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Old 08-12-2016, 10:35
Projectionist
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Thanks If it was up to me you could have 50kw from the Ross, anchored safely in Harwich. Why not breathe some new life into the dying MW band? Sadly I don't work for ofcom....
Now that would be nice - sadly, I don't think Caroline could even pay the electricity bill just to power the 50K - let alone all the other factors - but I do hope with MW being used far less, the bandwidth restrictions that HAVE been applied by OFCOM can be relaxed - most of the Global stations on MW sound like they have got a sock in their mouths - this goes not only for Caroline, but to Quasar & any others that get a licence.
There is no reason they should not have the sort of quality (aided by an optimod or similar) that Caroline had in 1983. With "Intelligent" frequency allocation, this is perfectly achievable.
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Old 08-12-2016, 11:34
hanssolo
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Now that would be nice - sadly, I don't think Caroline could even pay the electricity bill just to power the 50K - let alone all the other factors - but I do hope with MW being used far less, the bandwidth restrictions that HAVE been applied by OFCOM can be relaxed - most of the Global stations on MW sound like they have got a sock in their mouths - this goes not only for Caroline, but to Quasar & any others that get a licence.
There is no reason they should not have the sort of quality (aided by an optimod or similar) that Caroline had in 1983. With "Intelligent" frequency allocation, this is perfectly achievable.
The less than 4.5khz audio bandwidth restrictions are to keep within the 9khz allocation by the ITU to prevent interence to adjacent Eueopean stations. This does not affect the US as stations are further away but where HD sidebands are used the AM audio sound also suffers.
India has starte using 20khz bandwidth but so they can use AM and DRM on the same transmiter.

Maybe as more counties including the UK give up AM the ITU will allow AM stations to use more than 9khz bandwidth, but will not happen during 2017 and if they get licences Caroline and Quasar will have to filter audio below 4.5khz.
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Old 09-12-2016, 23:15
SeanpBrady
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Since Radio Caroline have applied for the allocation of an AM / MW channel, and so much has been made of the possible allocation of 648 kHz, is this the actual channel which may be allocated to the station?

It's such a shame that 558 kHz is unavailable as there is no possibility, I believe, that Spectrum Radio would want to vacate this channel.

Since Radio Caroline's former use of 558 kHz in the 1980s caused reception issues, in the London area, for Ireland's RTE Radio 1 on 567 kHz, what about Radio Caroline being allocated 567 kHz, or indeed, the other former Ireland-allocated frequency of 612 kHz, which was used by RTE Radio 2 (later 2FM).

Speaking of low AM / MW channels, what about Radio Caroline being allocated one of the following: 675 kHz, 702 kHz, 729 kHz, 738 kHz, 819 kHz, 891 kHz, 927 kHz or 990 kHz.

Or how about the possible allocation of 1071 kHz?
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Old 09-12-2016, 23:33
number6
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Since Radio Caroline have applied for the allocation of an AM / MW channel, and so much has been made of the possible allocation of 648 kHz, is this the actual channel which may be allocated to the station?

It's such a shame that 558 kHz is unavailable as there is no possibility, I believe, that Spectrum Radio would want to vacate this channel.

Since Radio Caroline's former use of 558 kHz in the 1980s caused reception issues, in the London area, for Ireland's RTE Radio 1 on 567 kHz, what about Radio Caroline being allocated 567 kHz, or indeed, the other former Ireland-allocated frequency of 612 kHz, which was used by RTE Radio 2 (later 2FM).

Speaking of low AM / MW channels, what about Radio Caroline being allocated one of the following: 675 kHz, 702 kHz, 729 kHz, 738 kHz, 819 kHz, 891 kHz, 927 kHz or 990 kHz.

Or how about the possible allocation of 1071 kHz?
Not sure about all of these but...
1071 was used by the French. Maybe not in use now but still allocated.
729 is/was BBC Essex
675 in Holland would be too close.
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Old 10-12-2016, 00:28
SeanpBrady
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Not sure about all of these but...
1071 was used by the French. Maybe not in use now but still allocated.
729 is/was BBC Essex
675 in Holland would be too close.
1071 kHz could be moved from France to UK use, much in the same way that Russia relinquished use of 549 kHz so that Spirit Radio could use it from their County Monaghan (Eire)-based transmitter.

I didn't realise that BBC Essex were still using 729 kHz - sorry! Likewise, I was under the impression that Holland were no longer using 675 kHz.
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Old 10-12-2016, 08:26
buglawton
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Inclined to agree. Having read the application it relies more than a little of the notion of "we're a broadcasting legend" so give us a license.

It's a difficult one for ofcom: Do they dish out a license based on a relatively weak application (based on their traditional critera), or refuse and risk a backlash from anoraks and inevitable negative media coverage.

I suspect what will happen is that ofcom WILL offer a license, but won't budge on power levels.

All that said, it would be refreshing for ofcom to take the view that AM is a dying medium and rapidly becoming irrelevant, so why not let the anoraks have their fun and dish out 5kw on 648?

Interesting also to see that this application puts any ship based emissions firmly to bed.... Reality bites!
So AM is just like steam power then. Funny that the heritage steam train industry is having a boom time then isn't it?
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Old 10-12-2016, 10:21
hanssolo
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÷
So AM is just like steam power then. Funny that the heritage steam train industry is having a boom time then isn't it?
Having an AM signal in E Anglia will help with the heritage appeal and promote the £20 boat trips to the boat, hopefully not having a live transmitter on the ship will reduce H and S issues and will allow public tours on the boat itself when presenters are also on board.
From the Ross Revenge FAQ
We must not make rash decisions now that we may regret in years to come. Perhaps we would all like to see the Ross Revenge at a permamnent quayside mooring, broadcasting as Radio Caroline by whatever media is available in the future. In the summer months she could unplug herself from the quayside and sail to various seaside tourist locations, broadcasting around the world as she goes.
Looks like the idea of mooring in one of the Thames estuary towns is out if they keep the boat offshore in Essex. Wether quayside mooring or going to other places will come is open to debate?
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Old 10-12-2016, 10:38
David_Ayling
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Since Radio Caroline have applied for the allocation of an AM / MW channel, and so much has been made of the possible allocation of 648 kHz, is this the actual channel which may be allocated to the station?

It's such a shame that 558 kHz is unavailable as there is no possibility, I believe, that Spectrum Radio would want to vacate this channel.

Since Radio Caroline's former use of 558 kHz in the 1980s caused reception issues, in the London area, for Ireland's RTE Radio 1 on 567 kHz, what about Radio Caroline being allocated 567 kHz, or indeed, the other former Ireland-allocated frequency of 612 kHz, which was used by RTE Radio 2 (later 2FM).

Speaking of low AM / MW channels, what about Radio Caroline being allocated one of the following: 675 kHz, 702 kHz, 729 kHz, 738 kHz, 819 kHz, 891 kHz, 927 kHz or 990 kHz.

Or how about the possible allocation of 1071 kHz?
no they cant use 1071khz as talksport use it in Nottingham, Newcastle
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Old 10-12-2016, 10:48
oscar1
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Speaking of low AM / MW channels, what about Radio Caroline being allocated one of the following: 675 kHz, 702 kHz, 729 kHz, 738 kHz, 819 kHz, 891 kHz, 927 kHz or 990 kHz.

Or how about the possible allocation of 1071 kHz?
891khz is out of the question ----- have a listen to the test tone that has been on there for weeks from Algeria.
Very strong on the west coast of Wales ---- 10:45 am and still there on Sangean ATS 803A with internal aerial.
Regards
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Old 10-12-2016, 11:03
Inkblot
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891khz is out of the question ----- have a listen to the test tone that has been on there for weeks from Algeria.
Very strong on the west coast of Wales ---- 10:45 am and still there on Sangean ATS 803A with internal aerial.
Regards
Picked that up at around 7pm whilst parked up at an Overground station in London this week. Wondered why anyone would bother with a test tone on AM nowadays.
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Old 10-12-2016, 11:37
satman17
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So am I right in saying a brand new Tx site will be built? seems close to mendlesham ? and who is paying for all of this
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Old 10-12-2016, 14:59
SeanpBrady
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no they cant use 1071khz as talksport use it in Nottingham, Newcastle
Thanks, David - I should really have done a little more research than I did!

I'd failed to notice that 1071 kHz was occupied by Talk Sport.
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Old 10-12-2016, 15:02
SeanpBrady
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891khz is out of the question ----- have a listen to the test tone that has been on there for weeks from Algeria.
Very strong on the west coast of Wales ---- 10:45 am and still there on Sangean ATS 803A with internal aerial.
Regards
Oscar1, thank you! I had failed to note the test tone on 891 kHz from Algeria. Since it is very strong on the west cooast of Wales, it may be causing reception difficulties for listeners to BBC Radio Wales on the adjacent channel of 882 kHz.
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Old 10-12-2016, 15:38
LaurelandHardy
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Oscar1, thank you! I had failed to note the test tone on 891 kHz from Algeria. Since it is very strong on the west cooast of Wales, it may be causing reception difficulties for listeners to BBC Radio Wales on the adjacent channel of 882 kHz.
I thought that test tone on 891 was coming from the former Radio 538 transmitter? It had been putting out a loop announcement previously telling listeners to retune to DAB.
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Old 10-12-2016, 16:34
gardensleeper
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So AM is just like steam power then. Funny that the heritage steam train industry is having a boom time then isn't it?
I think that's good analogy - Steam trains are loved in the memories of millions, but when did a kettle last turn up on your commute to work?

Rather like the offshore pirates.

Many heritage lines are doing well, run by volunteers, their summer weekend fares and santa specials paying for their coal and infrastructure, their legions of smartly uniformed volunteers giving up hours of their free time for nothing but the love of it.

Few if any lines make a 'profit' - though not really an appropriate term as most are charities/trusts. They also help keep an important part of our history and industrial past alive. Again, an interesting comparison to the role of pirates in the dawn of popular music/culture.

If Caroline et al can draw upon the steam railway model to find a sustainable future on AM, it would be a wonderful way of keeping the dream alive, providing mutual enjoyment to listeners and volunteers.

What needs to be guarded against is any pretentions of taking on the mass market or chasing a mainstream audience. There financial failure lies.
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Old 11-12-2016, 15:35
G.F.M.
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Surely, Caroline needs to broadcast from the Ross, to give the programmes that unique feel. Anchored preferably a few hundred metres off a popular seaside resort. Even just a couple of KW would give a good signal with the antenna over water. Good luck to them.
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Old 11-12-2016, 15:59
JERRY HIPKISS
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What needs to be guarded against is any pretentions of taking on the mass market or chasing a mainstream audience. There financial failure lies.
And herein lies the problem. While many (or even most) of us would love to see Caroline legally on AM after all these years, a low powered signal to a limited area playing a niche album format isn't going to be an easy sell to pay the bills...
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Old 11-12-2016, 17:53
Projectionist
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And herein lies the problem. While many (or even most) of us would love to see Caroline legally on AM after all these years, a low powered signal to a limited area playing a niche album format isn't going to be an easy sell to pay the bills...
Exactly. So the bills have to be kept as low as humanly possible.
Using the ship routinely, would push the bills up sky high.
So it's kept for special occasions & when the is some sponsorship.
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Old 12-12-2016, 00:19
buglawton
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Let's get to to nub of the issue: OFCOM abides by rules that prevent 'community' radio stations being anything other than trivial - to ensure they pose no risk of competing with the commercial stations/BBC. When the AM band was crowded it was easy to justify keeping a station like Caroline to special appearances at tiny power levels. With AM emptying out it could have been time for a rule change. Trouble is, if you let one nonprofit station have a non-trivial power level, lots of other special interest groups would want equal treatment. It's easier to say no to all of them, even if it means AM going to waste. Hands up anyone who doesn't still have AM available on their car radio?

Behind that policy is some sort of official desire to kill AM off altogether. I'm just not sure why.
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Old 12-12-2016, 06:52
hanssolo
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Let's get to to nub of the issue: OFCOM abides by rules that prevent 'community' radio stations being anything other than trivial - to ensure they pose no risk of competing with the commercial stations/BBC. When the AM band was crowded it was easy to justify keeping a station like Caroline to special appearances at tiny power levels. With AM emptying out it could have been time for a rule change. Trouble is, if you let one nonprofit station have a non-trivial power level, lots of other special interest groups would want equal treatment. It's easier to say no to all of them, even if it means AM going to waste. Hands up anyone who doesn't still have AM available on their car radio?

Behind that policy is some sort of official desire to kill AM off altogether. I'm just not sure why.
The problem with AM is that broadcasters are finding it expensive to maintain the masts and AM costs are several times DAB. The audio bandwidth has to be restricted to prevent interference with other stations at night. Listeners are findind more interference at home. DAB/FM set and mobile handset makers are finding it harder to incorporate AM without buzzzing from other circuitry.
Therefore AM listening is declining and Ofcom are reacting by helping to promote digital platforms. Caroline have specially requested AM and Ofcom have given a chance to get a licence.

3 community stations in London who got AM licences handed back the licences before getting on air.

UKRD sold Eagle Extra 1566 to Premier as costs were rising. Caroline could have also bid but may not have raised the money from supporters. Caroline now have a chance to get a lower cost AM setup in Suffolk.
It's possible Caroline could bid for 1368 in the IoM but the costs will also be high.
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Old 12-12-2016, 07:41
Projectionist
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Let's get to to nub of the issue: OFCOM abides by rules that prevent 'community' radio stations being anything other than trivial - to ensure they pose no risk of competing with the commercial stations/BBC. When the AM band was crowded it was easy to justify keeping a station like Caroline to special appearances at tiny power levels. With AM emptying out it could have been time for a rule change. Trouble is, if you let one nonprofit station have a non-trivial power level, lots of other special interest groups would want equal treatment. It's easier to say no to all of them, even if it means AM going to waste. Hands up anyone who doesn't still have AM available on their car radio?

Behind that policy is some sort of official desire to kill AM off altogether. I'm just not sure why.
It is very probably the policy of the BBC, to get rid of AM, & the BBC is very influential.
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Old 12-12-2016, 12:57
Gerry1
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Behind that policy is some sort of official desire to kill AM off altogether. I'm just not sure why.
Control.

If you limit radio to FM/DAB/DAB+ then you don't have to worry about people listening to stations, ideas and information from other countries.

Better still, if you limit radio to DAB/DAB+ then you don't even have to worry about pirates offering non-approved programming.

Gotcha...
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Old 12-12-2016, 16:05
MikeBr
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Control.

If you limit radio to FM/DAB/DAB+ then you don't have to worry about people listening to stations, ideas and information from other countries. (
Which radio stations using mediumwave would I wish to listen to instead of using the internet, satellite television, newspapers and magazines, social media sites etc etc? Or is stage 2 for all these to be blocked to and how would all that get through Parliament.

As to DAB I can listen to Radio Sputnik and Radio Sino 24/7 to get information from Russia and China so it has increased access to this.
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Old 12-12-2016, 16:29
Les Wires
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Control.

If you limit radio to FM/DAB/DAB+ then you don't have to worry about people listening to stations, ideas and information from other countries.

Better still, if you limit radio to DAB/DAB+ then you don't even have to worry about pirates offering non-approved programming.

Gotcha...
Which may be one of the reasons DRM on MW and SW was not embraced.
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Old 12-12-2016, 16:52
MikeBr
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Which may be one of the reasons DRM on MW and SW was not embraced.
Or it may not as we don't live in North Korea. It's a very odd method of control when DAB offers greater access to Russian and soft Chinese propaganda, then add in all the other ways you can now access it.
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