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Richmond Park by-election
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MARTYM8
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by Welsh-lad:
“In fairness he was just stating a fact. Educated people were more likely to vote Remain.
Fact.”

These days up to 50 per cent of people of young people go to university. When many of today's pensioners and middle aged were young it was barely 10 per cent. Having a degree doesn't make you more intelligent - it just means you are more likely to be under 35. The young voted remain but the older and middle aged voters backed leave.

Maybe age as much as education explains that statistic - although the suggestion that people without degrees are lesser people is well out of order.

'I am 22 and have a media studies degree from the University of Ex polytechnic so I am cleverer than you 55 year old person who never got the chance to go to college cos the opportunities weren't available?' Really?

But of course that's the problem. Arrogant remainers - which are a minority - who think they are better than other people cos they are supposedly more educated or live in leafy London.

Cos they really aren't superior human beings - they just think they are!

Ps As for last nights result Richmond voted 70 per cent remain in June but pro Remain candidates only won 55 per cent yesterday. Doesn't that suggest support for remain there is lower now not higher - assuming if as the LDs claim the by election was about Brexit. Cos I might be a thick poorly educated leave voter but I can add up!
pedrok
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by marke09:
“I dont like the result can I go to he supreme court to overturn it?”

Go for it. I don't think a petted lip is enough a reason, but if you have money to burn, fire in.
Welsh-lad
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by HenryGarten:
“The EU referendum was a landslide if it was counted by constituency.”

Yeah but it wasn't. Every vote counted.

Do you think it should have been done by constituency? And if so, why?
Inkblot
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by MARTYM8:
“
But of course that's the problem. Arrogant remainers - which are a minority - who think they are better than other people cos they are supposedly more educated or live in leafy London.”

You're right. Arrogant remainers are a minority. The rest of the remainers are nice people.
burneside
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by Mark.:
“No it wouldn't, because 1.4m on a turnout of 46.5m is tiny.

Would you say that an individual candidate winning by 1,400 votes on a turnout of 46,500 won by a "landslide"? Because that's the same relative margin.”

Turnout was 33.5 million, it's very easy to calculate that figure.
trevgo
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by Shrike:
“Brexiters shouldn't be embarrassed by it. Those who've been lucky enough to get a good education have generally benefited more from EU membership and globalisation than those who missed out. It's those on lower wages who've seen their jobs disappear and wages suppressed, those in poorer areas who find their schools, medical centres and housing struggling to cope with an increased population.
People didn't vote Brexit because they are stupid, they voted Brexit because remaining doesn't obviously benefit them.”

Yes, that is all pertinent. For sure, the less well educated and skilled feel more threatened by immigration. What is equally sure is that they also fail to understand the benefits of EU membership, nor the impact of leaving, which is only going to make their situation worse.
Sport1
02-12-2016
Could the right wingers please decide once and for all whether London is 'leafy' or a 'multicultural hellhole' where you are likely to be stabbed at a moment's notice?
Welsh-lad
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by MARTYM8:
“These days up to 50 per cent of people of young people go to university. When many of today's pensioners and middle aged were young it was barely 10 per cent. Having a degree doesn't make you more intelligent - it just means you are more likely to be under 35. The young voted remain but the older and middle aged voters backed leave.

Maybe age as much as education explains that statistic - although the suggestion that people without degrees are lesser people is well out of order.

'I am 22 and have a media studies degree from the University of Ex polytechnic so I am cleverer than you 55 year old person who never got the chance to go to college cos the opportunities weren't available?' Really?

But of course that's the problem. Arrogant remainers - which are a minority - who think they are better than other people cos they are supposedly more educated or live in leafy London.

Cos they really aren't superior human beings - they just think they are!

Ps As for last nights result Richmond voted 70 per cent remain in June but pro Remain candidates only won 55 per cent yesterday. Doesn't that suggest support for remain there is lower now not higher - assuming if as the LDs claim the by election was about Brexit. Cos I might be a thick poorly educated leave voter but I can add up!”

Still not sure what point you are making. You are more educated than the 50 year old because you have received more education.

You are not 'supposedly' more educated, you literally are more educated.
Welsh-lad
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by Sport1:
“Could the right wingers please decide once and for all whether London is 'leafy' or a 'multicultural hellhole' where you are likely to be stabbed at a moment's notice?”

Haha excellent
Tassium
02-12-2016
The referendum campaign continues it seems, and with the same mistakes...
MARTYM8
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by Welsh-lad:
“Yeah but it wasn't. Every vote counted.

Do you think it should have been done by constituency? And if so, why?”

The point being that if you start turning by elections and general elections - conducted on constituency boundaries - as the Lib Dems are seeking into a Brexit referendum then there estimated to be 200 to 250 more constituencies which had leave majorities than remain ones in June. So leave would win any such national election by a landslide.

We are supposed to believe from yesterday that the vote of 1 London seat which voted remain by 70 per cent and elected a Lib Dem by 1800 has now somehow negated the vote of 650 seats where leave won by 1.4 million.

Let's seat what happens in the Sleaford by election next week - the Lib Dems won 5 per cent there in May. It's not Richmond'
trevgo
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by MARTYM8:
“Ps As for last nights result Richmond voted 70 per cent remain in June but pro Remain candidates only won 55 per cent yesterday. Doesn't that suggest support for remain there is lower now not higher - assuming if as the LDs claim the by election was about Brexit. Cos I might be a thick poorly educated leave voter but I can add up!”

No it doesn't. Contrast the referendum vote with GE 2015.

Goldsmith had a phenomenal following in the constituency. They voted for him in both the GE and mayoral elections because they never thought the nation would vote for Brexit, so his views on the subject were not a deal breaker.

That has changed. He still got big support from true Blue Tory remainers, who felt they had to be loyal to someone standing by their word. It still was not enough.

It is YOU who is in the minority. The country does not want a hard Brexit. The more time passes, the more obvious this will become, even to you.
Ash_M1
02-12-2016
Absolutely delighted (and very surprised) that The Dems have over-turned the Tories stonking 23,000 majority. The millionaire establishment figure who ran an anti-Muslim campaign when running for the mayor of London has been rightly rejected by the decent people of Richmond. I am heartened by this result. There are still decent people in the UK with decent values post Brexit.

This is a massive shot across the boughs of the Govt. The country is split. The policy going forward MUST take into consideration the wants and wishes of Remainers. We cannot have a government working on behalf of the Alt-right/extreme right only. The govt MUST work on all our behalf's equally.

Richmond is an example of how Remain parties need to fight seats going forward. Put up the strongest candidate (be it Green, Labour, Lib Dem) to fight the Tory/Ookip/Leave parties.

Congratulations Sarah. This is a vote for British values, values us Brits hold dear...that of tolerance, inclusiveness and the rejection of the politics of hate and division. Her acceptance speech was excellent too for a new MP.
Welsh-lad
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by marke09:
“I dont like the result can I go to he supreme court to overturn it?”

On what point of law?

And no result (of any kind) has been overturned by the SC in case you are rather feebly trying to draw comparisons.
davor
02-12-2016
LibDems on a larger scale would mean scrapped Brexit, tighter EU integration, more EU migrants as well as migrants and refugees from the Middle East. Imagine LibDems leading the country......
Landis
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by HenryGarten:
“The EU referendum was a landslide if it was counted by constituency.”

In June....Yes.

But Farron is saying that one third of Conservative Leave voters switched to the LibDems yesterday.
Welsh-lad
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by Ash_M1:
“Absolutely delighted (and very surprised) that The Dems have over-turned the Tories stonking 23,000 majority. The millionaire establishment figure who ran an anti-Muslim campaign when running for the mayor of London has been rightly rejected by the decent people of Richmond. I am heartened by this result. There are still decent people in the UK with decent values post Brexit.

This is a massive shot across the boughs of the Govt. The country is split. The policy going forward MUST take into consideration the wants and wishes of Remainers. We cannot have a government working on behalf of the Alt-right/extreme right only. The govt MUST work on all our behalf's equally.

Richmond is an example of how Remain parties need to fight seats going forward. Put up the strongest candidate (be it Green, Labour, Lib Dem) to fight the Tory/Ookip/Leave parties.

Congratulations Sarah. This is a vote for British values, values us Brits hold dear...that of tolerance, inclusiveness and the rejection of the politics of hate and division. Her acceptance speech was excellent too for a new MP.”

I totally agree with the BIB
snowy ghost
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by platelet:
“True but there are more than 1,600 labour party members in Richmond. He didn't even manage to get all of their votes ”

Very telling
trevgo
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by MARTYM8:
“We are supposed to believe from yesterday that the vote of 1 London seat which voted remain by 70 per cent and elected a Lib Dem by 1800 has now somehow negated the vote of 650 seats where leave won by 1.4 million.

Let's seat what happens in the Sleaford by election next week - the Lib Dems won 5 per cent there in May. It's not Richmond'”

You and your bubbles. It's somewhat smug and arrogant to pretend one part of the country is the "real world" and another isn't. Ridiculous.

Absolutely nobody is saying the result negates the referendum. Certainly not Farron. What is does say is that the country does not want a hard Brexit. It was not on the ballot paper and there is no mandate for it. And if you believe there is, then let's propose it and have a referendum. Why does democracy frighten you so much?
Shrike
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by Landis:
“In June....Yes.

But Farron is saying that one third of Conservative Leave voters switched to the LibDems yesterday.”

Perhaps they are all fanatical plane spotters, who just love the idea of an expanded Heathrow?
paralax
02-12-2016
Could it be that the 'less well educated' have not been brainwashed by the left ideology of their teachers/tutors?
Ash_M1
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by Dan 54:
“But,but,I'm not sure it was clear that was what they were voting for,how do they know if it wasn't on the ballot paper? Maybe someone needs to challenge it in court?”

Remainers know what they are voting for. It's Leavers who were duped. Nice try though Dan.
MARTYM8
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by Sport1:
“Could the right wingers please decide once and for all whether London is 'leafy' or a 'multicultural hellhole' where you are likely to be stabbed at a moment's notice?”

its actually a rather big place you know

But you might observe that the White middle class in London tend to live in their nice almost entirely white middle class conservation area enclaves - even though they could probably get a bigger house if they lived in a more diverse area of the capital. A certain leafy London poster is a good example of them. Claims to love diversity but does their best to avoid living in a very diverse area!

Richmond Park isn't really in London anyway. It's Surrey. And of course most people there could get a much bigger house of they moved to somewhere like East Ham - but for some reason choose to live in a smaller property in Richmond. Not sure why

Perhaps what binds them is their hypocrisy - says one thing and does another.
Hacker Harrier
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by trevgo:
“It is YOU who is in the minority. The country does not want a hard Brexit. The more time passes, the more obvious this will become, even to you.”

As one comedic remoaner posed a few months ago:
"You may have won this battle. You have not won the war!"

The many wealthy citizens of Richmond on Remain are scared of losing their holiday villas, and the cost of cooks, cleaners and nannies.
jjwales
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by MARTYM8:
“its actually a rather big place you know

But you might observe that the White middle class in London tend to live in their nice almost entirely white middle class conservation area enclaves - even though they could probably get a bigger house if they lived in a more diverse area of the capital. A certain leafy London poster is a good example of them. Claims to love diversity but does their best to avoid living in a very diverse area!”

Have they actually said this, or is that just speculation on your part?

Quote:
“Richmond Park isn't really in London anyway. It's Surrey. And of course most people there could get a much bigger house of they moved to somewhere like East Ham - but for some reason choose to live in a smaller property in Richmond. Not sure why

Perhaps what binds them is their hypocrisy - says one thing and does another.”

In what way are most of the Richmond Park residents being hypocritical?
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