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New MacBook Pro with USB-C dongle hell (or not ?)


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Old 04-12-2016, 18:35
kidspud
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Not if you buy a macbook you won't be ok for a while!!

Is it changing for the better though? Changing everything before a standard is adopted properly isnt better. Other manufactures have been including USB-C sockets in laptops and desktops for a long time now alongside other USB ports. Apple again could have kept one and the card reader. Oh and maybe magsafe as well....Getting rid of everything in one swoop was foolish. Even the damn light up apple logo has gone!

I dont ever think this was about changing standards. It was about making the things thinner and thinner removing any space needed for ports.
What do you mean 'adopted property'?

It is well established and older devices can still be used with a hub.

And if other manufacturers provide both options then there is no issue at all, go buy one of them.
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Old 04-12-2016, 20:11
ibatten
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Getting rid of everything in one swoop was foolish. Even the damn light up apple logo has gone!

I dont ever think this was about changing standards. It was about making the things thinner and thinner removing any space needed for ports.

The nice thing about markets is that they offer choice. Don't like the new Mac? Don't buy one. Plenty of alternatives on the market, including second-hand Macs and spending the money on good meals instead. Unless you're an Apple shareholder worried about the stock price, what else is there to say?
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Old 04-12-2016, 20:31
Maxatoria
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Its obvious why apple took usb-c as the only thing, probably one chip can control 4 ports thus reducing the complexity on the design of the logic board, this will lead to smaller logic board thus allowing more room for batteries to be able to tell us that it'll now last till the 14th coming of christ.

The less chips and design effort will reduce cost making it actually cheaper to make while doubling its cost to the consumer and with a nice market in dongles its a double winner.

Yep USB-C may be the perfect solution to pretty much everything but i'm sure it won't be long before USB 4.0 or USB-D appear and we'll start this all over again
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Old 05-12-2016, 00:23
tdenson
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Yeah but lets face it, its not really much thinner and lighter than the one before is it? Not by a huge margin thats noticable anyway.
I think it actually is noticeable. Something that hasn't been mentioned much is that as well as being thinner it also has a smaller footprint due to smaller bezels. Also, even just half a pound off seems to make it quite a bit easier to pickup by one end with one hand. It slops around in the slip case that I had my previous 15" MBP in.

Incidentally, having used it now for a week I must confess that I think the touch bar is a gimmick, I'm not sure I'm going to make intensive use of it. If budget is an issue I wouldn't recommend to people buying the touch bar version.
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Old 06-12-2016, 01:02
Fried Kickin
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Slightly off topic but as it relates to the MacBook Pro with touchbar ... Battery Life = 3 hrs not the advertised 10hrs
http://www.zdnet.com/article/new-mac...attery-issues/
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Old 06-12-2016, 11:10
tdenson
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Slightly off topic but as it relates to the MacBook Pro with touchbar ... Battery Life = 3 hrs not the advertised 10hrs
http://www.zdnet.com/article/new-mac...attery-issues/
Yes, I must say that so far I have not been too impressed with battery life, but am giving it the benefit of the doubt a while to do a few battery cycles and also to let Spotlight finish doing its indexing stuff.
However, the saving grace and another big advantage of going USB-C is that I can now charge my laptop from a regular USB power bank. I have just ordered a particularly powerful one specifically for this purpose.
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Old 07-12-2016, 19:27
Lushness
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I think it actually is noticeable. Something that hasn't been mentioned much is that as well as being thinner it also has a smaller footprint due to smaller bezels. Also, even just half a pound off seems to make it quite a bit easier to pickup by one end with one hand. It slops around in the slip case that I had my previous 15" MBP in.

Incidentally, having used it now for a week I must confess that I think the touch bar is a gimmick, I'm not sure I'm going to make intensive use of it. If budget is an issue I wouldn't recommend to people buying the touch bar version.
Incredibly gimmicky; I like Apple but that touch bar thing is just nonsense.

Slightly off topic but as it relates to the MacBook Pro with touchbar ... Battery Life = 3 hrs not the advertised 10hrs
http://www.zdnet.com/article/new-mac...attery-issues/
Although if one was being pedantic Apple say "Up to 10 hours" so I guess they aren't really lying!

Seriously though, I'd be fuming to spend that much only to have the thing not even last till lunch time. My MacBook lasts the whole working day and then some. I have no need to carry chargers around and I wouldn't buy laptop that wasn't capable of the same.
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Old 08-12-2016, 00:06
Dark 1
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Another slightly off-topic gripe: What I find most irritating about these new MBPs is the removal of MagSafe. Genuinely a brilliant and useful thing. And now it's gone. I know for certain if I didn't have it on my MBP, it wouldn't still be alive and kicking today.

What surprises me is that Apple, with all their supposed engineering prowess, couldn't have found a way to include some sort of magnetic connector into a USB type C power cable. I mean, how hard could it be? (Jeremy Clarkson™)

I know there's that Griffin thing that has it, but that sticks out about a foot (exaggeration for comic effect), so that's not really a viable option.

Dreading the day my 2012 MBP doesn't work anymore.
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Old 08-12-2016, 18:31
tdenson
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Another slightly off-topic gripe: What I find most irritating about these new MBPs is the removal of MagSafe. Genuinely a brilliant and useful thing. And now it's gone. I know for certain if I didn't have it on my MBP, it wouldn't still be alive and kicking today.

What surprises me is that Apple, with all their supposed engineering prowess, couldn't have found a way to include some sort of magnetic connector into a USB type C power cable. I mean, how hard could it be? (Jeremy Clarkson™)

I know there's that Griffin thing that has it, but that sticks out about a foot (exaggeration for comic effect), so that's not really a viable option.

Dreading the day my 2012 MBP doesn't work anymore.
I agree, I will sorely miss the magsafe. However, the benefits that USB-C give me in being able to charge from a battery pack outweighs it in my opinion.
As far as making a USB-C cable with a magsafe in it, I think there would be engineering challenges. Because the computer end is not fixed but connected to a flexible cable, I could see that the line of least resistance in such a setup would probably still drag the laptop to the floor.
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Old 09-12-2016, 14:54
Loobster
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That comment absolutely displays your prejudice against Apple. Do you not know that USB-C is an industry standard, and therefore you can buy any number of adaptors from any number of 3rd parties. Apple will not make significant money (in proportion to other revenue) from dongles.
Err ... whut?

Most of these apple dongles are $30-50. And likely cost about $2-4 to make. You don't think they will make "significant money" from that? I guess since all apple stuff is massively overpriced, though, I guess your "in proportion to other revenue" comment could be close to the truth.

Apple didn't get to be the richest company in the world by underpricing their stuff ....
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Old 09-12-2016, 21:18
tdenson
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Err ... whut?

Most of these apple dongles are $30-50. And likely cost about $2-4 to make. You don't think they will make "significant money" from that? I guess since all apple stuff is massively overpriced, though, I guess your "in proportion to other revenue" comment could be close to the truth.

Apple didn't get to be the richest company in the world by underpricing their stuff ....
Err .... You misunderstand.

The whole point I was making is that because these cables are now an industry standard Apple do not have a monopoly and therefore cannot charge an unreasonable amount - or if they do, people will vote with their wallet. As evidenced by the fact that at the moment you can buy a USB-C cable cheaper from the Apple website than Amazon (e.g. a USB-C to USBA dongle is £9). Now I know that is a temporary measure but their days of overpriced dongles are over, or rather people would be mad to buy them at inflated prices as they are not proprietary any more.
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Old 13-12-2016, 05:49
Gilbertoo
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Err .... You misunderstand.

The whole point I was making is that because these cables are now an industry standard Apple do not have a monopoly and therefore cannot charge an unreasonable amount - or if they do, people will vote with their wallet. As evidenced by the fact that at the moment you can buy a USB-C cable cheaper from the Apple website than Amazon (e.g. a USB-C to USBA dongle is £9). Now I know that is a temporary measure but their days of overpriced dongles are over, or rather people would be mad to buy them at inflated prices as they are not proprietary any more.
MBP tends to be industry standard in both the music and photography world, but USB-C certainly isn't!

I'm a DJ and a photographer - the new MBP is shite for both now. That may change in the future but right now, Apple have lost sight of what their customers want and enjoy.

Oh and if USB-C was industry standard, why in the hell will so many dongles/converters/readers/etc. now be needed to connect stuff?!
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Old 13-12-2016, 08:56
Stiggles
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Err .... You misunderstand.

The whole point I was making is that because these cables are now an industry standard Apple do not have a monopoly and therefore cannot charge an unreasonable amount - or if they do, people will vote with their wallet. As evidenced by the fact that at the moment you can buy a USB-C cable cheaper from the Apple website than Amazon (e.g. a USB-C to USBA dongle is £9). Now I know that is a temporary measure but their days of overpriced dongles are over, or rather people would be mad to buy them at inflated prices as they are not proprietary any more.
They may be industry standard to a point, but the take up is very slow indeed. This is why apple have been foolish to do what they have done. They don't have a monopoly, no, but they do in fact inflate the price of dongles hugely and always have done. So they do make a shit ton of money from them.

Apple only dropped the prices of the dongles as they had to due to pressure from customers after they launched the daft thing.
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Old 13-12-2016, 12:32
tdenson
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MBP tends to be industry standard in both the music and photography world, but USB-C certainly isn't!

I'm a DJ and a photographer - the new MBP is shite for both now. That may change in the future but right now, Apple have lost sight of what their customers want and enjoy.

Oh and if USB-C was industry standard, why in the hell will so many dongles/converters/readers/etc. now be needed to connect stuff?!
You still misunderstand. Let me rephrase what I am saying. USB-C is NOT an Apple proprietary technology. Therefore you can buy adapters from 3rd parties with none of the FUD that Apple create around other companies copying their proprietary ones. It is not in common use at the moment I agree, but it still means that perfectly legitimate cables are available from other than Apple. That is all I am saying.
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Old 13-12-2016, 12:44
tdenson
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They may be industry standard to a point, but the take up is very slow indeed. This is why apple have been foolish to do what they have done. They don't have a monopoly, no, but they do in fact inflate the price of dongles hugely and always have done. So they do make a shit ton of money from them.

Apple only dropped the prices of the dongles as they had to due to pressure from customers after they launched the daft thing.
Whether Apple have been commercially foolish with this move, only time will tell. However, in my opinion they have done a massive service to the industry in general. This will inevitably help accelerate the uptake of USB-C across the board. Personally, I wish they had had the guts to do it on the iPhone 7 as well, but that probably would have been a bridge too far commercially.
Now that I have been using USB-C for a few weeks I am seeing really good benefits. I've already mentioned multi port adapter stuff, but something else that happened to me only yesterday was that I left my Apple MBP charger behind on a trip, but I just happened to have a USB-C to USB-A cable with me. Just plugged into into a USB charger, no problem. OK I might not have had the cable, but in a couple of years time I will be able to pop into a local Tesco or whatever and pick one up for a couple of quid.
And yes, I am currently drowning in all varieties of USB-C adapters and dongles (partly because I am experimenting with different ways of doing things) but as an habitual early adopter that is par for the course
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Old 13-12-2016, 14:40
Gilbertoo
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You still misunderstand. Let me rephrase what I am saying. USB-C is NOT an Apple proprietary technology. Therefore you can buy adapters from 3rd parties with none of the FUD that Apple create around other companies copying their proprietary ones. It is not in common use at the moment I agree, but it still means that perfectly legitimate cables are available from other than Apple. That is all I am saying.
I don't misunderstand at all. Firstly, I never said that USB-C is an Apple product. They do stand to profit from people wishing to purchase Apple branded dongles/adaptors/readers, though.

Secondly, if USB-C was industry standard, why is there such a big requirement for people to buy said dongles/adaptors/readers? By stating that something is "industry standard", it heavily infers that the absolute majority of people/industries use said product. In the case of USB-C, the minority of people use it....so before it can be considered "industry standard", more people than not will be connecting devices without the need for extra peripherals/connectors to lug about.

I get that technology moves on and usually for good reason, but it seems that it's moving quicker than it actually needs to. I mean, for me to even consider updating my mid-2012 MBP, I'd need to get new dongles/cables and a memory card reader.....and for why? There doesn't seem to be any pressing need to suddenly change from MBPs with zero USB-C ports and one memory card reader to MBPs with only USB-C ports and zero memory card reader.
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Old 13-12-2016, 17:02
tdenson
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Secondly, if USB-C was industry standard, why is there such a big requirement for people to buy said dongles/adaptors/readers? By stating that something is "industry standard", it heavily infers that the absolute majority of people/industries use said product. In the case of USB-C, the minority of people use it....so before it can be considered "industry standard", more people than not will be connecting devices without the need for extra peripherals/connectors to lug about.
Perhaps I should have used the term non-proprietary instead, but we all know it will become industry standard.
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Old 13-12-2016, 17:47
Gilbertoo
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Perhaps I should have used the term non-proprietary instead, but we all know it will become industry standard.
But not for some time. There are far too many things which require dongles that I can't see a massive stampede for laptops/PCs which only have USB-C sockets.

What are your thoughts on the rest of my post:

I get that technology moves on and usually for good reason, but it seems that it's moving quicker than it actually needs to. I mean, for me to even consider updating my mid-2012 MBP, I'd need to get new dongles/cables and a memory card reader.....and for why? There doesn't seem to be any pressing need to suddenly change from MBPs with zero USB-C ports and one memory card reader to MBPs with only USB-C ports and zero memory card reader.
Don't you think it's a very strange move to completely move away from USB2/3 sockets and memory card readers?
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Old 13-12-2016, 20:02
tdenson
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But not for some time. There are far too many things which require dongles that I can't see a massive stampede for laptops/PCs which only have USB-C sockets.

What are your thoughts on the rest of my post:



Don't you think it's a very strange move to completely move away from USB2/3 sockets and memory card readers?
Actually, if you hold a USB-A plug against the side of the new MBP it is exactly the same thickness - in other words it is physically impossible to fit a socket anyway. Now you may disagree with Apple's mantra of as thin as possible but that is what they have chosen to do. Personally, as a power user, I would have preferred to sacrifice thickness for some legacy ports - I have cursed the lack of ethernet for years. On balance though, I think they have done the right thing - if USB-C is accelerated then the change-over pain period will be shorter.
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Old 13-12-2016, 21:37
TelevisionUser
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Not if you buy a macbook you won't be ok for a while!!

Is it changing for the better though? Changing everything before a standard is adopted properly isnt better. Other manufactures have been including USB-C sockets in laptops and desktops for a long time now alongside other USB ports. Apple again could have kept one and the card reader. Oh and maybe magsafe as well....Getting rid of everything in one swoop was foolish. Even the damn light up apple logo has gone!

I dont ever think this was about changing standards. It was about making the things thinner and thinner removing any space needed for ports.
I do have significant misgivings over the way Apple are proceeding. While the 2016 Macbook Pro is thinner and more elegant than the 2015 model, I regard it as much less practical because of the way that the variety of connection ports has been significantly reduced.

Macbook Pros should be for doing serious work on and they shouldn't be just for exhibits in a design museum. I think that Tim Cook is seriously losing the plot here.

Link: http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/1393...the-difference
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Old 13-12-2016, 21:46
tdenson
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I regard it as much less practical because of the way that the variety of connection ports has been significantly reduced.
Depends how you define practical. As I have said earlier, if you are prepared to invest in a hub which contains all the required ports, then it is actually more practical because all you have to do is plug/unplug one cable when moving from one's desk with the laptop.
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Old 13-12-2016, 22:06
Maxatoria
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Depends how you define practical. As I have said earlier, if you are prepared to invest in a hub which contains all the required ports, then it is actually more practical because all you have to do is plug/unplug one cable when moving from one's desk with the laptop.
Perhaps 2 free connectors from the apple store when you spend 2.5k+ on a machine of your own free choice wouldn't really go a miss and if you need more then lets see the poor credit card strain a bit more.
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Old 14-12-2016, 10:25
Gilbertoo
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Actually, if you hold a USB-A plug against the side of the new MBP it is exactly the same thickness - in other words it is physically impossible to fit a socket anyway. Now you may disagree with Apple's mantra of as thin as possible but that is what they have chosen to do. Personally, as a power user, I would have preferred to sacrifice thickness for some legacy ports - I have cursed the lack of ethernet for years. On balance though, I think they have done the right thing - if USB-C is accelerated then the change-over pain period will be shorter.
I think Apple are seriously alienating their customers. They don't need to produce yet another thinner MBP. They have the Macbook Air for that.

The iPhone 7 is thicker than the iPhone 6 - Apple clearly aren't all about making things thinner, yet why the need to make their MBP thinner? Was there actually significant issues with the size of the previous versions? I don't think there was. People want power. People want connectivity. People want their MBP to deliver. If people only want their MBP to look good and be thinner.....then sadly, they're not really buying it for the right reasons.

Have you seen any device which connects to a PC or laptop USB-C to USB-C? Other than my phone, I've yet to see any other type of device which uses a USB-C port. To me, USB-C is FAR from being industry standard. Apple are just trying to force something through which isn't needed yet.
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Old 16-12-2016, 16:57
tdenson
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I think Apple are seriously alienating their customers. They don't need to produce yet another thinner MBP. They have the Macbook Air for that.

The iPhone 7 is thicker than the iPhone 6 - Apple clearly aren't all about making things thinner, yet why the need to make their MBP thinner? Was there actually significant issues with the size of the previous versions? I don't think there was. People want power. People want connectivity. People want their MBP to deliver. If people only want their MBP to look good and be thinner.....then sadly, they're not really buying it for the right reasons.

Have you seen any device which connects to a PC or laptop USB-C to USB-C? Other than my phone, I've yet to see any other type of device which uses a USB-C port. To me, USB-C is FAR from being industry standard. Apple are just trying to force something through which isn't needed yet.
I also disagree with Apple's "thinner is better" policy - that's why I referred to it as a mantra earlier. I would happily have gone another 2mm thicker to get a decent keyboard and extra battery. So I'm not really disagreeing with you on that one.
However, I do think they are doing the right thing with USB-C. All the same flak was thrown at Apple when they removed the floppy, the DVD drive, introduced USB etc. etc.
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Old 16-12-2016, 19:18
TelevisionUser
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I also disagree with Apple's "thinner is better" policy - that's why I referred to it as a mantra earlier. I would happily have gone another 2mm thicker to get a decent keyboard and extra battery. So I'm not really disagreeing with you on that one.
However, I do think they are doing the right thing with USB-C. All the same flak was thrown at Apple when they removed the floppy, the DVD drive, introduced USB etc. etc.
This thinness aspect is unwarranted because they've already got the Macbook Air. I wish that Apple had used that device to introduce the new innovations like touch bar and had left the Macbook Pro as a working macOS laptop with the function keys intact As well as the variety of ports intact too).
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