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Richmond Park by-election


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Old 02-12-2016, 11:03
batdude_uk1
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Analysis has shown that, simply, the more educated you are the more likely you are to have voted Remain. Graduates are at the top of the graph. The less educated you are, the more likely you are a Brexiter. It's not hard to see why.

The graph shows a very similar diagonal for age.
I can't remember the criteria applied by the people who conducted the poll of voters sorry, but the findings were pretty stark, well beyond the margins of error.
Thank you for these kind replies, so when people generally say "educated people", they tend to mean post graduate people then?
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:03
MARTYM8
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You and your bubbles. It's somewhat smug and arrogant to pretend one part of the country is the "real world" and another isn't. Ridiculous.

Absolutely nobody is saying the result negates the referendum. Certainly not Farron. What is does say is that the country does not want a hard Brexit. It was not on the ballot paper and there is no mandate for it. And if you believe there is, then let's propose it and have a referendum. Why does democracy frighten you so much?
If you are wealthy enough to live in Richmond Park I merely observe you probably don't and probably never have faced the challenges which people perhaps growing up on a council estate in the north or the Midlands do.

Not everyone but most people in that seat have and probably always have had relatively nice and cosy lives. As the LIb Dem candidate herself said 'if I don't win its not the end of the world as I still have a nice job, a nice family and a nice big house in a nice area!'.

If you live there no wonder you think life is wonderful and things should stay as they are as you are doing very well thank you. But outside that sort of bubble clearly a lot of people aren't feeling like that.
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:04
jjwales
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Could it be that the 'less well educated' have not been brainwashed by the left ideology of their teachers/tutors?
There's a very dodgy premise to that question!
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:04
burneside
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You and your bubbles. It's somewhat smug and arrogant to pretend one part of the country is the "real world" and another isn't. Ridiculous.

Absolutely nobody is saying the result negates the referendum. Certainly not Farron. What is does say is that the country does not want a hard Brexit. It was not on the ballot paper and there is no mandate for it. And if you believe there is, then let's propose it and have a referendum. Why does democracy frighten you so much?
We have had the referendum and the majority voted for Brexit. There was no additional option of hard or soft Brexit on the ballot paper so we have to assume people want out of the EU lock, stock and barrel. That was my intention when I cast my vote. You keep saying there is no mandate for hard Brexit, how exactly do you know that?
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:04
HenryGarten
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Yeah but it wasn't. Every vote counted.

Do you think it should have been done by constituency? And if so, why?
It would show what mandate MPs really have and if they are not representing their constituents.
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:05
DaveMBA
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Not really - it is tactical voting, which has been a feature of FPTP voting since it was possible to have an idea how the votes might fall. With FPTP, you often finish up with the candidate least disliked.

This is just the LDs using UKIP's tactic - it is not that they might win a lot of seats, but that they will take a chunk of the Tory vote and so, the Tories would lose a lot of marginals. Obviously, with Labour in difficulties, that is less true now, but Corbyn will go in time. This time, the clowns on the Tory right and an indecisive PM will need to run scared of the Remain vote.

I will say it again - we will be voting again in 2020, either in Ref2 or at a GE determined by the EU issue.
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:06
Osusana
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In fairness he was just stating a fact. Educated people were more likely to vote Remain.
Fact.
Lies, damn lies and statistics
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:06
DaveMBA
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It would show what mandate MPs really have and if they are not representing their constituents.
That is just another stupid Brexit argument - MPs are not delegates "of the people" (to use a phrase beloved of authoritarians) , but representatives, whose job is to represent all their constituents.
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:06
marke09
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The result does not say the country does not want a Hard Brexit - it says that at the moment only Richmond doesnt want a hard brexit or an other runway
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:07
trevgo
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its actually a rather big place you know

But you might observe that the White middle class in London tend to live in their nice almost entirely white middle class conservation area enclaves - even though they could probably get a bigger house if they lived in a more diverse area of the capital. A certain leafy London poster is a good example of them. Claims to love diversity but does their best to avoid living in a very diverse area!

Richmond Park isn't really in London anyway. It's Surrey. And of course most people there could get a much bigger house of they moved to somewhere like East Ham - but for some reason choose to live in a smaller property in Richmond. Not sure why

Perhaps what binds them is their hypocrisy - says one thing and does another.
Tripe.

I've lived in Ilford, Barking, Stepney, Mile End, Walthamstow. Even my "leafy" part is miles from mono-cultural. There's a large black family living next door.

Everywhere in London is diverse. There's more and less, but nowhere is a white British enclave, save probably Bexley - and we all know the politics of that area. I met all kinds of people in Kew. And of course Richmond is London. It's a London borough like Havering or Bexley. That the post office quaintly calls it Surrey is irrelevant.

Your envy just eats you up. It's very unhealthy.
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:07
jjwales
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LibDems on a larger scale would mean scrapped Brexit, tighter EU integration, more EU migrants as well as migrants and refugees from the Middle East. Imagine LibDems leading the country......
No problem for me, though it did ever happen we'd already have left the EU.
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:08
MARTYM8
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There's a very dodgy premise to that question!
No more dodgy than implying people who voted leave are stupid - well what people who use the term less educated really mean when they may such claims.

Having a degree is a function of age as much as intelligence - and older voters backed leave possibly cos they have a life of experience to draw on including raising families and working for decades rather than being straight out of college.
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:08
Ash_M1
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It won't make any difference imo. If the government lose their case A50 will be voted through by a big margin (similar to the vote for the referendum act).

I actually think her saying she'll vote down A50 without batting an eyelid will be bad for Lib Dems in the long run. Openly saying you want to ignore the result of a referendum doesn't play well with most voters, whichever side of the EU argument they're from. Most people support democracy.
Most do yes, but apparently Brexiteers only support 'democracy' when they get what they want!

No sensible MP will support a motion to trigger 50 without agreeing to what comes next first. Brexit has resulted in some loosing all sense of sense...wanting to condemn the country to unknown future. Not acceptable. Brexiteers now need to behave in a responsible fashion going forward.
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:10
Welsh-lad
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As one comedic remoaner posed a few months ago:
"You may have won this battle. You have not won the war!"

The many wealthy citizens of Richmond on Remain are scared of losing their holiday villas, and the cost of cooks, cleaners and nannies.
Oh dear these bitter politics of envy are pretty grim.
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:11
Aftershow
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It's speeches like hers, in leafy London suburbs where their life is unaffected by anything like the things those up North experience, that cause the divisions because, whilst she is sticking up for those who voted for her, she is suggesting to the 17,400,000 Leave voters that those in the South East still don't "get it".
Easy enough to spout this rhetoric, but how accurate it is is another matter.

We had the counterpoint of last night's Question Time in Wakefield, where various ills in the area were laid at the door of immigrants. Wakefield is nearly 95% White British; significantly higher than Richmond.
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:13
jjwales
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No more dodgy than implying people who voted leave are stupid
So you think one dodgy remark excuses another?

- well what people who use the term less educated really mean when they may such claims.
How do you know they mean that?
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:14
Osusana
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So the LibDems now have 9 MP's is that correct (or have I missed a by-election somewhere?) - that still makes them politically insignificant in my book
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:15
Ash_M1
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Most MPs will look at how people voted in their area I would think. Most will realise that the vote was leave and behave accordingly. Lets face it if the referendum was FPTP then it would have been a landslide for leave. Which is the main reason not many are talking about opposing A50 etc. Well outside Scotland that is.
Another Brexiteer who fails to acknowledge the closeness of the vote! Another attempt by Leavers to build their part?

The country is utterly split. We are not all Brexiteers now.
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:17
trevgo
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Having a degree is a function of age as much as intelligence - and older voters backed leave possibly cos they have a life of experience to draw on including raising families and working for decades rather than being straight out of college.
Which gives them a total insight into the nuances of international trade and the implications of impedance of such. Not at all that they can't cope with change and the modern world, and wish they could return to the Britain of their youth. Or that they no longer have to rely on a livelihood so feel immune from any fallout.

You can play the victim as much as you like, but we have all heard them on the media time and time again, and it is blatantly obvious they had no idea of the issues.
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:18
Aftershow
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Perhaps what binds them is their hypocrisy - says one thing and does another.
Some very bitter comments on here.

Seems like some people just need to get over this result
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:19
MARTYM8
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Tripe.

Your envy just eats you up. It's very unhealthy.
As opposed to your superiority which suggests you think are better than other people because you live in 'leafy London' - when actually you live in Essex.
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:21
Landis
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So the LibDems now have 9 MP's is that correct (or have I missed a by-election somewhere?) - that still makes them politically insignificant in my book
Unless......the Police Investigation into 30 + Lib Dem Marginals at the 2015 GE reveals that they should have 40 seats.....and still be in Government.
With different partners.
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:24
Mark.
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Turnout was 33.5 million, it's very easy to calculate that figure.
Apologies, I put down the total electorate. But it makes little difference - the result was close.
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:27
MARTYM8
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Oh dear these bitter politics of envy are pretty grim.
No it merely explains that the better off tend to like to keep things as they are to preserve their status and wealth.

The same sort of arguments in a different form used to be used to deny poor people who didn't own land or property the vote. We can't really allow the plebs to have a say cos they might change things and we can't have that. Different time different world but the sentiment is much the same.

In effect I am better than you as I have a degree or live in a leafy area so my vote and opinion counts more. No it really doesn't!
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:32
trevgo
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As opposed to your superiority which suggests you think are better than other people because you live in 'leafy London' - when actually you live in Essex.
I do not live in Essex. I live in London postal. I have "E" postcode.

You don't know as much as you think you do on any issue.
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