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New MacBook Pro with USB-C dongle hell (or not ?)


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Old 01-12-2016, 17:24
tdenson
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I think the point is you shouldnt have to buy any suitable hub when they should have the connectors in place anyway. Also ditching the card reader was simply daft.
Only if you are a user of an onboard card reader. I would wager that 95% of laptop users never use one.
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Old 01-12-2016, 19:28
ibatten
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Those with long memories will remember Slashdot's prescient slating of the iPod (a noted commercial failure, which cemented Apple's decline into irrelevance) in favour of the Creative Nomad, which famously swept all before it and confirmed Creative as a major force in the industry. "Lame" was right, and showed that devices which have fewer, and proprietary, interfaces, fails in the market.

https://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/...-releases-ipod
The BrownFury writes

"At an invitation only event Apple has released their new MP3 player called the iPod. iPod is the size of a deck of cards. 2.4" wide by 4" tall by .78" thick 6.5 ounces. 5 GB HDD, 10 hr battery life, charged via FireWire. Works as a firewire drive as well. Works in conjunctions with iTunes 2. Here are Live updates"

No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame.
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Old 01-12-2016, 20:27
Stiggles
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Only if you are a user of an onboard card reader. I would wager that 95% of laptop users never use one.
95%? Are you sure about that?!!

It's a pro machine designed for pro users apparently. Those pro users will indeed be using the card reader. Photographers, video content makers etc etc.

So i think you are way off the mark here.
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Old 01-12-2016, 23:09
ibatten
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95%? Are you sure about that?!!

It's a pro machine designed for pro users apparently. Those pro users will indeed be using the card reader. Photographers, video content makers etc etc. .
Software developers, academics, musicians: none of them need SD. An increasing number of the photographers will be using WiFi or (particularly) NFC, too.

Claiming that everyone who buys a Mac Pro is a Pro photographer is like claiming everyone who buys a 4x4 has a farm.
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Old 02-12-2016, 04:34
Stiggles
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Software developers, academics, musicians: none of them need SD. An increasing number of the photographers will be using WiFi or (particularly) NFC, too.

Claiming that everyone who buys a Mac Pro is a Pro photographer is like claiming everyone who buys a 4x4 has a farm.
I don't remember claiming everyone....

Amusingly, after you saying that, you then wrongly claim several professions don't need SD readers or cards!!

Photographers and videographers will still use SD cards for a long time yet. Its far more convenient than wifi transfer. My cousin owns a photography business, and speaking to him he agrees. It's far quicker to swap out an SD card in the middle of a shoot than wait for a wifi transfer then clear the memory to make room for more photos. The same goes for video.

Wifi transfer is for amateurs who are not on a time based shoot or doing a wedding shoot etc.

Musicians also use SD cards depending on what you do. Many sampling machines etc use them. Many pro keyboards also use them.

I do wish when apple drop something, apple fans would stop claiming people never used them nor does anyone need them. I welcome new tech and new ways of doing things, but ease into it. Don't drop absolutely everything the vast majority still use and adopt something that is in little use right now. Support both. I use a macbook pro 2015 and i use legacy USB, card reader and displayport a lot, and I don't fancy forking out more money for countless dongles on top of a laptop that's almost doubled in price to add functionality i already had.

Add to this the idiotic dropping of the magsafe! What lunatic decided that was a good idea?
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Old 02-12-2016, 06:18
kidspud
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I don't remember claiming everyone....

Amusingly, after you saying that, you then wrongly claim several professions don't need SD readers or cards!!

Photographers and videographers will still use SD cards for a long time yet. Its far more convenient than wifi transfer. My cousin owns a photography business, and speaking to him he agrees. It's far quicker to swap out an SD card in the middle of a shoot than wait for a wifi transfer then clear the memory to make room for more photos. The same goes for video.

Wifi transfer is for amateurs who are not on a time based shoot or doing a wedding shoot etc.

Musicians also use SD cards depending on what you do. Many sampling machines etc use them. Many pro keyboards also use them.

I do wish when apple drop something, apple fans would stop claiming people never used them nor does anyone need them. I welcome new tech and new ways of doing things, but ease into it. Don't drop absolutely everything the vast majority still use and adopt something that is in little use right now. Support both. I use a macbook pro 2015 and i use legacy USB, card reader and displayport a lot, and I don't fancy forking out more money for countless dongles on top of a laptop that's almost doubled in price to add functionality i already had.

Add to this the idiotic dropping of the magsafe! What lunatic decided that was a good idea?
Although I sort of agree with you, there is always a cost of change.

You will have a decision to make at some point because everyone is going over to USB C. What will you do if you need to buy an external hard drive in 3 months time?
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Old 02-12-2016, 06:58
IvanIV
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In a year's time all those devices will be available as USB-C. It's compact, small, and reliable. They are just pushing, you could say, arrogantly, manufacturers to it now, and it's a PITA for the users in this transition period.
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Old 02-12-2016, 08:22
psionic
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There's no doubt USB-C is the way forward. It delivers so much bandwidth and allows for far thinner designs. Total PITA at the moment - until it becomes far more common. Got caught out the other day trying to restore data from an external HDD onto an new machine but managed to find a very basic adaptor in the shops easily for £13.

At least it is a proper industry agreed standard, but until it's more universal - there's going to be lots of adaptor/hub sales.
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Old 02-12-2016, 15:26
ibatten
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I don't remember claiming everyone....

Don't drop absolutely everything the vast majority still use and adopt something that is in little use right now.
That's word for word the debate about there not being a floppy drive on the original iMac, and pretty much word for word the whole debate about RS232 ports.

"Vast Majority" is wildly overstating it from where I'm sat, but maybe I'm wrong. Luckily, there's a vast array of computing hardware on sale (although, as it happens, not a lot of it has SD slots) and if the SD slot is the deal breaker for you, then you'll buy some of that hardware or stay where you are. I'm sure Apple will listen if their sales drop. Having handled a new Pro yesterday (I hadn't, for a start off, realised the 13" is substantially smaller than a 13" Air) I can see how constrained it is, and I suspect the space inside the enclosure for the card reader simply isn't available. Maybe that's a good trade-off, maybe it isn't. Sales will show.
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Old 02-12-2016, 19:52
tdenson
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That's word for word the debate about there not being a floppy drive on the original iMac, and pretty much word for word the whole debate about RS232 ports.

"Vast Majority" is wildly overstating it from where I'm sat, but maybe I'm wrong. Luckily, there's a vast array of computing hardware on sale (although, as it happens, not a lot of it has SD slots) and if the SD slot is the deal breaker for you, then you'll buy some of that hardware or stay where you are. I'm sure Apple will listen if their sales drop. Having handled a new Pro yesterday (I hadn't, for a start off, realised the 13" is substantially smaller than a 13" Air) I can see how constrained it is, and I suspect the space inside the enclosure for the card reader simply isn't available. Maybe that's a good trade-off, maybe it isn't. Sales will show.
As it happens, I use SD cards myself quite a bit as I do a lot of work with Raspberry Pis. However, the USB-C hub I use has SD card built in as well as everything else. Therefore it makes no difference to me whether the SD card is built in to the Mac or not, I still only have the one connector to plug in.
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Old 02-12-2016, 22:24
steveOooo
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95%? Are you sure about that?!!

It's a pro machine designed for pro users apparently. Those pro users will indeed be using the card reader. Photographers, video content makers etc etc.

So i think you are way off the mark here.
I actually prefer to transfer footage using usb from cam to computer- removing /inserting sd cards all the time leaves covers open which might lead to dirt / sand on the contacts and worn out ad card contacts.

Just need to remember to bring a dongle or 5 if out and about on a shoot
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Old 03-12-2016, 02:01
Stiggles
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I actually prefer to transfer footage using usb from cam to computer- removing /inserting sd cards all the time leaves covers open which might lead to dirt / sand on the contacts and worn out ad card contacts.

Just need to remember to bring a dongle or 5 if out and about on a shoot
Like most amateurs do, yes.

Pro users will never do that. Far to time consuming.
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Old 03-12-2016, 02:07
Stiggles
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As it happens, I use SD cards myself quite a bit as I do a lot of work with Raspberry Pis. However, the USB-C hub I use has SD card built in as well as everything else. Therefore it makes no difference to me whether the SD card is built in to the Mac or not, I still only have the one connector to plug in.
My gripe, and many others for that matter, is the laptop itself has nearly doubled in price for nothing extra, instead, things taken away! For a decent hub like this (which is a splendid design) http://www.satechi.net/index.php/com...h-usb-hub-gold is another £40 to add the functionality that's been prematurely removed.

Off topic, i myself just started dabbling with Raspberry pi's the other day. Fascinating wee things!
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Old 03-12-2016, 02:13
Stiggles
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Although I sort of agree with you, there is always a cost of change.
Of course.

You will have a decision to make at some point because everyone is going over to USB C. What will you do if you need to buy an external hard drive in 3 months time?
If i was to buy another drive, indeed it would be a USB-C drive. However, i shouldnt have to buy another right now to go with this new macbook when it functions perfectly fine.

Everything is going the USB-C way. However, right now as it stands, there is still more legacy USB devices sold than USB-C. If this was late next year when the reverse was true, i would probably have agreed with apple to remove the ports but not the SD slot. But at this early stage i feel was a mistake.

They could have kept at least 1!
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Old 03-12-2016, 04:41
kidspud
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Of course.



If i was to buy another drive, indeed it would be a USB-C drive. However, i shouldnt have to buy another right now to go with this new macbook when it functions perfectly fine.

Everything is going the USB-C way. However, right now as it stands, there is still more legacy USB devices sold than USB-C. If this was late next year when the reverse was true, i would probably have agreed with apple to remove the ports but not the SD slot. But at this early stage i feel was a mistake.

They could have kept at least 1!
It isn't early, the standard has been out over a year and the only way it will be taken up is if device suppliers move you in that direction.

If you keep 1 old USB connection it means people keep using it and a new standard is too slow to take off.
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Old 03-12-2016, 08:53
tdenson
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My gripe, and many others for that matter, is the laptop itself has nearly doubled in price for nothing extra, instead, things taken away! For a decent hub like this (which is a splendid design) http://www.satechi.net/index.php/com...h-usb-hub-gold is another £40 to add the functionality that's been prematurely removed.

Off topic, i myself just started dabbling with Raspberry pi's the other day. Fascinating wee things!
I don't disagree they are expensive, but I must say I really like the new 15" one I have, particularly for its thinness and lightness. As a tool of the trade I'm prepared to spend my (company) money on it. I think my only point I was making was that the one issue I thought would be a major downside for me has turned into a plus i.e. I only have one thing to plug in now when I move it around.
And yes there are equally good Windows laptops around at 2/3 the price but I'm afraid I am too much of a MacOS fan to even consider Windows - and I am very familiar with Windows, I support about 50 W10 installations on a project in Kenya - which is also where I use the Raspberry Pi. It makes a great network monitoring device.
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Old 03-12-2016, 15:54
DRAGON LANCE
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Well whilst its great to see the Gentleman that started this thread really loves his new MacBook Pro the rest of the world seems less impressed.

Already people reporting major issues with the AMD graphics card:
http://www.macrumors.com/2016/12/02/...aphics-issues/

Its suspected this is due to them making the machine too slim and it is overheating.

And blown speakers too:
http://www.macrumors.com/2016/12/01/...speaker-issue/

Those issues just go to show that you are paying that extra money for a real quality product that Apple have tested it properly before releasing it .

To sum up:

Even by Apple standards its comically overpriced. Seriously the price for the frankly very modest spec (you can have a Windows laptop with the same for less than half the price). Just beyond a total joke.

Macbook "pro" used to mean its suitable for using pro applications that need more power. Pro's actually need 32 gig+ of RAM. Pro's actually need internal hard drives that have more than 128GB to 512GB on them. Face it- this machine is just for posing down Starbucks.

Somebody who is trashing the guy who quite fairly questions why no SD card ports because the likes of musicians wont be bothered. I will tell you now musicians community hate this machine. Many of them relied on Apple as music software often runs more sweetly on Macs than WIndows.

Apple have taken so many ports and features off the machine that its becoming increasingly useless to pro musicians. Here's a quote from Eric Persing of Spectrasonics software (a pro audio firm) on the decision to remove optical out from the headphone jack:

"APPLE HAS COMPLETELY LOST IT. I am absolutely FURIOUS about this news! This is literally a feature that our entire team at Spectrasonics utilizes EVERY DAY, dozens of times a day! The removal of optical out is INSANE! In our world of audio, this is a feature that made MacBook Pros truly a mobile/professional audio machine! Native core audio with simple digital audio output is one of the essential reasons that these laptops have always been the best for audio and music. NOW THEY'VE TAKEN IT AWAY SO THEY SAVE A PENNY! I hate you apple! (Never thought I'd every say that)"
I think what it all comes back to with Apple is that they realised "pro" users are a niche. They aren't really worth much in terms of ££$£$£$ in the grand scheme of things. Their best selling products now are iPhones and iPads that don't last long and have crippled connectivity so you have to keep buying new dongles to get your old gear to work.

They are clearly turning their whole range over to the iPad way of thinking. The MacBook Pro is slowly turning into an iPad with a keyboard. Hey maybe they can get rid of the keyboard next- that would be "innovative" and they can charge us another £300 more for the privilege of doing so couldn't they?
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Old 03-12-2016, 16:04
tremol
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There will always be complaint when Apple drops a particular port, or support for a particular technology or moves in a direction the tech press or the consumer base does not like. Sometimes they do it for the right reasons, sometimes for the wrong. Sometimes its better for the industry as a whole, sometimes its purely for the commercial betterment of themselves.

Apple dropped the floppy drive, Apple dropped the parallel port, Apple supported USB instead of PCMCIA. Apple dropped the integral CD/DVD. And what happened, every other manufacturer ultimately followed suit.

You can hark back to days old, to the connections of yesteryear, but we would all be carting around 2.5 inch 7 kilo dells today if that is what everyone wanted.

You can pick and choose which argument suits you, based upon your requirements yesterday, today or tomorrow. Some I would argue base their opinion on which side of the bed they got out that particular morning or which way the wind happens to be blowing.

Does it annoy me I had to buy a £9 usb-c to usb adaptor when earlier this week I charged £2500 to my card for a macbook pro? Absolutely yes, and I told the sales assistant this. I said this basic adaptor should be included in the box. I must have put myself across as not a complete a-hole as the very next day I received an email saying they were not only refunding the £9 usb-c adaptor, but I could have any of their other adaptors, should I require them, at the same price point. These small things matter.

Hanging out of this new Macbook Pro I have 2 cables; the power, and a small hub unit powering an Elgato EyeTV, 3 usb HD units and an Acer 2560 x 1440 display ( which was a real pain to calibrate, but another story ).

Do Apple annoy me, Yes. Are Apple products expensive : Yes. Do Apple drive the industry forward : Yes. Do I want to carry a 2.5 inch laptop with every conceivable port : No.

Is USB-C a future proof connection technology, only time will tell, but, it is legacy compatible, royalty free and has the backing of just about every tech company in the world.
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Old 04-12-2016, 12:08
Lushness
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And on the flip side I have a MacBook with only the one USB C port, works fine for me I have never needed to buy an adaptor.

Was tempted to buy the new pro but there are a bit too many issues. If I'm throwing down that much on a new laptop the battery better last ten hours.
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Old 04-12-2016, 15:50
zz9
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It isn't early, the standard has been out over a year and the only way it will be taken up is if device suppliers move you in that direction.

If you keep 1 old USB connection it means people keep using it and a new standard is too slow to take off.
If people are happy with an old standard and stick with it unless they are "forced" to change then maybe the old standard is fine and the new standard clearly doesn't offer any worthwhile improvement?

Floppy drives being the standard didn't stop CD ROM taking off, because CD ROM was a huge increase in capacity and speed. LPs being the standard didn't stop CDs taking off. VHS didn't stop DVDs taking off.

If USB-C is good enough it will take off no matter what connections you have on your computer. If it doesn't take off because lots of people still have USB then it clearly doesn't offer enough advantage to most people.
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Old 04-12-2016, 16:00
zz9
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Apple dropped the floppy drive, Apple dropped the parallel port, Apple supported USB instead of PCMCIA. Apple dropped the integral CD/DVD. And what happened, every other manufacturer ultimately followed suit.
Correlation is not causation. Every other manufacturer would have dropped CD ROM, 3.5 inch floppy etc eventually, whether Apple did or not. The huge increase in performance and features of USB sticks, SD cards, wifi and cloud storage etc would have made that inevitable.

But there is a difference between reacting to user demand and dropping a feature millions of people still choose to use every day.
I have a wafer thin 10 inch Windows 10 tablet that still manages to give me two full size USB, one micro USB, a micro HDMI and a micro SD card slot. As and when I upgrade my stuff I may choose to upgrade to USB-C. But why should I be forced to upgrade now, or have to carry a bunch of dongles?
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Old 04-12-2016, 16:06
srpsrp
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I like having lots of ports, my 2011 MBP has an ethernet port, how cool is that !
Oh and you can upgrade the disk/memory, put an SSD in place of the optical drive and there is even an escape key.
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Old 04-12-2016, 16:18
kidspud
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If people are happy with an old standard and stick with it unless they are "forced" to change then maybe the old standard is fine and the new standard clearly doesn't offer any worthwhile improvement?

Floppy drives being the standard didn't stop CD ROM taking off, because CD ROM was a huge increase in capacity and speed. LPs being the standard didn't stop CDs taking off. VHS didn't stop DVDs taking off.

If USB-C is good enough it will take off no matter what connections you have on your computer. If it doesn't take off because lots of people still have USB then it clearly doesn't offer enough advantage to most people.
Well I'm sure those that want to stick with old standards will still have a choice for a while to come so no one is being forced.

Some manufacturers choose to lead change for the better, others choose to follow.
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Old 04-12-2016, 18:24
Stiggles
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Well I'm sure those that want to stick with old standards will still have a choice for a while to come so no one is being forced.

Some manufacturers choose to lead change for the better, others choose to follow.
Not if you buy a macbook you won't be ok for a while!!

Is it changing for the better though? Changing everything before a standard is adopted properly isnt better. Other manufactures have been including USB-C sockets in laptops and desktops for a long time now alongside other USB ports. Apple again could have kept one and the card reader. Oh and maybe magsafe as well....Getting rid of everything in one swoop was foolish. Even the damn light up apple logo has gone!

I dont ever think this was about changing standards. It was about making the things thinner and thinner removing any space needed for ports.
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Old 04-12-2016, 18:28
Stiggles
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I don't disagree they are expensive, but I must say I really like the new 15" one I have, particularly for its thinness and lightness. As a tool of the trade I'm prepared to spend my (company) money on it. I think my only point I was making was that the one issue I thought would be a major downside for me has turned into a plus i.e. I only have one thing to plug in now when I move it around.
And yes there are equally good Windows laptops around at 2/3 the price but I'm afraid I am too much of a MacOS fan to even consider Windows - and I am very familiar with Windows, I support about 50 W10 installations on a project in Kenya - which is also where I use the Raspberry Pi. It makes a great network monitoring device.
Yeah but lets face it, its not really much thinner and lighter than the one before is it? Not by a huge margin thats noticable anyway.
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