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Old 02-12-2016, 12:36
jmclaugh
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I wonder if Zac Goldsmith rues the day he resigned from the Tory party. Mind you at least he stood by his word to do so if Heathrow was the chosen airport.
Possibly, not been a good year for him politically speaking.
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:38
burneside
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Seeing as a pro Brexit candidate won in the same massively pro EU constituency by a colossal majority 18 months ago, and again in the mayoral election, something must have changed.

Brexit, and a hard Brexit likelihood. The country doesn't want it. Suck it up, as they say.
The referendum firing gun had not even been fired 18 months ago, were the people of Richmond even aware of Goldsmith's position back then? Richmond doesn't represent or speak for the rest of the country, suck that up.
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:39
Landis
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People change their minds and policies - the Lib Dems even have historically even had different policies depending on which part of country they are standing in at any one time.
People change their minds? WTF.
What people said before you voted is rather important is it not?? Especially those that were urging you to Leave......which was not Cameron and Osborne if I recall....

Before you voted....Farage was talking about Norway everywhere. You have never seen Farage on Question Time talking about Norway?
Owen Patterson said that only a Madman would actually leave their Membership of the Single Market. He said that before we voted.
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:45
Ash_M1
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Where is the data you have used to arrive at that fact?
These are the stats. A simple Google will lead you to them.
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:50
CLL Dodge
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Sadly people seem to have short memories. The Lib Dems should die out, they sold out those who were not Tories.
A party cobbled together from the remains of two failed parties and whose parliamentary supprt is for sale to the highest bidder.

An ideal dumping ground for protest votes.

(from a former LibDem voter)
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:50
Ash_M1
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I haven't been brain-washed by anybody, thanks. If you actually read my post you'll see that I never said that I believe any of that - I voted remain!
The economic ills of this country go back way before 2010 - some many decades like the idiotic housing policies of successive governments and the poor regulation of banks and other financial institutions.
Then I apologise. You are right in what you say. Privatisation...selling all our assets to private outlets which has resulted in globalisation...

The irony here is this...a lot of the Leave vote was from Tories/right-wingers...so we have this strange phenomena whereby tories vote for tories like sheep yet voted against the tories in the EU Ref. You couldn't make it up.
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:50
allaorta
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ALL of which will be under massive pressure, and certain cutbacks thanks to the cost of Brexit. Do you realise we have a €60B liability even before any loss of tax revenue or future payments for access?

The thick people are not those who support those ideals, but those who swallow your simplistic rubbish that leaving the EU is the answer.

And I'm waiting for an apology for alleging I live in Essex.
Why, prior to bringit in to the GLC it was in Essex and their football team plays in the Essex league. I come from a west of London town which became a London Borough in 1965 but it's people still use Middlesex.

Incidentally, I'm considering trying to get Ben Goldsmith into court after he called Sarah Olney "drab". I think it's discrimantory to single her out from other Liberals.
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:51
Longshot
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As a female resident of Richmond said on Sky this morning, they live in a bubble and don't know what happens in the rest of the country. They have low crime, live in an affluent area where most of the kids go to private school and have no idea what its like to live up north.

I don't think the Lib Dems can read anything into this other than the residents of Richmond didn't like the Brexit vote and that's why they got in. As others have said the Sleaford by election will probably tell us a lot more. The residents of Richmond probably look down on the people of this country who voted Brexit as some sort of idiots who shouldn't have a say on what goes on.

I wonder if Zac Goldsmith rues the day he resigned from the Tory party. Mind you at least he stood by his word to do so if Heathrow was the chosen airport.
That's quite an assumption and says a lot more about your insecurities than it does about the people of Richmond.
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:51
Aftershow
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This result is hardly surprising and doesn't tell us anything about the public mood towards brexit.
Overturning a sitting MP with a 23,000 majority, who resigned on a point of principle which is apparently very important to his constituents, is quite clearly surprising, no matter how you try and spin it.
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:52
Welsh-lad
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If you live there no wonder you think life is wonderful and things should stay as they are as you are doing very well thank you. But outside that sort of bubble clearly a lot of people aren't feeling like that.
I think that's a fair point. Many people are in despair.
Though I can't see how ripping ourselves out of the single market, endangering 20% of our GDP by possibly losing our financial services industry etc is gong to help them.

As usual the wrong thing has been blamed.
The disgusting right wing elements of our political scene (Farage and his cronies) have effectively harnessed that despair and turned it to serve their own isolationist, nationalistic, and yes, racist, little agenda.
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:53
burneside
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People change their minds? WTF.
What people said before you voted is rather important is it not?? Especially those that were urging you to Leave......which was not Cameron and Osborne if I recall....

Before you voted....Farage was talking about Norway everywhere. You have never seen Farage on Question Time talking about Norway?
Owen Patterson said that only a Madman would actually leave their Membership of the Single Market. He said that before we voted.
I think you need to view Owen Patterson's full interview re membership of the single market, it was edited by Open Britain to suit their agenda. Andrew Neil tore James McGrory to pieces about that little deception (plus a few other instances of selective editing).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9dKcjfeVTs
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:54
trevgo
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My sister lives nearby and she is a proud Essex girl. Sorry - it was always Essex and still is.

I don't think people I disagree with are thick I just think they just disagree with me. And maybe people who disagree with you aren't thick - they just disagree with you.

Cos it wasn't the wealthy people of Richmond who voted for and gave us a welfare state or the NHS - it's the sort of place that historically would have opposed all these positive changes as its full of people doing nicely and always has been. It's those sort of areas who voted leave like Sunderland who voted in these advancements for ordinary folk.

You want us to be part of an inward looking protectionist anti free market European club - and you are entitled to that view. But disagreeing with that position doesn't make you thick.
I do not believe everyone who disagrees with me is thick, so long as they articulate their point intelligently and coherently. That is a very rare occurrence from Leavers.

Debating whether the well healed residents of RoT supported the creation of the welfare state is somewhat ridiculous in 2016. As a matter of fact, I'd say the "educated" wealth and old money types who predominate there are more welfare-ist than the brash new money found in Essex and the home counties. It's why the LibDems managed to win the seat in the past. There's more brash money moved in since, which is why it went Tory - along with the fact Zac was popular and local.

Your last para would be funny if it weren't so sadly hypocritical. You complain about immigration harming working class people, yet call the EU "anti free market". What it tries to do is protect standards of living and jobs within by protection. You've handed this country over to the fanatical free marketeers who will scrap all tariffs to all countries a la Minford, if given a chance. That would do far more to hurt your precious working class (of which I am a member) than eastern Europeans doing jobs our own won't.

And if I live in Essex, then everyone west of Tower Bridge is in Middlesex. What rubbish.
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:55
allaorta
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I think that's a fair point. Many people are in despair.
Though I can't see how ripping ourselves out of the single market, endangering 20% of our GDP by possibly losing our financial services industry etc is gong to help them.

As usual the wrong thing has been blamed.
The disgusting right wing elements of our political scene (Farage and his cronies) have effectively harnessed that despair and turned it to serve their own isolationist, nationalistic, and yes, racist, little agenda.
That's the first time I've ever read that on here.
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:55
Javed
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That was a car-crash radio interview, I don't rate her chances with Andrew Neil. I expect her media appearances will be strictly vetted in future.
JHB was being very silly. But Olney should have had the wit to point out that she can be thrown out at the next GE, unlike Brexit which is with us forever. That's the difference.
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:56
koantemplation
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A party cobbled together from the remains of two failed parties and whose parliamentary supprt is for sale to the highest bidder.

An ideal dumping ground for protest votes.

(from a former LibDem voter)
In the 80s before the rise of the Greens, I really thought the Lib Dems were a good alternative to the main two parties. They had good policies on the environment and workers rights, and a balance between Socialism and Capitalism.

But they dropped their environmental credentials and sold out the workers.

I dislike them with venom because they pretended to be something they were not.
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:57
jjwales
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A party cobbled together from the remains of two failed parties
Which became a successful party, so clearly that was a good move!

and whose parliamentary supprt is for sale to the highest bidder.
Are you suggesting some form of corruption here?


An ideal dumping ground for protest votes.

(from a former LibDem voter)
As am I, but clearly I don't view them as harshly as you do.
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:57
MARTYM8
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As a female resident of Richmond said on Sky this morning, they live in a bubble and don't know what happens in the rest of the country. They have low crime, live in an affluent area where most of the kids go to private school and have no idea what its like to live up north.

I wonder if Zac Goldsmith rues the day he resigned from the Tory party. Mind you at least he stood by his word to do so if Heathrow was the chosen airport.
A fair assessment. If life is wonderful why not keep things as they are!

As for Zac he made a bad political choice but it was an honourable one. He said he would force a by election and he did. But as he is worth over £300m it was probably less of a personal risk as well.

We do need the third runaway at Heathrow cos it's the only viable option given its hub status and transport connections. I can't think of more deserving people to benefit from it that the electorate of Richmond Park!
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:58
trevgo
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Why, prior to bringit in to the GLC it was in Essex and their football team plays in the Essex league. I come from a west of London town which became a London Borough in 1965 but it's people still use Middlesex.
50 years ago it was in Essex.

But then I as that's the era back to which you want to drag the country, no doubt you'd like it to return.
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:58
allaorta
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I do not believe everyone who disagrees with me is thick, so long as they articulate their point intelligently and coherently. That is a very rare occurrence from Leavers.

Debating whether the well healed residents of RoT supported the creation of the welfare state is somewhat ridiculous in 2016. As a matter of fact, I'd say the "educated" wealth and old money types who predominate there are more welfare-ist than the brash new money found in Essex and the home counties. It's why the LibDems managed to win the seat in the past. There's more brash money moved in since, which is why it went Tory - along with the fact Zac was popular and local.

Your last para would be funny if it weren't so sadly hypocritical. You complain about immigration harming working class people, yet call the EU "anti free market". What it tries to do is protect standards of living and jobs within by protection. You've handed this country over to the fanatical free marketeers who will scrap all tariffs to all countries a la Minford, if given a chance. That would do far more to hurt your precious working class (of which I am a member) than eastern Europeans doing jobs our own won't.

And if I live in Essex, then everyone west of Tower Bridge is in Middlesex. What rubbish.
Your learning, my boy, but not enough to know that it's RuT, not RoT.
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:59
burneside
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JHB was being very silly. But Olney should have had the wit to point out that she can be thrown out at the next GE, unlike Brexit which is with us forever. That's the difference.
Brexit is with us unless and until there is another referendum which reverses the position. The losing side in 1975 had to wait 40 years for another say in the matter, so don't give up hope quite yet.
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Old 02-12-2016, 13:00
trevgo
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We do need the third runaway at Heathrow cos it's the only viable option given its hub status and transport connections. I can't think of more deserving people to benefit from it that the electorate of Richmond Park!
It will never be built.

Most of the MPs in affected constituencies are Tories.

London has more planes over it than any other capital city, and cannot stand any more.
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Old 02-12-2016, 13:01
DadDancer
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I think they need to have a re-run as people didn't really know what they were voting for and only 25% of the constituency actually voted for the Lib Dem candidate with the 50% turnout.......
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Old 02-12-2016, 13:02
Ash_M1
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Some purely personal observations and opinions. No facts!

Zac was a popular MP, at least before the mayority campaign. People repected him for actually keeping his word and resigning his seat over Heathrow. Overturning Zac's majority was a major acheivement by the LibDems.

But, one by-election doesn't change much. Richmond is not typical of many other constituences as it was LibDem fairly recently and was very pro-Remain in the referendum, while Zac was clearly a Brexit supporter.

Looking forwards, hopefully the government remembers that many Tory voters in the UK voted Remain, and they do have options in the next GE. Hard Brexit wasn't an option on the ballot, and the majority was slim. 48% voted Remain, and if the government goes for hard Brexit, they will certainty not have the support of the majority.

The Tories have long been split over the EU, and Labour are too scared of UKIP in the North to put forward a pro-EU policy. Only one major party speaks for those that didn't want to Leave. It could be a very quick rebound for the LibDems if the Tories go for extreme Brexit, especally if the economy tanks between now and 2020.
The tories have been pushed ever right-ward because they are scared of Ookip. Labour and Corbyn...enough said. The point is, there is a huge vacuum in the centre (where most people are) which are not being represented or spoken to. This is where The Dems come in. They will hoover up the Remain vote, those Leavers who don't want a Hard Brexit and those Labour voters who couldn't vote for Corbyn. The Tories and OOkip are now simply one and the same. It's only The Dems offering the country a sensible alternative.
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Old 02-12-2016, 13:03
allaorta
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I think they need to have a re-run as people didn't really know what they were voting for and only 25% of the constituency actually voted for the Lib Dem candidate with the 50% turnout.......
Yeah and the majority was lower than in the referendum.
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Old 02-12-2016, 13:03
Soppyfan
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I must be one of the few people who had an inkling the Libdems could pull this off and they did.

Let's see if the polls will keep the Libdems on 7%, now.
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