break up the clannishness

Very well expressed, Dervla - and I concur.

What?
Because I find the antics of a couple of people on a bit of fluff of a Saturday night, who just happen to be related, amusing it's responsible for all the ills of the world?

If it makes you feel any easier, I'd find them amusing even if they weren't related.

v


Dunno, like a smiley face does really negate the felling of superiority coming across in this post.

Since when did this thread turn into a " people have to verify with triple citations their dislike of the Cliftons" or they are accused of being like Trump or Brexit supporters , I am sure there are many cross overs, those who like the Cliftons and would have voted for Brexit and Trump, incidentally.

I haven't posted in the Loiuse thread but I notice there is a " you people " in there again.

We can challenge one another's views but this thread and the other really is taking the biscuit, there really is nothing wrong with people disliking the Cliftons.

There really is something wrong when such people are challenged and labelled.
Eta challenged to justify their dislike to the nth degree.

One can of course challenge but there is a point where beyond I just don't like there is nothing to say. It doesn't mean that because of attrition any one has won.

As such completely fed up now and have asked the mods for this thread to be closed due incidentally to people who don't label themselves as fans but feel seem to feel a very emotional connection to the Cliftons that seems to go way beyond neutrality.

That's not what I said and I believe you know that

Again, that's not what I said and I hope you know that

I truely have no idea. You lost this bear of very little brain completely, I'm afraid.

I just come on here to chew the fat about a tele programme and poke a bit of irreverent fun if the whimsey takes me. No more nuh less than than.

When 2 separate people have reached the same conclusion about 2 seperate posts of yours perhaps looking at what you have actually posted might be a good idea.

Now this I *do* agree with. Rights are universal and inalienable. We all have them (or ought to) and that means *everyone*

PS - appalled by Trump (and the rest of them) and voted against Brexit. So agree thoroughly with the poster who felt uncomfortable about taking against groups as a slippery slope to hate crime and prejudice. But, here's the thing, lots of people will have horrible prejudices and opinions. They're entitled to them. It's the *acting* on them that's the issue. Plus, not aware that the Clifdens are a recognised minority under the Equality Act.

Ironically it's not the people who dislike the Cliftons 'grouping against something.'

Well, I haven't thought it through so I doubt I'm being any more clear than usual. For whatever reason, it's not Kevin and Karen and Jo alone but 'the Cliftons' who seem to be targetable, and that makes it feel different... I mean, apart from the fact that they are family by birth and marriage, it would be hard to imagine a more disparate bunch of people than Kevin, Karen and Jo. But it feels from here that the perceived misdeeds or antics of one feeds into a response to the others too??

I really don't know. And as I said in one of my posts above, I'm not accusing anyone of any of that truly bad stuff. It's just the way my laggy old amygdala is responding to the undercurrents.

Memo to self: don't think aloud on forum

Totally agree with bit in bold, well said, it's used as a belittling stick imo, make out the person is a fanatic and laugh at them thereby rendering their argument void.

I am same as you in that I like one Clifton a lot (Karen) and find the others okay, fine, they don't set my world on fire but I think they do a decent job.

Don't you mean agreeing? Surely that is not an issue.

Ahhh, I'm at fault.

Is that right? See the difference here is that I might consider this. Those two posts clearly tapped into something that's creating a reaction.

But while you're asking me to go introspective, would you do that too? Genuine question. Or rather, cards on the table, genuine invitation.

I think 'The Cliftons' has just become a short of shorthand, in the same way people say 'The Judges'. No one would call Craig/Darcey/Len/Bruno anything other than disparte but for general moaning purposes they become an amorphous blob.

As far as 'The Cliftons' are concerned, I find the Kevin arm hilarious, the Joanne arm slightly annoying and the Karen arm fair enough provided I don't have to look at her feet.