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Richmond Park by-election
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LostFool
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by peter05:
“Let's hope this happens, the only alternative is no brexit at all, but what you think will happen should keep everybody happy”

It won't keep everyone happy but there will be enough for majority support. The Hardcore Leavers will hate it but they are just a small minority and will be free to keep howling at the moon,
Aftershow
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by Annsyre:
“Goldsmith is very popular as an M.P.”

Apparently not
pedrok
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by wizzywick:
“Watch it all via iPlayer. It's speeches like hers, in leafy London suburbs where their life is unaffected by anything like the things those up North experience, that cause the divisions because, whilst she is sticking up for those who voted for her, she is suggesting to the 17,400,000 Leave voters that those in the South East still don't "get it".”

I'm in the north. In fact I'm further north than the 'north'. So I'm north of north.

Yet in my 'north' we voted remain.

So what is the difference between the north and the 'north'?
Osusana
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by trevgo:
“A hugely gratifying and admittedly unexpected result, purely down to my day's toil in Kew (and subsequent donations).

Of course its a heavily remain constituency. Its one of the best educated electorates in the country, and we all know how education has a very strong correlation to one's view on Brexit. There is, however, more to this than just the pat comments from many on the forum.

Firstly, Zac is not unpopular in that part of the world. He turned a narrow LibDem majority into a massive 23,000 in the space of 2 elections. The constituency voted for him in the mayoral election by a very large majority. It was not antipathy to him, but the horror at the prospect of a hard Brexit. I'm glad Farron made the point on the BBC this morning that many Tories who voted Leave in the referendum (and the Richmond Leave vote was virtually 100% Tory - UKIP got 4% last GE) did NOT vote for a hard Brexit.

The Europhobes continually accuse Remainers of being out of touch, when it is THEY. They believe the majority of the country is happy to see the economy harmed, jobs jeopardised, just so the "purity" of sovereignty can be preserved and the borders shut. Well they are WRONG. The vast, vast majority want us to remain in the single market - the big difference in Richmond is that the electorate there understand the consequences if we don't, and owing to their intelligence, can see through the bullshit peddled by the Brexiters.

A word about Labour. I've canvassed this constituency many years past, when it was a Tory marginal and the Alliance was trying to win it. There was always a significant Labour vote there, and it was very resilient. Very hard to squeeze. They knew they had no chance but would not vote tactically, even when it was pointed out how slim the Tory majority. That changed this time. You do find Labour voters in million pound homes in that constituency, and all I encountered was utter contempt for Corbyn. This is a pointer to how Labour will be evaporated in the next election. A lost deposit there is utterly terrible.

Richmond is not a typical seat. It magnifies the national mood. It is, however, a very clear indicator of how desperate most people are to avoid a hard Brexit. The result is a remarkable achievement by the LibDems (who worked incredibly hard for it) considering the very strong personal following Zac has in the area.”

And some people wonder why Remainers are thought to be smug?
jjwales
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by nethwen:
“Which of course Sarah Olney wasn't doing at all. LOL.”

Doesn't matter who does it, it's wrong.
Welsh-lad
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by Osusana:
“And some people wonder why Remainers are thought to be smug?”

In fairness he was just stating a fact. Educated people were more likely to vote Remain.
Fact.
batdude_uk1
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by Welsh-lad:
“In fairness he was just stating a fact. Educated people were more likely to vote Remain.
Fact.”

What level of education are you talking about when you say "educated people"? GCSE level? A Level? Undergraduate level? Or Post Graduate level?? Or a combination of all of them??
Kiteview
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by nethwen:
“What do you think "backward-looking" means?”

There's nothing negative with being "backward-looking".

A person who looks backwards at our long-history of Parliamentary democracy could well hold the positive view that Parliament should make the decision on whether or not ithe Government should trigger article 50. That's a perfectly legitimate, democratic conservative viewpoint to hold but one that is totally contrary to the iconoclasism that the Conservative party now wants.
Radlestort
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by nethwen:
“What do you think "backward-looking" means?”

Nostalgic and reluctant to accept the modern world. Hardly 'rabid' rhetoric, which was the term used to describe it.

"Oi, you! You're backwards-looking!"

Hardly going to make anyone tremble and weep.
trevgo
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by Osusana:
“And some people wonder why Remainers are thought to be smug?”

How can pointing out known facts be "smug"?

I appreciate it's a fact that causes Brexiters extreme embarrassment, but that changes nothing.
Welsh-lad
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by wizzywick:
“Watch it all via iPlayer. It's speeches like hers, in leafy London suburbs where their life is unaffected by anything like the things those up North experience, that cause the divisions because, whilst she is sticking up for those who voted for her, she is suggesting to the 17,400,000 Leave voters that those in the South East still don't "get it".”

I really don't get this element of carping.

Do you also judge speeches made by kippers and suggest they are alienating the 16,140,000 by saying they 'just don't get it'?

I doubt it.

Brexiters speak as if the referendum was a landslide and that a tiny out-of-touch elite need to be brought into line.

In reality, it was of course a close result.
trevgo
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“What level of education are you talking about when you say "educated people"? GCSE level? A Level? Undergraduate level? Or Post Graduate level?? Or a combination of all of them??”

Analysis has shown that, simply, the more educated you are the more likely you are to have voted Remain. Graduates are at the top of the graph. The less educated you are, the more likely you are a Brexiter. It's not hard to see why.

The graph shows a very similar diagonal for age.
Welsh-lad
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“What level of education are you talking about when you say "educated people"? GCSE level? A Level? Undergraduate level? Or Post Graduate level?? Or a combination of all of them??”

I can't remember the criteria applied by the people who conducted the poll of voters sorry, but the findings were pretty stark, well beyond the margins of error.
marke09
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by Welsh-lad:
“I really don't get this element of carping.

Do you also judge speeches made by kippers and suggest they are alienating the 16,140,000 by saying they 'just don't get it'?

I doubt it.

Brexiters speak as if the referendum was a landslide and that a tiny out-of-touch elite need to be brought into line.

In reality, it was of course a close result.”

If a party had over 1,4 million majority ina n election IT would be called a landslide

Another wasted MP like ours who cant change anything!
Shrike
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by trevgo:
“How can pointing out known facts be "smug"?

I appreciate it's a fact that causes Brexiters extreme embarrassment, but that changes nothing.”

Brexiters shouldn't be embarrassed by it. Those who've been lucky enough to get a good education have generally benefited more from EU membership and globalisation than those who missed out. It's those on lower wages who've seen their jobs disappear and wages suppressed, those in poorer areas who find their schools, medical centres and housing struggling to cope with an increased population.
People didn't vote Brexit because they are stupid, they voted Brexit because remaining doesn't obviously benefit them.
Mark.
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by marke09:
“If a party had over 1,4 million majority ina n election IT would be called a landslide”

No it wouldn't, because 1.4m on a turnout of 46.5m is tiny.

Would you say that an individual candidate winning by 1,400 votes on a turnout of 46,500 won by a "landslide"? Because that's the same relative margin.
Welsh-lad
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by marke09:
“If a party had over 1,4 million majority ina n election IT would be called a landslide

Another wasted MP like ours who cant change anything!”

No it wouldn't. Parties often have that margin of the popular vote and get nowhere near a landlside.
In a binary referendum nationwide, it was close, and by even suited thug Farage's standards, signalled 'unfinished business'.
Welsh-lad
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by Shrike:
“Brexiters shouldn't be embarrassed by it. Those who've been lucky enough to get a good education have generally benefited more from EU membership and globalisation than those who missed out. It's those on lower wages who've seen their jobs disappear and wages suppressed, those in poorer areas who find their schools, medical centres and housing struggling to cope with an increased population.
People didn't vote Brexit because they are stupid, they voted Brexit because remaining doesn't obviously benefit them.”

That's a fair point. Many felt they had nothing to lose.
And why was that? Stagnant flat economy due to the austerity obsessed cretins in charge, bankers and obscene-end capitalists crashing the economy and being bailed out by the taxpyayer etc.

Yet they can so easily turn it around to blame the usual targets - immigrants, the 'different'.

Recession / Depression followed by upsurge in rightwing nationalism. That paradigm is as old as the hills,
LostFool
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by trevgo:
“Analysis has shown that, simply, the more educated you are the more likely you are to have voted Remain. Graduates are at the top of the graph. The less educated you are, the more likely you are a Brexiter. It's not hard to see why.

The graph shows a very similar diagonal for age.”

Here are some good graphs: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...s-and-analysis

Of all of the demographics the one with the highest correlation was higher education (with Scotland providing the outliers where even areas with a low number of graduates voted Remain). Age had an effect but it wasn't so strong as while younger people were more likely to be Remain older people were more likely to vote.
HenryGarten
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by Welsh-lad:
“No it wouldn't. Parties often have that margin of the popular vote and get nowhere near a landlside.
In a binary referendum nationwide, it was close, and by even suited thug Farage's standards, signalled 'unfinished business'.”

The EU referendum was a landslide if it was counted by constituency.
marke09
02-12-2016
I dont like the result can I go to he supreme court to overturn it?
HenryGarten
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by marke09:
“I dont like the result can I go to he supreme court to overturn it?”

It was really quite close.
burneside
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by LostFool:
“It won't keep everyone happy but there will be enough for majority support. The Hardcore Leavers will hate it but they are just a small minority and will be free to keep howling at the moon,”

How do you know "hardcore leavers" are a small minority, have you polled all 17.4 million Brexit voters? As with other Remoaners on this thread you make stuff up to suit your agenda.
Sport1
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by marke09:
“I dont like the result can I go to he supreme court to overturn it?”

If you like. What grounds do you have?
Inkblot
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by Shrike:
“Brexiters shouldn't be embarrassed by it. Those who've been lucky enough to get a good education have generally benefited more from EU membership and globalisation than those who missed out. It's those on lower wages who've seen their jobs disappear and wages suppressed, those in poorer areas who find their schools, medical centres and housing struggling to cope with an increased population.
People didn't vote Brexit because they are stupid, they voted Brexit because remaining doesn't obviously benefit them.”

There's definitely some truth in that but wasn't a lot of it debunked by the Michael Rosen blog that was discussed yesterday? The EU doesn't cause those problems, the government does by not making those areas with pressure on public services a priority. And in the Guardian video about Sleaford, local people were linking investment in HS2 with cuts to local services, which (as far as I know) is not the case. It's the widespread perception that the EU does nothing for those areas that is the problem rather than the actual facts. There is no guarantee that those areas would receive bigger investment from the UK government than they receive from the EU.
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