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Old 04-12-2016, 22:08
Blairdennon
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RIchmond and Kingston are multicultural areas with very successful economies. Just because much of the immigration is white and/or professional doesn't mean that it lacks diversity. You don't have to be poor and from an ethnic minority to be diverse.

If you look at the most economically successful (and mostly Remain-voting) towns and cities in the UK they are all culturally diverse as they attract people from across the UK and abroad to live and work there. While diversity doesn't bring economic success, it's hard to have economic success without having diversity.
Chicken and egg. Success brings diversity or diversity brings success? They may be co existent now that mass immigration has occurred but Richmond was rich and successful before diversity whereas many cities now on the decline are diverse. If diversity comes hand in hand with success then unfortunately it also comes hand in hand with decline and where there is decline there is break up of the social fabric and diversity accentuates that.
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Old 04-12-2016, 22:15
Penny Crayon
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Read up on Jeremy Thorpe.
What about Jeremy Thorpe?
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Old 04-12-2016, 22:39
koantemplation
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Chicken and egg. Success brings diversity or diversity brings success? They may be co existent now that mass immigration has occurred but Richmond was rich and successful before diversity whereas many cities now on the decline are diverse. If diversity comes hand in hand with success then unfortunately it also comes hand in hand with decline and where there is decline there is break up of the social fabric and diversity accentuates that.
It seems to me that immigrants migrate to already poor areas that then see even more of a decline.

Only areas rich people move into seem to improve. Gentrification and yuppie dom for example.
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Old 04-12-2016, 22:40
koantemplation
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Read up on Jeremy Thorpe.


Not to forget Cyril Smith.
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Old 04-12-2016, 22:47
andykn
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Chicken and egg. Success brings diversity or diversity brings success? They may be co existent now that mass immigration has occurred but Richmond was rich and successful before diversity whereas many cities now on the decline are diverse.
And many cities not in decline are diverse too. You might as well say many cities in decline start with a consonant.
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Old 04-12-2016, 22:52
allaorta
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Not to forget Cyril Smith.
Yes and him.
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Old 04-12-2016, 23:00
Blairdennon
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And many cities not in decline are diverse too. You might as well say many cities in decline start with a consonant.
You also may say that diversity exists as opposed to has a positive effect. It exists very well where there is success but it is a catalyst for anger and dissent and injustice where decline exists. Lozells was a riot along ethnic lines and the only white faces were those trying to restore law and order. The London riots tended to be split on ethnic lines with armed groups of each ethnicity protecting themselves and in many instances chasing off others.
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Old 04-12-2016, 23:20
andykn
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You also may say that diversity exists as opposed to has a positive effect. It exists very well where there is success but it is a catalyst for anger and dissent and injustice where decline exists. Lozells was a riot along ethnic lines and the only white faces were those trying to restore law and order. The London riots tended to be split on ethnic lines with armed groups of each ethnicity protecting themselves and in many instances chasing off others.
Yet we've had fewer riots in the last few years than we had in the 80s and diversity is far higher now. So by your logic diversity reduces tensions.
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Old 05-12-2016, 00:00
Kiteview
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RIchmond was the only London borough in the 2011 census which had a white British population above 85 per cent. The average was 49 per cent and in some boroughs below 20 per cent.
Not according to the ONS it doesn't and they are the people who compile the census data.

So why does she live in Richmond and not say Newham where she could embrace a wider range of cultures rather than her preferred monoculture and also get much bigger house for far less money?

Just a thought!
Again, she lives in North Kingston, not Richmond. As has already been pointed out both Kingston & Richmond have foreign born populations that are way above the national average, so they clearly aren't 'monocultures'. They both stand in sharp contrast to very many Leave areas.

Also, given that she works in Teddington (which is in the west of Richmond borough but not in the Richmond Park constituency), it is a perfectly reasonable place for her to live to ensure a short commute. It is rather bizarre to expect her to live in Newham given that would mean she'd be faced with a commute that would take almost two hours each way!
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Old 05-12-2016, 00:17
Kiteview
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She is living with rich 'foreign born' members of the population.
That's a major assumption as Richmond Park (the East of Richmond Borough and "North Kingston" which covers a huge chunk of Kingston Borough) has variations in income & wealth just like anywhere else.

Many parts of the country are not in that happy utopia. They are living with 'foreign born' people who are able, though no fault of their own, to allow many employers to have so many jobs at the minimum wage.
I am not sure I follow your point fully but you seem to blaming employers for this if I read it right? Voting Leave or Remain in themselves aren't going to effect unscrupulous employers, are they?
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Old 05-12-2016, 18:46
Blairdennon
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Yet we've had fewer riots in the last few years than we had in the 80s and diversity is far higher now. So by your logic diversity reduces tensions.
However the London riots, and other cities in 2011, were far worse and more widespread than anything and strangely they happened largely in very diverse areas. So not sure where you got the fewer from?
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Old 05-12-2016, 19:08
LostFool
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Hilarious seeing a protestor outside the Court saying "We don't trust unelected judges to give a unbiased verdict".

So would elected judges be "unbiased" in their assessment of the law or just do what was popular to whoever their electorate was?
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Old 05-12-2016, 19:34
Blairdennon
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Hilarious seeing a protestor outside the Court saying "We don't trust unelected judges to give a unbiased verdict".

So would elected judges be "unbiased" in their assessment of the law or just do what was popular to whoever their electorate was?
Not well put but the problem is that every person has beliefs and prejudices and yet they are considering law that may affect the whole country and themselves in term of career. A judge with a private ambition to serve on the ECJ is a potential problem for impartial consideration of the law. The whole issue of Europe has many conflicts of interest and we do not know what they are because we trust them to recuse themselves. The issue is not that they should be elected the issue is that the outcome is being considered by people who are unelected, if you see the difference.
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Old 05-12-2016, 19:46
MARTYM8
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Hilarious seeing a protestor outside the Court saying "We don't trust unelected judges to give a unbiased verdict".

So would elected judges be "unbiased" in their assessment of the law or just do what was popular to whoever their electorate was?
You could get rid of them as they would be accountable to voters - rather than perhaps the local freemason's lodge!
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Old 06-12-2016, 00:17
andykn
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However the London riots, and other cities in 2011, were far worse and more widespread than anything and strangely they happened largely in very diverse areas.
Or, as they're otherwise known, cities.
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Old 06-12-2016, 07:44
LostFool
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You could get rid of them as they would be accountable to voters - rather than perhaps the local freemason's lodge!
Surely judges should be there to implement the law (which was written and approved by elected politicians) not to follow public opinion. The US is just about the only country in the world to have elected judges. You need to take a look there to see how bad an idea it is.
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Old 06-12-2016, 12:14
MARTYM8
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Interesting development - was there another reason the Greens didn't stand in Richmond? Did they get £250000 from a rich donor with conditions attached?

http://order-order.com/2016/12/06/gr...tand-richmond/

At the last general election the Greens got 3500 votes in the seat - twice Sarah Olneys new majority.
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Old 06-12-2016, 16:31
Blairdennon
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Or, as they're otherwise known, cities.
No because not all cities were involved and not all areas of cities were involved.
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:24
smudges dad
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Interesting development - was there another reason the Greens didn't stand in Richmond? Did they get £250000 from a rich donor with conditions attached?

http://order-order.com/2016/12/06/gr...tand-richmond/

At the last general election the Greens got 3500 votes in the seat - twice Sarah Olneys new majority.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...b07ac72449d351

The Green Party has vehemently denied its candidate stepped aside in the Richmond Park by-election following the offer of £250,000 by a wealthy potential donor.

HuffPost UK has learned that Andree Frieze, who stepped aside as candidate in Richmond Park and North Kingston, had no knowledge of the donation offer or discussions around it when she made her decision not to stand.
Frieze told HuffPost: “Today is the first I have heard of this donation, so clearly it had no influence on my decision to stand aside.”

A Green party spokesman said that in the end no donation was accepted, but suggested an investigation would be conducted into the claims.
“This is an unofficial report from three members of Kingston Green Party and is not officially recognised by either the national Green Party or the local party in question. Many of the claims are disputed and this report has been referred to the Green Party Regional Council and will be looked into as soon as possible.
“The Green Party has not accepted any major donations connected with the Richmond Park by-election and no donation offer was contingent on the Party not fielding a candidate.
“Any donation accepted by the Green Party must meet strict ethical criteria and that includes the donation not being used to gain leverage over strategic decisions.”
Looks like Guido is sh!t stiring.
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:38
Jayceef1
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No, because they haven't denied the offer was made. Just that they haven't accepted it.

Why would a green candidate not stand in an election that was originally held on a prominent green issue?

The fact the candidate denies she knew could be just a case of plausible deniability. The decision could have been at a higher level with a strong suggestion that it would be a good idea not to stand just to get a better chance to unseat Goldsmith.
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:47
smudges dad
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No, because they haven't denied the offer was made. Just that they haven't accepted it.

Why would a green candidate not stand in an election that was originally held on a prominent green issue?

The fact the candidate denies she knew could be just a case of plausible deniability. The decision could have been at a higher level with a strong suggestion that it would be a good idea not to stand just to get a better chance to unseat Goldsmith.
The Green Party has vehemently denied its candidate stepped aside in the Richmond Park by-election following the offer of £250,000 by a wealthy potential donor.
That looks like a denial to me, but maybe the words "vehemently denied" mean something else to you.
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:49
RRL
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looks like selective editing on your part of what you quote. You forgot this bit


Guido has asked them if an offer was made in relation to the ‘Progressive Alliance’, as the local chair claims, and why party officials told the local party such an offer existed. They have declined to answer

Perhaps you would like to get on the phone and ask them to answer, what with your alleged Green contacts and all ............
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:53
Talma
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Has anyone noticed Ms Olney doing the rounds of the media to expand on her magnificent victory and humungous mandate yet? I haven't heard anything at all of or from her since last Friday, just wondered if anyone else had.
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Old 06-12-2016, 18:11
RobMiles
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Interesting development - was there another reason the Greens didn't stand in Richmond? Did they get £250000 from a rich donor with conditions attached?

http://order-order.com/2016/12/06/gr...tand-richmond/

At the last general election the Greens got 3500 votes in the seat - twice Sarah Olneys new majority.
It gets better. You can even read a report about the offer co-written by the Kingston Green Party chair Ryan Coley.

http://order-order.com/2016/12/06/re...t-local-chair/
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Old 06-12-2016, 18:14
Jayceef1
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That looks like a denial to me, but maybe the words "vehemently denied" mean something else to you.
They denied that that was the reason she stepped aside. They DID NOT deny that the offer had been made (vehemently or otherwise).
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