I thought this was well done, and Roth was superb. However, I think the Attenborough portrayal was superior.
Rillington Place.
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Originally Posted by harrypalmer:
“He's a methodical bastard too.”
“He's a methodical bastard too.”
This is one thing that interests me, but sadly we will never know the answer to the workings of his mind.
Yes he was so methodical in his planning and luring people back, but after the event, he was slapdash and almost wanted to be caught. How did he ever think that he was going to get away with anything by just putting the bodies in cupboards and under floorboards. It was only a matter of time before they were found. He just gave up at the end and walked the streets until his arrest. Love to know what he was thinking.
Originally Posted by waz101:
“It is believed from contemporary sources that Ethel Christie was a successful Abortionist herself!
"With no contraception and no legal abortion many of the women found themselves with unwanted pregnancies. Christie and Ethel capitalised on this and performed illegal abortions in their kitchen. Ethel would perform the abortion, while Christie would set up the anesthetic. A rubber tube from the gas stove put the women out with coal gas. The scheme worked well. The Christie's became well known in the area for their procedures."
See more here https://www.goodreads.com/author_blo...inald-christie
Though if you hunt around you can find pretty similar stories about her.
I suppose the Film & TV show chose not to include it (and nor did the Police in their case) as it confuses the narrative.
Given that the TV show had 3 hours i think it should have been explored this time?”
“It is believed from contemporary sources that Ethel Christie was a successful Abortionist herself!
"With no contraception and no legal abortion many of the women found themselves with unwanted pregnancies. Christie and Ethel capitalised on this and performed illegal abortions in their kitchen. Ethel would perform the abortion, while Christie would set up the anesthetic. A rubber tube from the gas stove put the women out with coal gas. The scheme worked well. The Christie's became well known in the area for their procedures."
See more here https://www.goodreads.com/author_blo...inald-christie
Though if you hunt around you can find pretty similar stories about her.
I suppose the Film & TV show chose not to include it (and nor did the Police in their case) as it confuses the narrative.
Given that the TV show had 3 hours i think it should have been explored this time?”
That link was a very interesting read bout Christie and Ethel. I didn't know that about Ethel.
Great drama though!
Originally Posted by RickyLeeds85:
“What a stunning piece of drama, Tim Roth was superb and so creepy as Christie. One question why was he only found guilty for his wife's murder and not the other girls?”
“What a stunning piece of drama, Tim Roth was superb and so creepy as Christie. One question why was he only found guilty for his wife's murder and not the other girls?”
The prosecution will always pick the charge which is the easiest to prove. In this case it was Ethel. Christie had actually admitted to killing all the women in the cellar. However, his defence team wanted to use an insanity plea.
For that reason there was a trial and Ethel was the focus of the prosecution.
a brilliant piece of television, especially Samantha Morton and Tim Roth (we can forgive him now taking the FIFA shilling and playing Sepp Blatter in that awful film).
My only gripe were the end credits, over in, how many seconds, 5?? Why on earth the rush? You expect that on commercial TV but why do it on the BBC? It must be very insulting for people who worked on the programme.
My only gripe were the end credits, over in, how many seconds, 5?? Why on earth the rush? You expect that on commercial TV but why do it on the BBC? It must be very insulting for people who worked on the programme.
Originally Posted by Brian The Dog:
“This is one thing that interests me, but sadly we will never know the answer to the workings of his mind.
Yes he was so methodical in his planning and luring people back, but after the event, he was slapdash and almost wanted to be caught. How did he ever think that he was going to get away with anything by just putting the bodies in cupboards and under floorboards. It was only a matter of time before they were found. He just gave up at the end and walked the streets until his arrest. Love to know what he was thinking.”
“This is one thing that interests me, but sadly we will never know the answer to the workings of his mind.
Yes he was so methodical in his planning and luring people back, but after the event, he was slapdash and almost wanted to be caught. How did he ever think that he was going to get away with anything by just putting the bodies in cupboards and under floorboards. It was only a matter of time before they were found. He just gave up at the end and walked the streets until his arrest. Love to know what he was thinking.”
Yes, if it wasn't a true story it would be laughable. In those days, though, car ownership was rare, so victims murdered in the home didn't go far.
To put Ethel in context as an abortionist, you have to remember that there weren't any effective forms of contraception for poor women until the 1960's, so abortion was the only option.
Abortionists would generally have had some midwifery experience of some kind and were valued and respected in their very poor communities.
Wealthier women could be (and were) having abortions performed in sterile conditions in clinics by Doctors & Nurses at the same time. They also had access to relatively successful contraceptive devices (Coil and other IUD's etc) and the Marie Stopes services.
So it's not totally black & white with Ethel's story.
Though I'd imagine the reason that a lot of Christie's victims went to him initially was because he and Ethel were trusted in their community to perform successful and safe abortions. They were already known in their local area.
Abortionists would generally have had some midwifery experience of some kind and were valued and respected in their very poor communities.
Wealthier women could be (and were) having abortions performed in sterile conditions in clinics by Doctors & Nurses at the same time. They also had access to relatively successful contraceptive devices (Coil and other IUD's etc) and the Marie Stopes services.
So it's not totally black & white with Ethel's story.
Though I'd imagine the reason that a lot of Christie's victims went to him initially was because he and Ethel were trusted in their community to perform successful and safe abortions. They were already known in their local area.
Originally Posted by RecordPlayer:
“At the end it said Evans was pardoned but still guilty. I can't imagine him killing his daughter.
”
“At the end it said Evans was pardoned but still guilty. I can't imagine him killing his daughter.
”
Evans was granted a posthumous pardon for both murders, however the conviction has never been quashed. This is the official reason -
The last judicial review in 2004 called it "an historic and unique injustice" but decided it would not bring any "tangible benefit" to the family or the public to refer his case to the Court of Appeal.
Originally Posted by Faust:
“Evans was granted a posthumous pardon for both murders, however the conviction has never been quashed. This is the official reason -
The last judicial review in 2004 called it "an historic and unique injustice" but decided it would not bring any "tangible benefit" to the family or the public to refer his case to the Court of Appeal.”
“Evans was granted a posthumous pardon for both murders, however the conviction has never been quashed. This is the official reason -
The last judicial review in 2004 called it "an historic and unique injustice" but decided it would not bring any "tangible benefit" to the family or the public to refer his case to the Court of Appeal.”
maybe they should let the family be the judge of that, I say
Originally Posted by Faust:
“Evans was granted a posthumous pardon for both murders, however the conviction has never been quashed. This is the official reason -
The last judicial review in 2004 called it "an historic and unique injustice" but decided it would not bring any "tangible benefit" to the family or the public to refer his case to the Court of Appeal.”
“Evans was granted a posthumous pardon for both murders, however the conviction has never been quashed. This is the official reason -
The last judicial review in 2004 called it "an historic and unique injustice" but decided it would not bring any "tangible benefit" to the family or the public to refer his case to the Court of Appeal.”
I don't know why not. I'm sure surviving members of his family would be pleased to have his name finally cleared. It's like they don't want to admit that a terrible injustice was done.
Originally Posted by waz101:
“To put Ethel in context as an abortionist, you have to remember that there weren't any effective forms of contraception for poor women until the 1960's, so abortion was the only option.
Abortionists would generally have had some midwifery experience of some kind and were valued and respected in their very poor communities.
Wealthier women could be (and were) having abortions performed in sterile conditions in clinics by Doctors & Nurses at the same time. They also had access to relatively successful contraceptive devices (Coil, Dalkon Shield etc) and the Marie Stopes services.
So it's not totally black & white with Ethel's story.
Though I'd imagine the reason that a lot of Christie's victims went to him initially was because he and Ethel were trusted in their community to perform successful and safe abortions. They were already known in their local area.”
“To put Ethel in context as an abortionist, you have to remember that there weren't any effective forms of contraception for poor women until the 1960's, so abortion was the only option.
Abortionists would generally have had some midwifery experience of some kind and were valued and respected in their very poor communities.
Wealthier women could be (and were) having abortions performed in sterile conditions in clinics by Doctors & Nurses at the same time. They also had access to relatively successful contraceptive devices (Coil, Dalkon Shield etc) and the Marie Stopes services.
So it's not totally black & white with Ethel's story.
Though I'd imagine the reason that a lot of Christie's victims went to him initially was because he and Ethel were trusted in their community to perform successful and safe abortions. They were already known in their local area.”
It explains why she testified against Tim Evans. What she was doing was illegal and she could have gone to prison herself had she told the truth.
Originally Posted by Reality Sucks:
“It explains why she testified against Tim Evans. What she was doing was illegal and she could have gone to prison herself had she told the truth.”
“It explains why she testified against Tim Evans. What she was doing was illegal and she could have gone to prison herself had she told the truth.”
I agree. Missing out this key fact is strange.
Originally Posted by Aurora13:
“I agree. Missing out this key fact is strange.”
“I agree. Missing out this key fact is strange.”
As I said in a previous post it wasn't publicized at the time because is spoils the prosecution narrative. Plus as he was only prosecuted for his 'Abortionist Wife's' murder I'd doubt that the police would have wanted it presented in evidence?
But it was confirmed by several journalists and researchers at the time.
I posted a link to a citation on the previous post but here it is again.
https://www.goodreads.com/author_blo...inald-christie
With a little research you can find many more citations.
These young women while poor were far from stupid. The good local abortionists were well known to them and their Mothers. Only bad abortionists (who accidentally killed women) were ever prosecuted.
Changes the on-screen presentations a little?
There were marked differences in the characters compared with the film. John Hurt's Evans was more vocal and animated, and Richard Attenborough's portrayal was a ball of fire compared with Tim Roth's Christie.
With serial killers and the trial they put one name forward as main victim. Other wise the trial would last for years, they have to give evidence for each murder and go through them separately. They put the other murders on record as done by the killer.
Christie was in prison for stealing postal orders in the 1930s, actually think he got 6 years? Ethel had left him for the shame and he got back in contact begging her to back.
Come on and lets put the proper name out there. He was a necrophilic, he kept the tin box as trophies and had a little play remembering.
There were complains about smell from the flat but he said the drains I believe and he had his final spree in the winter. Don't forget in those days no central heating. In the last few months is when he killed Ethel and the women in the cupboard so a short period. There were rumours of more victims during the war as he was out and about in the black out doing his policing duties. People got crushed in bombed building so hard to say how they died. I read Keith Simpson's book and quite a few tried to get away with murdering the wife or unwanted girlfriend that way.
No Tim Roth is not bald
He shaved his head and dyed his remaining hair for the pair.
Christie was in prison for stealing postal orders in the 1930s, actually think he got 6 years? Ethel had left him for the shame and he got back in contact begging her to back.
Come on and lets put the proper name out there. He was a necrophilic, he kept the tin box as trophies and had a little play remembering.
There were complains about smell from the flat but he said the drains I believe and he had his final spree in the winter. Don't forget in those days no central heating. In the last few months is when he killed Ethel and the women in the cupboard so a short period. There were rumours of more victims during the war as he was out and about in the black out doing his policing duties. People got crushed in bombed building so hard to say how they died. I read Keith Simpson's book and quite a few tried to get away with murdering the wife or unwanted girlfriend that way.
No Tim Roth is not bald
He shaved his head and dyed his remaining hair for the pair.
Originally Posted by dollylovesshoes:
“Good grief he is so creepy.
Timothy is buried in our local graveyard here in Leyton London.. St Patrick's. His body was moved to St Patrick's after his official pardon.
”
“Good grief he is so creepy.
Timothy is buried in our local graveyard here in Leyton London.. St Patrick's. His body was moved to St Patrick's after his official pardon.
”
Where was he buried before?
I thought the necrophilia bit hadn't been proved? Some say he gassed his victims then had sex with them before he killed them. Obviously, nobody really knows whether he killed them first or not. Still a horrible bloke though.
Originally Posted by Leicester_Hunk:
“Where was he buried before?”
“Where was he buried before?”
The Capital Punishment Amendment Act of 1868 required that a formal inquest be held after an execution and that the prisoner be buried within the grounds of the prison unless directed otherwise by the sheriff of the county. This practice continued up to abolition. The burial normally took place at lunchtime and was carried out by prison officers and overseen by the chaplain who conducted a simple burial service. The position of the grave was recorded in the Burial Register for the prison. Prisons in major cities soon had quite large graveyard areas. Where prisons were demolished for redevelopment the bodies were removed and buried elsewhere, normally in consecrated ground.
Morton looked a bit too young to play Ethel, and she was too attractive really , especially in the courtroom scenes, amazing what a hat and a bit of lippy can do.
Glasgow city centre doing a manful job pretetending to be London.
Glasgow city centre doing a manful job pretetending to be London.
Originally Posted by Horace Wimp:
“Morton looked a bit too young to play Ethel, and she was too attractive really , especially in the courtroom scenes, amazing what a hat and a bit of lippy can do.
Glasgow city centre doing a manful job pretetending to be London.”
“Morton looked a bit too young to play Ethel, and she was too attractive really , especially in the courtroom scenes, amazing what a hat and a bit of lippy can do.
Glasgow city centre doing a manful job pretetending to be London.”
A few of the interior scenes were also shot within the former Glasgow City Council offices in George Street.
More just not getting that it's based on reality on Gogglebox:
"I hope they get him!" Said one like it was just a film plot.
"I hope they get him!" Said one like it was just a film plot.
Would love a time machine and go back and talk to him. Simple friendly questions at first and then let him know that I knew what was going on and see his reaction.
Of course I would be armed to the teeth and one false moved and he would be tazered, pepper sprayed and shot all in one go!
Of course I would be armed to the teeth and one false moved and he would be tazered, pepper sprayed and shot all in one go!
I didn't watch it because I remember the actual events so vividly. Am i right, or should I give it a go.
Originally Posted by grey:
“I didn't watch it because I remember the actual events so vividly. Am i right, or should I give it a go.”
“I didn't watch it because I remember the actual events so vividly. Am i right, or should I give it a go.”
Only you can answer that as it's based on how things affect you. If it will cause you suffering then best give it a miss. However if you can take it as just a dramatisation of events and detach yourself from it then it's definitely worth a watch.
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