That kick Kevin does at the beginning of every show EVERY week annoys me to no end! Plus his over the top nature and the fact he gets a good partner every year is enough for me to dislike him. Also the judges constantly fawn over him and his partners and it often feels like they want him to win every year. I've never rooted for any of his partners.

Karen is just always 'me me me'. Whenever there's a group dance. Karen and Kevin are in the front or one of the focal points. Or whenever they're in the Clauditorium, Karen is somewhere near the front. I also don't rate her choreography.

I don't mind Joanne. She seems okay.

Not in appearance. I thought it was refreshing how natural she looked when she started but was disappointed by the way she has followed the trend of becoming a peroxide blonde, particularly as the millions of watchers will know what she did look like before.

The dayglo lippy last night made the artificial look even worse.

Darker hair definitely suited her better. I don't like what the hair department have been doing to her in recent weeks either.

I noticed last night that Louise was very half hearted in joining in with 'that' kick. I so wish he would sort out Louise spotting the floor, rather than allowing her to carry on and use it a deliberate artifice in the waltz. Far more noticeable in the Cha Cha Challenge so coming top of that looks like deliberate favouritism by the judges (I suspect Craig argued this one & lost).

Think Jo has been really good with Ore, though his energy levels have been a bit hit and miss and his hands can be very stiff.

Think Karen was robbed this year by Will leaving. She has a talent with the less than good, which is often overlooked, but can be OTT if she gets someone who can move.

Whilst I've been unsure of Kevin being favoured up to now I started to see it last night - recalling how AJ, Giovanni and Natalie have been slammed for choreography this series how did they get 39 for a Waltz which was barely half in hold???

I like Joanne and Karen. The latter was very unfortunate with Will's departure and Joanne's done very well with Ore, the week one (?) Tango aside... which also got criticised choreographically!

Another Clifton bashing thread?

No wonder this board is insanely boring this year...

Jo reminds me of a young Karen Hardy, who I never liked in terms of personality or dancing, so for me it is not a good combination with Ore who I don't like either. She has toned down a lot since her first year though and with a likeable partner I think she would be ok.

Kevin is fine - I don't really like his dancing style but he appears to be a very good teacher and I think some of the dances he has produced from terrible seeming songs/themes, such as his Boom Shake the room samba with Kellie, have been very good. I do think it's a shame that none of his partners will ever produce a dance with real passionate chemistry because he is just not sexy in that way (the same could be said about Anton though). Louise doesn't seem to want anything like that anyway, but I think Frankie could've produced something much more exciting than the sometimes twee routines she did with Kevin, had she had another partner.

With all due respect perhaps there is a reason for these threads perhaps just perhaps a lot of f/m's think there is something not likeable about the Cliftons and also they may feel get preferential treatment on the show. There is a lot of people who believe there are issues and you may find that boring but others may feel they would like to give their opinion after all it a discussion Forum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atQ9HilBcAQ

Kevin and Karen actually won the above - Celebrity Mr and Mrs - and they come across on it as a bit over the top to me - particularly Karen. I think they are pretty lairy in their life together.

Jo was not Jo with dark hair - she only dyed it dark at the BBC's request when she joined the show - although now dyed she is a natural blonde - her roots are not brown but a dark blonde - most reactions I have seen from people who have known her over the years was that it was good to see Jo back

First post of the series. I didn't really see all the hate on the Clifton's and didn't really hate them myself per se .... then my sister pointed something out to me which now cannot escape my notice every single week. Admittedly I am now looking for it but Jo Clifton in particular makes it really easy for it not to.

I can't really say much about Karen. I read on this thread about the thing between her and Ola in 2013 and I remember it though I have since warmed to her. The job she did with Mark Wright and the problems she faced this year with Will where everything didn't really look as it seemed so I feel a bit sorry for her there. The issue that I have lies with the fact we see two different Karen's over each show. We see the Karen with best friend Janette who does all the hugging, cheering on each contestant and sharing the same consensus of the group that a 4 for Ed or 6/7 for Judge Rinder/Claudia might have been a little harsh some weeks. Then you see the Karen with Kevin/Jo when Ore/Louise are getting marked and you see a totally different side of her where an 8/9 from Craig sees Karen's reaction change that the mark was so harsh he might as well have plunged the scoring paddle right in her heart after giving his mark. The way that she and Joanne kept shouting "undermarked, undermarked, undermarked ..." was really classless and Jo in particular should remember that she's actually still in competition with her brother and their respective celebs and only one (if any) of them can win the show, therefore it would actually be to her (and Ore's) advantage if the dance was undermarked (which 39 out of potential 40 is not IMHO).

Coming on to Jo, I really liked her in the beginning. What she did with Scott Mills was amazing and I really commended her for trying to shield him from some of the judges' harsh and at times irrelevant comments in regards to his efforts. However, looking back there are two problems with this. The first is that the judges are there to give their opinion based on the dance they have seen and it is in the public's best interest to have it pointed out or in some cases confirmed to them what the limitations of a particular celeb are. It's like we've seen in this (and other series') with Ed Balls that the British public have so far voted for him regardless and it could well transpire tonight that we have continued to do so. The second problem is that Scott was (and still is) a big boy and I'm sure big enough to listen to and make a decision to accept the expert's opinions whilst letting the public know he's still enjoying it and loving each new dance. By shielding Scott, Jo was encouraging him to believe what he even knew by the end was not true and whilst I agree that some of the opinions were cutting and weren't needed it was up to Scott to say it was either harsh or he didn't agree rather than Jo doing it for him. Coming on to this series. I loved their Jive and think the marks were well deserved. It was a dance that made me cry before the marks were even given. The issue is since that point, for want of a better phrase Jo has gone "fishing" for praise and high marks where they have not been deserved and I've seen Jo pull her face when it's not been given. You can clearly see from her face that her reaction "that's ok" to an 8 from Craig is actually not ok. There have also been tendencies from Jo to make the dances about her particularly the Rumba (ok the woman's dance but still .... ) and last night in the Paso - I have more of a problem with this because this is the man's dance and at the end of it Ore appeared to have been in that bull fight and lost! The last thing that annoys me is during the result when their waiting for the results, though I appreciate it is nerve-wracking for both professional and celebrity the way she celebrates is grating. It reminds me of kids in P.E being picked to play in a certain team after the respective captains have chosen their mates or any other good players but been given the nod ahead of the bad/unpopular kids.

The only couple of things that annoy me about Kevin is that silly kick that he does at the end of the Strictly theme when the couples first come out after the judges. What happens in the event that he (or his celebrity partner) fall awkwardly on their ankle and in the event are unable to dance? At the very least if a fall was to happen it'd be majorly embarrassing for the pair of them and here's hoping if it happens that they aren't dressed in red at the time. The other thing that annoys me is what's already been said in that he's had potential winning partners on each of his four seasons. Let's go through these one by one ...

First season Susanna Reid. Who knew how good she would have been? That's not Kevin's fault. He can only work with what's in front of him as can any professional. If I remember rightly she did have some very poor latin dances in particular Samba and Salsa which did not suit her at all. Potentially for the Salsa too she had very ill-fitting music which was neither her and probably nor Kevin's fault and they progressed to the final at the expense again of some very poor comments from the judges particularly towards the men that year where Ashley-Taylor Dawson in particular suffered from some very poor comments and marks from the judges highlighting things from him that they'd let Susanna and other celebrities off with prior in the series. Again not potentially Kevin's fault but still. What did get them noticed though was that Paso in Blackpool and the potential to see that again in the final. I personally didn't think it was that good but I'm not an expert and happy to go with those that are ... again poor Ashley Taylor-Dawson suffered here getting the same dance in the same venue with a contemporary song versus a professional doing his most-favoured dance to traditional music. Again not Kevin's fault but I was annoyed for Ashley (and Ola) who were undermarked by comparison.

Second he had Frankie Bridge. Even if I wasn't a fan of the show, I'd definitely have had her as a pick for the final regardless of who she had as a professional partner. It's also not their fault that Donny Osmond got very excited during his time on the show giving them a 10 ... though again for a Paso; Kevin's favourite dance. What annoyed me was that every time the results were called that during the reaction point Kevin kept calling her "Frankenstein" though that's a matter for her and not for me to pull him up on regardless of whether it made me cringe or not.

Last year he had Kellie Bright. I really don't know with this one. Did Kellie exceed expectations? Was she that good to begin with? Sometimes their dances (Charleston, Samba, VW) were very cliché possibly but again executed well by Kellie and Kevin is in a lot of way to thank for that. Also, Kellie was involved in one of the best if not THE best ongoing soap storylines of the year which fans of both Strictly and EastEnders knew was coming to a head. Neither Kevin nor Kellie's fault though I think in some part contributed to the albeit deserved fanbase they had.

This year he has Louise Redknapp. Again I think he may be criticised the same if he had Claudia or Daisy for example though with Daisy there may have been a slight height issue potentially so Aljaz probably better so then again maybe Laura is a better example in this case or putting Lesley with Kevin, and Louise with Anton. What the producers possibly couldn't do is see Louise struggling with her Latin because as we've seen her ballroom is just as strong if not better as anyone decent that Anton has had in the show so again this is not necessarily Kevin's fault that he's again been given a potential finalist.

I'm not sure Susanna/Kellie for me were marked as potential finalists at the start of the show though the Kevin from Grimsby tag certainly helped (though equally could have hindered) in the first series and for that reason I personally am cutting Kevin some slack; I'll cut Karen again, the same slack but Jo? Nah ... I love Ore but I'm not seeing Ore dancing so much as seeing Jo dance around him - something Len in particular has criticised professionals both here and across the pond for in previous series of Strictly and seasons of Dancing with the Stars.

Gordon Bennett.

He's always undermarked.

#justiceforgordonbennett

Judges' pet.

I don't dislike them as much as some people do but, win or lose, Kevin better get a duffer next year.

They aren't, its just a few people on here

I really like Jo, I think she's a stunning ballroom dancer and her choreography has generally been fabulous this series (week 1 aside). She and Ore seem to be a great and genuine partnership and friendship and I love watching them.

Karen I can take or leave - I think she's brilliant with the less able dancers (Dave Myers and Jeremy Vine), but she didn't seem to cope too well with Mark Wright's lack of commitment to training, though I did love their very different Rumba. I find her a bit over the top and slightly irritating sometimes, and she's not my favourite to watch as a dancer either.

Kevin does irritate me. I don't particularly like his choreography - last night was a classic case in point, he could do a far better Waltz than that with someone of Louise's ability, but instead it might as well have been an American Smooth for all the time they spent in hold, and given it included an illegal lift! He's not managed to get much in the way of performance out of Louise either, and it doesn't seem to me as if they get on nearly as well as some of the other couples. I find the kick thing at the start and the yelling and falling to the floor when they get called safe each week pretty annoying as well. It's not his fault he's had several good partners (I find it absurd when people say they dislike him purely because of that), but it is in his control how memorable he makes them as dancers and as a partnership, and I think the number of times he's been in the final and not won says a lot in that respect.

People are going to have different opinions on each of the professional dancers just like they do the celebs. But there's a difference between voicing a negative opinion and reasons for it and simply saying you "hate" someone, and I think that's why the number of "Clifton-bashing" threads are starting to grate on some people...

Thanks for the inside knowledge, Bendymixer. That puts a different slant on it.

Doesn't actually change my own opinion that she looked very natural and glowing when she first appeared, but not so much now.

Quite right that she would most value the opinions of those close to her, though.

BIB yes I'm glad someone else noticed this. Again picked up on with certain contestants early on but not last night with a clear judge's favourite

This...


... and this

To this day he still calls her that - so don't think Frankie minds too much, her and Wayne are good friends still with Kevin and Karen and took them out for birthday dinner last month.

I watched ITT when he mentioned that and it's fair enough she doesn't mind. It's merely a personal preference and would make me cringe a little if I was a celeb partnered with him and he named me by a pet name I'd still cringe a little as I don't like pet names at the best of times.

I quite like Kevin but, Frankie aside, I've never really liked any of his partners. I can understand why people get fed up with him and he is long overdue a duffer.

Karen I can take or leave. I wasn't keen on her in her first year but I think she's been a good sport when paired with the duffers but she's never really had any real chemistry with her potentially good partners.

I can't take to Joanne, just find her weirdly childlike, but I'm prepared to accept that's me, not her.

It's a mostly unreasoning phenomenon

I had no idea the Cliftons were disliked! Must be living in a parallel universe.
They are good at what they do, so why?

Once on ITT, maybe last year, I thought Joanne was OTT and embarrassingly childish but that doesn't take anything away from her skill.

They are not my favourite professionals (Aliaz, Natalie and Oti are), but they seem pretty good to me.