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Old 02-12-2016, 18:50
niceguy1966
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His vote stayed roughly the same, that is a fact. (minus 2000 odd votes)

The Lib Dems gain a massive amount of votes from the other parties.

The Majority is over the 2nd place party. NOT all the other parties put together..
Yep, post-fact world. Are there any unicorns in your version of reality?
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Old 02-12-2016, 18:51
trevgo
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The Liberal, and Corbyn , position is untenable, democratically, and politically. You can't, now, tell over half the electorate to shut up, and not mention immigration , as its good for them.
It's not about telling people immigration is good for them. Firstly, this whole debacle will have made some question their attitude about immigration. I have done so myself. And whilst I think there has been too much, a) non-EU immigration concerns me more than the EU variety and b) if I have to make a choice between dealing with the matter or stopping it and blowing up the economy, I will take the former every time.

And polls indicate a majority are with me. It is highly likely, if the EU is as hardball as I think it's going to be, that we will be left precisely with that binary choice. And why we absolutely should have a vote on it.
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Old 02-12-2016, 18:52
hansue
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I see Anna Soubry has been congratulating the winner - does anyone know what her constituency voted in the EU referendum.
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Old 02-12-2016, 18:53
niceguy1966
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His vote stayed roughly the same, that is a fact. (minus 2000 odd votes)

The Lib Dems gain a massive amount of votes from the other parties.

The Majority is over the 2nd place party. NOT all the other parties put together..
Your idea of a fact is actually total fiction. It wasn't 2000 less by a mile.

You wouldn't know a fact if it bit you on the arse.
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Old 02-12-2016, 19:00
MARTYM8
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I see Anna Soubry has been congratulating the winner - does anyone know what her constituency voted in the EU referendum.
Leave. And then she proceeded to call her own constituents bigots for doing so, p

http://www.broxtowe.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=15396

One of the few places I am hoping for a Labour gain in 2020.
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Old 02-12-2016, 19:00
Annsyre
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Labour wanted Zac beaten.
Job done.
So much for Zac being popular eh?
The total of Labur's vote was not enough to have decided the result, do the maths.
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Old 02-12-2016, 19:01
koantemplation
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Your idea of a fact is actually total fiction. It wasn't 2000 less by a mile.

You wouldn't know a fact if it bit you on the arse.
rolleyes

I was working with the wrong figures.

I now know it was 15,000 less than last election.
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Old 02-12-2016, 19:04
hansue
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Leave. And then she proceeded to call her own constituents bigots for doing so, p

http://www.broxtowe.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=15396

One of the few places I am hoping for a Labour gain in 2020.
Thanks. I'm wondering if she will defect to the Lib Dems as she seems to be the most vocal remain Tory.
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Old 02-12-2016, 19:06
BanglaRoad
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The total of Labur's vote was not enough to have decided the result, do the maths.
You are ignoring Labour voters who went Lib this time.
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Old 02-12-2016, 19:08
Aurora13
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I think "sensible" Tories are starting to wake up and realise that there is a battle for the future of the country which needs winning. With Labour seemingly out to lunch, someone has to stand up to the Tory Nutters and the Kippers.

I was talking to a colleague at work today who said that he had been a Tory party member since he was a student but had decided to join the Lib Dems. The result in Richmond is going to make a lot of Tory Leavers in supposedly safe seats feel nervous. I don't think we'll be seeing any of them resigning "on principle" any time soon.
Interesting piece I read today that some Leave voting Tories in June were going across to Lib Dems in recent days in Richmond. They don't want hard brexit. I don't know what Brexit Zac sold them but they clearly thought it was something different. Same with Tory MP who resigned in Sleaford.
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Old 02-12-2016, 19:12
Nick1966
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You can spin it all you like. It wouldn't be repeated in many constituencies, but in some it certainly would. Why did they do so well in Witney? The LD's need to get organising around here. The sitting lefty MP is a Brexiter, and who's constituency straddles two boroughs. One was 59/41 Remain, and the other 55/45. And the bit in his would have been higher, no question..
Exactly. For the Tories, this is now a numbers game.

Tory sitting MPs are now at stake where they're defending slim majorities in areas with 'remain' or 'hard Brexit' majorities.
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Old 02-12-2016, 19:14
Blairdennon
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I thought though that the populist right is all about smashing the elites and the establishment. It seems Ms Olney is being ridiculed for not being a career politician or knowing how to play the media game.
Smashing the elite? I have never said that. It is about ensuring the 'elite' do not rule in an undemocratic fashion as they have done with regards the EU for over 20 years.
Miss Olney was quizzed on what she has said and how that compares to her own victory. I would have thought that was fair game. Any ridicule was of her own making and since JHB was articulating the questions from the majority of the voting electorate that seems a reasonable stance.
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Old 02-12-2016, 19:29
allaorta
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My point would be that May seems to be thinking she has no choice but to take the UK out of the Single Market in order to appease the "hardline" British public. If these trends were to continue at future by-elections, she may have to start reassessing things.
What's it like being full of ponderables and imponderables, yeah but ifs?
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Old 02-12-2016, 19:34
Annsyre
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You are ignoring Labour voters who went Lib this time.
How do you know if and how many Labour voters went LibDem?
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Old 02-12-2016, 19:34
Mesostim
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Smashing the elite? I have never said that. It is about ensuring the 'elite' do not rule in an undemocratic fashion as they have done with regards the EU for over 20 years.
.
Translation: It's about the "elite" being on my side.
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Old 02-12-2016, 19:34
luckylegs
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I see Anna Soubry has been congratulating the winner - does anyone know what her constituency voted in the EU referendum.

http://www.broxtowe.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=15396

To Leave

Not by a big margin but who cares a win is a win

You only have to score 1 goal and if the other team don't score anything you've won
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Old 02-12-2016, 19:40
luckylegs
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Yep, I thought Labour losing their deposit was almost as big a story as the size of the swing from Tory back to Lib Dem.
It was always a Lib Dem seat - it's the Rich Mond people giving a nod to how Liberal and welfare orientated they are living in La La Land.
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Old 02-12-2016, 19:41
niceguy1966
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rolleyes

I was working with the wrong figures.

I now know it was 15,000 less than last election.
You said it was a "fact" that his vote didn't drop. Not big on facts are you!
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Old 02-12-2016, 19:41
allaorta
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Keep on. You're just proving the backward delusion of Brexiters. You can't cope with something that changed 50 years ago.

I suppose you think the residents of Milton Keynes live in one large field.
The nice thing about those times is there were aspirations that the world would become a better place, that Britain would become a better place. So disappointing.

And on the subject of addresses I just popped "car sales romford" into google:

http://www.chariotsofromford.co.uk/

http://www.cms-carsales-ltd.co.uk/

https://plus.google.com/105659792085658247380/posts

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Old 02-12-2016, 19:43
allaorta
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Many of the areas in the north that voted Brexit in large numbers are also unaffected by immigration.
Richmond upon Thames isn't up north and is nothing like most of 'up north'.
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Old 02-12-2016, 19:45
allaorta
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Keep on. You're just proving the backward delusion of Brexiters. You can't cope with something that changed 50 years ago.

I suppose you think the residents of Milton Keynes live in one large field.
Nah, it was several fields that weren't in Milton Keynes, which was a luvvly little vilage.
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Old 02-12-2016, 19:47
Blairdennon
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Translation: It's about the "elite" being on my side.
??? That is a strange translation when the EU has only once in the UK been submitted to the judgement of the electorate and has been found wanting. I think we can agree that 'the elite' in broad terms much prefer that we are members of the EU. There is only one side and that is the democratic one and 'the elite' should accept that, not seek to overrule it which is illustrative of the problem.
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Old 02-12-2016, 19:51
luckylegs
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The nice thing about those times is there were aspirations that the world would become a better place, that Britain would become a better place. So disappointing.

And on the subject of addresses I just popped "car sales romford" into google:

http://www.chariotsofromford.co.uk/

http://www.cms-carsales-ltd.co.uk/

https://plus.google.com/105659792085658247380/posts

Don't be daft they want it on a plate now, not aspirational just needy and expects it to land right in their laps. University education was a luxury now it is expected

They think if they make enough laws and have enough CCTV it will all be alright no personal discipline or responsibility needed.
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Old 02-12-2016, 19:52
howard h
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Richmond upon Thames isn't up north and is nothing like most of 'up north'.
Don't put us down so! Harrogate and Hale can give Richmond-under-Thames (global warming, see what I did there??) a run for it's money, and residents of Wilmslow and Alderley Edge aren't short either!
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Old 02-12-2016, 19:54
howard h
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Nah, it was several fields that weren't in Milton Keynes, which was a luvvly little vilage.
I remember Newport Pagnell and the area from my kidhood - 60's and 70s. Brings tears to my eyes (and other places too) just looking at the nuclear devastation that is MK and the surrounding area.
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