Originally Posted by Welsh-lad:
“Hold on, you were on the remain side but you wouldn't want our country to be in the EU if we were voting to join? Seems rather contradictory.”
My reasons for voting to stay in were to do with how I envisaged our attempts to leave negatively impacting on me and things like my pension fund in the ten short years until I'm due to retire. I look at the way political parties are trying to redefine themselves along pro and anti European memberships lines and how totally clueless they think we all must be when it comes to how negotiations work and if anything those fears I had are growing. I have zero faith in those who are now playing party politics over the Brexit decision to be able to get us the best possible divorce settlement.
Let a third party know you've got a plan B and prepared to compromise on x, y and z your plan B is their starting point. You've no longer got a plan A...actually that's not strictly true.... you have....it's in a folder where the B has been crossed out and an A has been handwritten over the top in crayon.
I'm not a fan of absolute freedoms of movement and immigration policies akin to handing out 300 million or so open invitations and crossing one's fingers in the hope that only a few bother to turn up. I'm not a fan of a court that sits above our supreme court and is beyond the influence of the UK electorate.. that's undemocratic in my opinion. I'm certainly not a fan of the single currency.
So no, if we weren't already in the mad house I certainly wouldn't look to become a member of it in its present guise.
I don't think it's particularly controversial or contradictory to say it's a club I'd never look to join but have concerns about how we'll leave, particularly when certain UK parties so obviously don't want to.
Originally Posted by Welsh-lad:
“To address your first point, I fully respect our representative democracy in parliament.
I do not respect democracy by referenda as they are divisive and have deeply misleading campaigns (on both sides), they appeal to people's emotions and fears; they're acrimonious and confrontational.”
I've every respect for representative democracy so long as it's based on honest policies and not the opportunistic BS, spin and general contempt for the electorate we've all come to know and loathe.
Divisive and misleading campaigning has been the operating standard for years. It's not a tactic politicians save for special occasions like referenda so I wouldn't single them out for special attention.
Originally Posted by Welsh-lad:
“And before you make out that this is because my side lost, that is not the case.”
I voted remain.
Originally Posted by Welsh-lad:
“ I opposed referenda as far back as 1997 when I was 16 and we had the horridly divisive Welsh devolution referendum. That delivered the result I wanted, as it happens, but it should have been a parliamentary decision imv.”
There are things that the public probably shouldn't have the final word on when they've got the added task of having to decide who is being economical with the truth and laying the BS and spin on thick. But whose fault is that? The electorate's or those parties who rely on them not scratching the surface of their arguments?
You could say it's both, but I'd be more inclined to point the finger at those in whom we're supposed to be able to trust.