The BBC should be very proud of having 3 great dancers in the show, long may they continue.
However, maybe it's because I have read too much on these forums but I have noticed a Kevin bias in marking from the judges over the years and once you see something it's hard not to look for it. It's not Kevin's fault but boy is it annoying, however I am no expert and I rarely vote. One thing for sure people respond to unfairness and the judges in the end are doing Kevin and his partners no favours at all.

Disagree completely with your first paragraph............but agree completely with your second paragraph

No I understand what you are saying. It does go back to the point I made earlier about when she was covering Scott's ears for example when they were paired. I can understand her encouraging a children she teaches to do such things if it was their very first time in front of a judge and they got widely criticised though that again is potentially Jo's fault for thinking they're ready for it. Scott is a grown man and can easily take what the judges are saying whether harsh or not. He doesn't have to accept their opinion and has the right to reply as does anyone. Covering someone's ears is not a reply and highly immature.

Again I go back to getting the results especially this series. The whole hanging her head in relief when her and Ore's names are "finally" called out as if their names should be the first to be called out all the time.

I really like all three Cliftons. Seem genuine people who have a passion for dancing.

I've personally concluded that I don't have a problem with Kevin or Karen as a few minor things aside it's not their fault potentially. With Jo it is clear to me that her childlike behaviour though endearing if played the right way (as Oti does) is not endearing in Jo's case as she comes across to me as "throwing her toys out of the pram". when something goes wrong. Kevin also has the potential to do this. It comes at points where they get marks they don't like or a comment they don't agree with that is potentially damaging to the celeb they're partnered with. It also sometimes rubs off on the celeb and could be seen in particular with both Susanna and Frankie when they did their respective Sambas. They weren't great but because Kevin acted like it was the best dance he'd ever seen it was highly upsetting when both got bad comments compared with what they'd been critiqued and praised on in previous weeks.

Me too. I don't know why people don't like them. I can only assume that all the gushing from the judges doesn't help.

The Cliftons are fine.

All of the pros are just people with their good and not so good points. It seems somehow acceptable to attack them though, and because of this people seem to want to see dark plots etc. where done exist.

As another poster has said, it's rather unreasoning.

It doesn't help. Don't get me wrong they are all fabulous professionals who are excellent and passionate about what they do but none of the other professionals wouldn't be there if this was also the case. The issue is with me is that not Kevin necessarily but the girls and Jo in particular go fishing for good comments and start being miserable when they are not forthcoming and neither are marks that they would biasedly score one another.

What I have said on another post is because of such gushing it made Judge Rinder's position on the leaderboard extremely precarious as his Rumba was always going to look worse by comparison anyway so why over do it on the gushing to Ore and Louise to make it look far worse. The way they were going at one point I thought the Judge was going to be scored that badly that Ed was going to beat him with his Tango. It also then gave the judges further power and justification NOT to give Claudia at least one very deserved 10. The "do more of this" was indication and the fact she was clearly better than both males ahead of her and they got no better than 7 was further justification with her getting 9s ... for them anyway.

I get your post a 100%. Week in week out Claudia gives her all and not a single 10. Maybe its just me but I thought Claudia deserved a 10 more than Ore (I like Ore) or Louise. Having said that I didn't even finish watching Louise's dance (found it really boring) so who am I to say anything.

It's been quite brutal and cutting about Cliftons. They get called bullies, looks are torn apart (mostly Kevin), and Kevin's dance partners get ripped apart. It happens in multiple threads, and over so long time period, that for me it takes time to notice, and realise how not ok it is.

Jo is a natural blond actually.

I think outside of DS there isn't a huge anti clifton bias. People generally like them. It's just on here it becomes a bit of an echo chamber of people slagging them off over very minor things. I wonder if they hold themselves to the same standards. I think there's generally something to like in everyone and don't get a lot of enjoyment out of picking up on the negative aspects of a person.

Agree totally. Many seem to use this forum as a platform to bash and troll. Everyone invests so much into the Show and all should be applauded not criticised. Some are there just for the 'entertainment' or controversial factor and have been since the Christopher Parker days. If all the celebs could be a potential winner, it would be a true dance competition but would lose a lot of the entertainment factor.

I rarely post or respond on this forum because of my thorough dislike for the vitriol which is directed against certain pro dancers and celebrities for no real reason other than they smile too much or they are too enthusiastic or they support their friends/family/each other/they are too good, etc etc etc

I didn't particularly like it either but I can't say anything in my household because the majority fawn over Louise though once the scores were given and you saw the leaderboard before the ChaCha-thon, I instantly knew what was going to happen

Danny - 40, Louise - 39, Ore and Claudia - 36, Judge - 29 and Ed 23.

They couldn't give Claudia at least one 10 AND score her 4th in the ChaCha-thon so to justify her 4th in that dance they put her on par with Ore. IF they had given Claudia any more than 36 it practically guaranteed Ed the dance off if she eventually came 4th in the dance off because we as the public will have been kicking off to say "well how come she got 4th in the ChaCha-thon and practically 2nd/very close 3rd on the leaderboard. The group dances are just an exercise to make it tighter at the top and test the public vote of the next best especially if one or both (and in this case both) have ever faced a dance off. It also brings the potential for the secret thing they actually want from the exercise which is getting rid of Ed though again that puts Judge Rinder (and to an extent Claudia) in danger and if both are in the dance off this evening the BBC have lost a viewer!

I think Kevin comes across as a lovely guy and I wouldn't have a problem being partnered with him.

I don't dislike Joanne and Karen but they do irritate me. Joanne acts childlike at times with a babyish voice which I can't stand and Karen sometimes seems a bit full of herself, especially on ITT when she is being interviewed with other pros.

I was really annoyed with both of them when they were shouting under marked the other week after Kevin had danced, I found that very unprofessional and just confirmed my opinion of them was right.

Having said all of that there is no one who annoys me nearly as much as Anton!!! I have never liked him since series 1 he is so fake and it's like he is putting an act on all the time, can't stand him.

Surely if they really wanted to get rid of Ed they would have broken all the ties and made it even harder for him to overcome being bottom of the board? They could've done it quite easily by putting Danny first in the cha cha and Louise second.

I have no problem with the Clifton trio, indeed when Kevin first joined I was delighted that we had a "home grown" pro who was such an excellent dancer. I think the big problem is that people perceive, whether rightly or wrongly, that they are given preferential treatment and nothing winds up a lot of people but what is seen as bias/favoritism of any kind.

I blame the judges for the vitriol which results from their comments/marks, they must treat everyone fairly (or at least be seen to treat everyone fairly!).

They should be wise enough by now to know people do not always do want you want or what you try to set up - they have tried that nearly every year without success!

I don't get this one in particular at all. Every other celebrity and their pro does this, but when Jo does it, it has an air of entitlement? It's relief as you say and frankly no different at all to any other couple on the show.

Frankly, I find the "joanne is childlike" extremely overplayed on here. I don't see how he acts any differently to Oti, Katya or even Natalie really but she's held to a different distinction. She can't help her voice, has made efforts to improve her speaking with elocution lessons, but considering she moved to Italy when she was a teenager and has taken her dancing very seriously for so long, I don't really understand the ideology behind it. She speaks a lot of sense when you see her on It Takes Two.

But then again, I find the anti-Clifton sentiment very overplayed too.

I understand what you are saying though because of the points that had already been scored in round one for Ed not to be bottom of the leaderboard he had to win the ChaCha-thon with the Judge being disqualified putting them each on 2 ranking points no matter what everyone else did. It wasn't going to be likely

My fear is really for Claudia who really justified 3rd on the leaderboard. Because she was given the same mark as Ore in round one and then Louise won the ChaCha-thon putting her and Danny on level points and separating her and Ore by one point in Ore's favour (who are their partner's? That's right - the Cliftons). Because the equality comes from the top and not the bottom the see-saw may work the other way and I fear a Judge v Claudia dance off as a result.

Undermarked and then underranked + somewhat cutting comments compared to what had gone before on the night (and to some extent what had been said before about the contestant) = one unjustified dance off and one I hope I don't see at least for another week

I get the relief part, that's fine. I have no problem with that and you're right, every other couple this and every other series that has gone before has done that too but IMO I feel that Jo's reaction is a little on the lines of "why didn't you call us out earlier if we were safe" not forgetting that it is in no particular order and if they were called out first every single week people would have something to say about that. To that end she can't win either way and I will back down on this point

The thing is everyone has a different opinion of people and what might annoy one person won't annoy another so you can't say it is being overplayed you just have a different opinion of Joanne.

I know she can't help her voice but I think that combined with her acting in a babyish way at times doesn't help in my opinion. I think she does act differently to Oti, Katya and Natalie, everyone has a unique personality, none of them annoy me like Joanne does.

Ugh - I can't stand them all especially Kevin

I don't really understand what you are saying here - all I meant was that if they had put Danny first in the cha cha and Louise second, breaking the tie, Ed would've ended up with only 1 point overall from the judges. This would've given him more of a mountain to climb with the public vote to avoid the dance off. If the judges had really wanted to maximise their chances of getting rid of Ed, that would've been easy to do.

Re Claudia, I agree she should've been above Ore, but I think they probably did her a favour with the undermarking as it tends to make people vote more due to the 'injustice'.

Ahh I get what you're saying now. I read it as the reverse for whatever reason. I just think my big fear at the moment is a Claudia v Judge Rinder dance off because of Ore's clear special treatment. To be fair Danny could turn up in a bin bag and stand there for 90 second and I'd still give him a 10 never mind the judges though both Claudia and the judge deserve another week at least though I concede that at least one may end up in the dance off; that in large part is due to gushing at Ore and Louise, the judge being fiercely critiqued (I mean the claws were out!) and Claudia being severely undermarked in the AT and underranked in the ChaCha-thon.

If Ed escapes again it's Claudia v the Judge for sure and I really don't want to see it this week with Ed still in. It's heartbreaking enough that it may be a reality this series anyway

I actually think Karen is my least favourite Clifton, mainly because I find her dancing so unappealing!

I think Karen is OK but my other half can't watch her dancing. He thinks she is too masculine. Mind you I cant see it.