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Old 04-12-2016, 17:02
Syntax Error
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Two days since her 'massive mandate' and she is still quiet.

I have visions of her in the LibDem's Correctional Centre for Crap Interviewees.
She does 'quiet' extremely well; Julia Hartley-Brewer will tell you that.
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Old 04-12-2016, 17:16
LostFool
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Not really. Wealthy people imposing things on others which they claim is wonderful while using their wealth to ensure they don't have to experience it themselves.

If you live in London and talk endlessly about the benefits of diversity and multiculturalism as she does why do you choose to Live in the least diverse and least multicultural place in the entire city? It's just a little odd?
Maybe people like living there because it is convenient for Heathrow.

Actually, that part of west London is very diverse. It may not be as economically diverse as Islington where you have to be either very poor or very rich to live there, but Kingston and Richmond do attract people from all over the world many of them will be working for the numerous international companies which have their HQs in west London.
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Old 04-12-2016, 17:18
lemonbun
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The foreign born population of Kingston is 29% of the total population. For Richmond the foreign born population is 24%.

Both figures are far above the national average and multiples of that of most areas in the country that voted Leave. She clearly is "living it" far more than the most Leave voters.
She is living with rich 'foreign born' members of the population.

Many parts of the country are not in that happy utopia. They are living with 'foreign born' people who are able, though no fault of their own, to allow many employers to have so many jobs at the minimum wage.
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Old 04-12-2016, 17:45
Nodger
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The question is why are they taking over, what's caused people to vote for them when they hadn't before?
Hadn't you heard Jock? It's those pesky Russians and their all conquering hacking, propaganda and fake news that's the reason, they've managed to take over and dupe huge swathes of populations around the world.....(apparently).
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Old 04-12-2016, 17:56
andykn
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Hadn't you heard Jock? It's those pesky Russians and their all conquering hacking, propaganda and fake news that's the reason, they've managed to take over and dupe huge swathes of populations around the world.....(apparently).
I don't think you can blame the Russians for plastering 350m for the NHS all over the leave website and bus.
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Old 04-12-2016, 17:56
ianradioian
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But we should retain all farmland, This is one of the reasons why we need to leave the EU. To protect British farming. We should be producing food for our own country not to sell to other countries.
Yes; I agree. Farmland should never be built upon with the structure of the UK now; theres literally thousands and thousands of brownfield sites already in urban areas that should be developed first- enough space for the population explosion that we are going to experience.
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Old 04-12-2016, 18:00
ianradioian
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I look at the edifice that is the EU and think it is the most Stalinist organisation to exist since the wall went down - whatever political movement achieves it does not bother me.

So yes, the EU crumbling is worth it,
The EU was a good idea but its failed. The Worlds a very different place today. The euro is a failing currency thatll collapse once Britain isnt paying into the EU to prop it up.
The only thing Europe and us have to stick together on and work in conjunction with, is NATO.
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Old 04-12-2016, 18:05
Jayceef1
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The usual straw man argument of course.

Is there any limit you see - another ten million twenty million or thirty millions to supposedly boost GDP (albeit GDP per person falls) which benefits the wealthiest ten per cent or less.

Labour doesn't want to control immigration as it wants the votes and the Tories don't want to control immigration as their corporate donors - and perhaps some of the millionaires in the previous Cabinet - want the cheap labour. And in any case inside the EU we cannot control immigration or limit it to those who will be net contributors - so it's academic what they want to do.


So the answer seemingly is

Let's build millions more houses - but politicians have been talking about thst for 20 years and they haven't been built. Why - cos we don't have the capacity and developers who run the show never will build enough as it will hit their profits

Let's steal other nations young people - cos after all they don't have old people as well who need looking after

Let's steal doctors and nurses from other poorer countries - cos hey we need them more than those poorer nations.

And let's borrow another few trillion to deliver the other infrastructure needed - cos we don't have a huge deficit or enough debt already.

Frankly this approach doesn't wash and isn't right. Maybe instead of more houses that will never be built controlling the numbers of new people needing housing would be a lot cheaper and a lot easier.

Cos if GDP goes up but GDP per head falls all these extra people aren't necessarily making us all richer - just big corporations and their directors.
Great post, well said
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Old 04-12-2016, 18:14
MARTYM8
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Where is your league of London places by diversity and multiculturality and where does her residence come on it?
RIchmond was the only London borough in the 2011 census which had a white British population above 85 per cent. The average was 49 per cent and in some boroughs below 20 per cent.

So why does she live in Richmond and not say Newham where she could embrace a wider range of cultures rather than her preferred monoculture and also get much bigger house for far less money?

Just a thought!
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Old 04-12-2016, 18:20
jjwales
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RIchmond was the only London borough in the 2011 census which had a white British population above 85 per cent. The average was 49 per cent and in some boroughs below 20 per cent.

So why does she live in Richmond and not say Newham where she could embrace a wider range of cultures rather than her preferred monoculture and also get much bigger house for far less money?
I would suggest that it's none of your business where she lives or why she lives there. It affects no one but herself. Though obviously it makes perfect sense for her to live in the constituency that she represents.
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Old 04-12-2016, 18:23
rusty123
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Hold on, you were on the remain side but you wouldn't want our country to be in the EU if we were voting to join? Seems rather contradictory.
My reasons for voting to stay in were to do with how I envisaged our attempts to leave negatively impacting on me and things like my pension fund in the ten short years until I'm due to retire. I look at the way political parties are trying to redefine themselves along pro and anti European memberships lines and how totally clueless they think we all must be when it comes to how negotiations work and if anything those fears I had are growing. I have zero faith in those who are now playing party politics over the Brexit decision to be able to get us the best possible divorce settlement.

Let a third party know you've got a plan B and prepared to compromise on x, y and z your plan B is their starting point. You've no longer got a plan A...actually that's not strictly true.... you have....it's in a folder where the B has been crossed out and an A has been handwritten over the top in crayon.

I'm not a fan of absolute freedoms of movement and immigration policies akin to handing out 300 million or so open invitations and crossing one's fingers in the hope that only a few bother to turn up. I'm not a fan of a court that sits above our supreme court and is beyond the influence of the UK electorate.. that's undemocratic in my opinion. I'm certainly not a fan of the single currency.

So no, if we weren't already in the mad house I certainly wouldn't look to become a member of it in its present guise.

I don't think it's particularly controversial or contradictory to say it's a club I'd never look to join but have concerns about how we'll leave, particularly when certain UK parties so obviously don't want to.


To address your first point, I fully respect our representative democracy in parliament.
I do not respect democracy by referenda as they are divisive and have deeply misleading campaigns (on both sides), they appeal to people's emotions and fears; they're acrimonious and confrontational.
I've every respect for representative democracy so long as it's based on honest policies and not the opportunistic BS, spin and general contempt for the electorate we've all come to know and loathe.
Divisive and misleading campaigning has been the operating standard for years. It's not a tactic politicians save for special occasions like referenda so I wouldn't single them out for special attention.


And before you make out that this is because my side lost, that is not the case.
I voted remain.

I opposed referenda as far back as 1997 when I was 16 and we had the horridly divisive Welsh devolution referendum. That delivered the result I wanted, as it happens, but it should have been a parliamentary decision imv.
There are things that the public probably shouldn't have the final word on when they've got the added task of having to decide who is being economical with the truth and laying the BS and spin on thick. But whose fault is that? The electorate's or those parties who rely on them not scratching the surface of their arguments?
You could say it's both, but I'd be more inclined to point the finger at those in whom we're supposed to be able to trust.
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Old 04-12-2016, 18:31
Blairdennon
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I would suggest that it's none of your business where she lives or why she lives there. It affects no one but herself.
It however has an edge to it if one says place X is a wonderful multicultural area where migrants have enriched our society culturally and bought untold economic benefits.
It is a kind of Billy Bragg moment or a Dianne Abbot moment when praising comprehensives.
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Old 04-12-2016, 18:33
allaorta
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I don't think you can blame the Russians for plastering 350m for the NHS all over the leave website and bus.
It was Russian plaster.
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Old 04-12-2016, 18:34
Nodger
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It was Russian plaster.
and printers.
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Old 04-12-2016, 18:37
allaorta
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My reasons for voting to stay in were to do with how I envisaged our attempts to leave negatively impacting on me and things like my pension fund in the ten short years until I'm due to retire. I look at the way political parties are trying to redefine themselves along pro and anti European memberships lines and how totally clueless they think we all must be when it comes to how negotiations work and if anything those fears I had are growing. I have zero faith in those who are now playing party politics over the Brexit decision to be able to get us the best possible divorce settlement.

Let a third party know you've got a plan B and prepared to compromise on x, y and z your plan B is their starting point. You've no longer got a plan A...actually that's not strictly true.... you have....it's in a folder where the B has been crossed out and an A has been handwritten over the top in crayon.

I'm not a fan of absolute freedoms of movement and immigration policies akin to handing out 300 million or so open invitations and crossing one's fingers in the hope that only a few bother to turn up. I'm not a fan of a court that sits above our supreme court and is beyond the influence of the UK electorate.. that's undemocratic in my opinion. I'm certainly not a fan of the single currency.

So no, if we weren't already in the mad house I certainly wouldn't look to become a member of it in its present guise.

I don't think it's particularly controversial or contradictory to say it's a club I'd never look to join but have concerns about how we'll leave, particularly when certain UK parties so obviously don't want to.




I've every respect for representative democracy so long as it's based on honest policies and not the opportunistic BS, spin and general contempt for the electorate we've all come to know and loathe.
Divisive and misleading campaigning has been the operating standard for years. It's not a tactic politicians save for special occasions like referenda so I wouldn't single them out for special attention.




I voted remain.



There are things that the public probably shouldn't have the final word on when they've got the added task of having to decide who is being economical with the truth and laying the BS and spin on thick. But whose fault is that? The electorate's or those parties who rely on them not scratching the surface of their arguments?
You could say it's both, but I'd be more inclined to point the finger at those in whom we're supposed to be able to trust.
^^^^^^^^^^^ This ^^^^^^^^^^^^ every word of it.
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Old 04-12-2016, 18:39
allaorta
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Gosh, we learn something new every day. Well researched.
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Old 04-12-2016, 18:40
MARTYM8
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I would suggest that it's none of your business where she lives or why she lives there. It affects no one but herself. Though obviously it makes perfect sense for her to live in the constituency that she represents.
She can live where she likes but her choice of place to live is perhaps rather telling of what her real attitudes are.
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Old 04-12-2016, 19:07
andykn
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She can live where she likes but her choice of place to live is perhaps rather telling of what her real attitudes are.
Don't judge others by your own standards. Most people I know decide where to live in London based on where they work, where their friends and family live and what they can afford. They don't have access to your secret league table of cultural area mix.
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Old 04-12-2016, 19:19
jjwales
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She can live where she likes but her choice of place to live is perhaps rather telling of what her real attitudes are.
Perhaps only to you. I wouldn't give it a second thought. Anyway there'd be no point in her moving out of the constituency where she lives. And if she did move to a poorer, more "multicultural" area elsewhere, she'd probably be accused of gesture politics!
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Old 04-12-2016, 20:02
LostFool
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It however has an edge to it if one says place X is a wonderful multicultural area where migrants have enriched our society culturally and bought untold economic benefits.
RIchmond and Kingston are multicultural areas with very successful economies. Just because much of the immigration is white and/or professional doesn't mean that it lacks diversity. You don't have to be poor and from an ethnic minority to be diverse.

If you look at the most economically successful (and mostly Remain-voting) towns and cities in the UK they are all culturally diverse as they attract people from across the UK and abroad to live and work there. While diversity doesn't bring economic success, it's hard to have economic success without having diversity.
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Old 04-12-2016, 20:06
TeeGee
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Nick Clegg is getting very excited and imploring all right minded people to hold their noses when voting and vote out Brexit MPs. I don't think he realises that this works both ways. It is all livening up a bit.
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Old 04-12-2016, 20:09
TeeGee
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Don't judge others by your own standards. Most people I know decide where to live in London based on where they work, where their friends and family live and what they can afford. They don't have access to your secret league table of cultural area mix.
BIB - I expect he has access to statistics on the internet.
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Old 04-12-2016, 20:11
barrcode88
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Politicians are the worst kind of human being.

The worst kind of politician?

..a Lib Dem.
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Old 04-12-2016, 20:17
jjwales
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Politicians are the worst kind of human being.

The worst kind of politician?

..a Lib Dem.
I think murderers and rapists are probably the worst kind of human being.

And Lib Dems aren't that bad as politicians. Think BNP.
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Old 04-12-2016, 20:19
allaorta
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I think murderers and rapists are probably the worst kind of human being.

And Lib Dems aren't that bad as politicians. Think BNP.
Read up on Jeremy Thorpe.
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