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Networks Cancelling shows mid season is the HEIGHT of disrespect


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Old 29-11-2016, 08:50
Damon_Plembury
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Is there any point in the US putting out television shows?

Giving a series less that 3 seasons to prove itself and bed down a fanbase is ludicrous.

Cancelling mid season because people aren't happy with viewing figures. Ludicrous.

It's the height of disrespect to actors, writers, crew and more importantly the fans. How do you expect them to engage with a series if you're their ready to pull the plug at any time. There is literally no point in watching US shows.

It's now become a joke
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Old 29-11-2016, 08:58
little-monster
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But why should they continue to waste money on something that isn't doing well. Are you telling me that as a television network, you are going to continue to put money into something that isn't actually giving you anything back in return.

Plus this is how it has always been. People who go into this business know this. It isn't disrespectful.
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Old 29-11-2016, 09:03
Damon_Plembury
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But why should they continue to waste money on something that isn't doing well. Are you telling me that as a television network, you are going to continue to put money into something that isn't actually giving you anything back in return.

Plus this is how it has always been. People who go into this business know this. It isn't disrespectful.
You're crazy

It works in the UK fine

Networks here wouldn't dream of cutting a show mid season.

They would give it a season or two and then decide to cancel. And even then they would have the curtesy to wrap it up for the audience.

Pulling the plug without thought for the people involved and the audience it's despicable.

It's why US TV is suffering so badly. No one is willing to invest in something they know will be taken away from them
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Old 29-11-2016, 09:09
little-monster
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You're crazy

It works in the UK fine

Networks here wouldn't dream of cutting a show mid season.

They would give it a season or two and then decide to cancel. And even then they would have the curtesy to wrap it up for the audience.

Pulling the plug without thought for the people involved and the audience it's despicable.

It's why US TV is suffering so badly. No one is willing to invest in something they know will be taken away from them
Nice
and because of that i am not wasting my time with someone who isn't willing to have a polite and adult conversation without listening to different sides and dismissing other people's posts.
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Old 29-11-2016, 09:22
Damon_Plembury
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Nice
and because of that i am not wasting my time with someone who isn't willing to have a polite and adult conversation without listening to different sides and dismissing other people's posts.
It's a figure of speech

I wasn't actually calling you crazy

I'm willing to debate. But so far you've offered me nothing that suggests otherwise

I cannot agree with your point
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Old 29-11-2016, 10:38
Hamlet77
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Welcome to the real world.

We do not live in a world of unicorns and rainbows, USTV is a phenomally cut throat business, and if something is not doing well a network will get rid of it, for any number of reasons. And please do not be so delusional (sorry) as to think what a small number of viewers think actually matter. If the advertisers aren't happy then it gets cut off at the knees.

You may think is disrespectful to those working in the industry, these people work in that industry and know for every Law and Order, Greys Anatomy or NCIS, there are literally dozens like Forever, Conviction, Notorious and countless others, mostly these people know it comes the territory and move on, if they can't they stop working in the industry.

The big question I am asking myself is which show is the OP do in love with that they feel the need to start this thread? And try and pass off their temper tantrum as some sort of show of solidarity with those put upon workers.

Big Hayley Attwell fan? Well she is two for two now in the didn't make it to season 3 column.
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Old 29-11-2016, 10:43
The_don1
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Not sure what how U.K works has to do with anything.

They are two very different countries.

The system works very well, Yes its a shame when a show we like gets pulled mid-season but its a very demanding market and always has been
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Old 29-11-2016, 10:45
Damon_Plembury
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Welcome to the real world.

We do not live in a world of unicorns and rainbows, USTV is a phenomally cut throat business, and if something is not doing well a network will get rid of it, for any number of reasons. And please do not be so delusional (sorry) as to think what a small number of viewers think actually matter. If the advertisers aren't happy then it gets cut off at the knees.

You may think is disrespectful to those working in the industry, these people work in that industry and know for every Law and Order, Greys Anatomy or NCIS, there are literally dozens like Forever, Conviction, Notorious and countless others, mostly these people know it comes the territory and move on, if they can't they stop working in the industry.

The big question I am asking myself is which show is the OP do in love with that they feel the need to start this thread? And try and pass off their temper tantrum as some sort of show of solidarity with those put upon workers.

Big Hayley Attwell fan? Well she is two for two now in the didn't make it to season 3 column.
Hi angry, aggressive much

Just because 'thats the way it is' doesn't make it right

Morally and ethically it is wrong. Big Business and corporation have destroyed every single corner of our society. Created income divides bigger than we've ever seen in human history

TV, Film, theatre, the arts in general should be about creativity, the want and need to tell stories.

Corporate interest should be nowhere near it. Its poisonous
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Old 29-11-2016, 11:03
The_don1
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Hi angry, aggressive much

Just because 'thats the way it is' doesn't make it right

Morally and ethically it is wrong. Big Business and corporation have destroyed every single corner of our society. Created income divides bigger than we've ever seen in human history

TV, Film, theatre, the arts in general should be about creativity, the want and need to tell stories.

Corporate interest should be nowhere near it. Its poisonous
Without corporate interests how do you suggest the bills are paid? For example Peter Dinklage is on 500k per episode how would you raise such money without big business and corporations?

Do you think they should go to work for the "love" of it.

Be you the on screen talent or a runner etc its your job its how you pay your bills every month and as you are judged at work but how well you do so it has to be the same when making a TV show.
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Old 29-11-2016, 11:31
MR_Pitkin
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You're crazy

It works in the UK fine

Networks here wouldn't dream of cutting a show mid season.

They would give it a season or two and then decide to cancel. And even then they would have the curtesy to wrap it up for the audience.

Pulling the plug without thought for the people involved and the audience it's despicable.

It's why US TV is suffering so badly. No one is willing to invest in something they know will be taken away from them
You sir, have no idea how TV commissioning works for network TV in the US and how this differs greatly to how shows are funded in the UK.

And as for the statement in bold, we're currently enjoying a golden age in US TV shows. Just look at how many TV shows are now regularly attracting movie stars.
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Old 29-11-2016, 11:49
JCR
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The advertisers are the US networks customers, the viewers are the product being sold.
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Old 29-11-2016, 12:25
Hamlet77
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Hi angry, aggressive much

Just because 'thats the way it is' doesn't make it right

Morally and ethically it is wrong. Big Business and corporation have destroyed every single corner of our society. Created income divides bigger than we've ever seen in human history

TV, Film, theatre, the arts in general should be about creativity, the want and need to tell stories.

Corporate interest should be nowhere near it. Its poisonous
Aggressive? Wow if you found my post aggressive you really do need to get out more.

I never said it was right, I never said it was morally correct.

It's called being realistic, it's called not having your head in the clouds. It's called not being so epically naive as to think big corporations can act in an altruistic fashion.

And your naivety is exposed again when you claim big business has destroyed every corner stone of our society, ignoring the benefits large corporations have done to improve society............

Hang on a mo, how did we get from Conviction being cancelled after 13 episodes to the breakdown of morality in society as a whole? If you want to talk about aggressive. How about the first being indicative of the second as an aggressive leap of logic. I think you want to ask yourself is the cancellation of any tv show in less than 3 seasons the biggest crime of large corporations. Honestly if you think that you need to look at your own priorities.
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Old 29-11-2016, 12:55
NoEntry2k
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I suspect you’re looking for an argument, but I’ll just respond with a few points..

It works in the UK fine
Networks here wouldn't dream of cutting a show mid season.
That’s because the US and UK commercial television models are different. In the UK we don’t have series/seasons of 20+ episodes a year, therefore in the UK it’s common place for the entire series/season (usually just 6 or 8 episodes) to be in the can before the first episode is broadcast. And that’s why UK shows aren’t cancelled mid series/season.

They would give it a season or two and then decide to cancel. And even then they would have the curtesy to wrap it up for the audience.
That is such a false statement I don’t know where to start. There have been hundreds of UK television programmes that have been cancelled after just one series/season, many of which with no ‘wrap up’ for the audience. There’s too many examples to list here, but if you don’t believe me let me know and I’ll give you just a few from recent years.

Pulling the plug without thought for the people involved and the audience it's despicable.
JCR summarised it extremely well in their above post - the advertisers are commercial television’s customers (in both the US and the UK), the viewers are the product being sold to the advertisers. You're looking at it as if the viewers are the customer.
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Old 29-11-2016, 13:00
gother
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You're crazy

It works in the UK fine

Networks here wouldn't dream of cutting a show mid season.

They would give it a season or two and then decide to cancel. And even then they would have the curtesy to wrap it up for the audience.

Pulling the plug without thought for the people involved and the audience it's despicable.

It's why US TV is suffering so badly. No one is willing to invest in something they know will be taken away from them
BIB The fades comes to mind was left on a cliffhanger and i'm sure there are more UK network shows that never wrappeed things up.
What i'd like to see from networks is if a show is cancelled then do one or two more episodes just to wrap things up, i now wait until a new show has been renewed or not left on a cliffhanger before i start to watch.
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Old 29-11-2016, 13:55
BelfastGuy125
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3 Seasons?!?!

I disagree with that huge length of time. 70% of TV shows are already scraping the barrel by 3 seasons. Frankly I think most shows go on too long. I do agree with allowing a show to survive and it should never be cancelled mid way through but frankly if it is still floundering after 2, it probably deserves the chop.
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Old 29-11-2016, 16:05
brianeccleston
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As has been pointed out US and UK is very different. UK are usually 6-8 episodes a season. The US is usually between 18-24 episodes a season. If we look at what has not officially been cancelled this season but lets face it is probably cancelled, its just the networks dont want to be the first to say something has been cancelled this year.

Conviction - 13 episodes - basically 2 season of uk tv
Notorious - 10 episodes - basically 1.5 seasons of uk tv
Pure Genius 13 episodes - basically 2 season of uk tv

They have been given time. They have been performing badly in the demo's so the networks are basically not making money on them. In Pure Genius case, CBS said they were not ordering any more episodes a couple of weeks ago. Yet they are still filming epsiodes that they ordered originally, as filming does not wrap up till mid December. They could have very easily trimmed the order and saved some money.
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Old 29-11-2016, 16:05
dave2702
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It's why US TV is suffering so badly. No one is willing to invest in something they know will be taken away from them
Who says US TV is suffering? From announcing the new schedules in early May they typically have sold every advertising slot by the end of June

The US is not UK TV, in the UK broadcasters commission 6 episodes in the US a series order is 22-24 episodes, typically ordered in batches of 9

In the upfronts the broadcasters promise the advertisers a certain level of audience and a certain demographic of that audience and sell the adverts based upon that. Thus if a show fails to deliver that promise the broadcasters have to actually refund the advertisers

So when a show is not doing well not only is it costing them to make the show but it's actually costing them to put on the show. If a car manufacturer was making a car that cost them money to produce should they continue to make it even though no-one was interested

Also don't forget in the US, the broadcasters do not own the many TV stations that are showing the show. When Channel 5 in Podunk claims to be NBC7 they really mean they have a licence to show 5 or 6 hours of NBC programming each day. These are Affiliated Stations as the Broadcaster doesn't own them

So the local station owners get a cut of the advertising revenue that a show produces, so once again if the show fails to produce an audience the revenue the local station receives also drops. You soon get an Affiliate demanding the broadcaster take action

So when a show fails to generate audience a lot of people start to lose money very quickly, so the broadcaster has to have a huge amount of faith in a show to keep running it when they're losing millions of $ every showing

This is why there's rarely any wrap-up, plus as the broadcaster orders a run of about 9 episodes at a time, the scripts are the first thing done. To have a wrap-up episode requires them to order extra episodes of something they're losing money on
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Old 30-11-2016, 14:46
Aetius_Maralas
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Shows I like being cancelled = Complete collapse of western civilisation.

That's some sense of entitlement.
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Old 30-11-2016, 16:20
Hamlet77
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Shows I like being cancelled = Complete collapse of western civilisation.

That's some sense of entitlement.
I think that sums up the OP and there issue perfectly.

Still reckon they're a Hayley Attwell fan.
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Old 29-12-2016, 17:12
Evil Genius
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Who says US TV is suffering? From announcing the new schedules in early May they typically have sold every advertising slot by the end of June

The US is not UK TV, in the UK broadcasters commission 6 episodes in the US a series order is 22-24 episodes, typically ordered in batches of 9

In the upfronts the broadcasters promise the advertisers a certain level of audience and a certain demographic of that audience and sell the adverts based upon that. Thus if a show fails to deliver that promise the broadcasters have to actually refund the advertisers

So when a show is not doing well not only is it costing them to make the show but it's actually costing them to put on the show. If a car manufacturer was making a car that cost them money to produce should they continue to make it even though no-one was interested

Also don't forget in the US, the broadcasters do not own the many TV stations that are showing the show. When Channel 5 in Podunk claims to be NBC7 they really mean they have a licence to show 5 or 6 hours of NBC programming each day. These are Affiliated Stations as the Broadcaster doesn't own them

So the local station owners get a cut of the advertising revenue that a show produces, so once again if the show fails to produce an audience the revenue the local station receives also drops. You soon get an Affiliate demanding the broadcaster take action

So when a show fails to generate audience a lot of people start to lose money very quickly, so the broadcaster has to have a huge amount of faith in a show to keep running it when they're losing millions of $ every showing

This is why there's rarely any wrap-up, plus as the broadcaster orders a run of about 9 episodes at a time, the scripts are the first thing done. To have a wrap-up episode requires them to order extra episodes of something they're losing money on
Thanks Dave. I did find that interesting.
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Old 29-12-2016, 18:18
RebelScum
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It's a figure of speech

I wasn't actually calling you crazy

I'm willing to debate. But so far you've offered me nothing that suggests otherwise

I cannot agree with your point
There's nothing to debate. It is the way it is and there's nothing you can do about it. You having a moan on a forum and calling people who disagree with you crazy isn't going to change anything, and probably one ones idea of a good time. Grow up.
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Old 29-12-2016, 18:50
Petingo
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BIB The fades comes to mind was left on a cliffhanger and i'm sure there are more UK network shows that never wrappeed things up.
What i'd like to see from networks is if a show is cancelled then do one or two more episodes just to wrap things up, i now wait until a new show has been renewed or not left on a cliffhanger before i start to watch.

Yes, Banished and Beowulf are two very recent examples of Britush TV series finishing a season with the story unresolved only to be cancelled.
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Old 29-12-2016, 20:31
gilesb
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Usually uk shows are all made before being shown where as US shows are made as they go.

That said, I am sure some uk shows doing badly in the ratings have been pulled mid series or shunted to a time around midnight.

I can't think of any off the top of my head but I am sure it has happened.
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Old 30-12-2016, 14:39
Futurama-Fan
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Usually uk shows are all made before being shown where as US shows are made as they go.

That said, I am sure some uk shows doing badly in the ratings have been pulled mid series or shunted to a time around midnight.

I can't think of any off the top of my head but I am sure it has happened.
I can give you two examples, both from ITV in the mid 2000's:-

1). Judgement Day (with Brian Conley) - 2003 - the ratings were so bad that the show was pulled from the schedule after only 2 episodes out of 6 had aired. The remain 4 episodes have never been aired.

2) Celebrity Wrestling - 2005 - rating were so poor, but so much money had been spent on production, that after episode 5 of 8 had aired on Saturday Prime the show went on hiatus for weeks before the final 3 episodes were aired in a graveyard Sunday Morning slot - and the ITV2 aftershow was cancelled after episode 5, ie they never got aired.
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Old 30-12-2016, 18:05
donna255
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I can give you two examples, both from ITV in the mid 2000's:-

1). Judgement Day (with Brian Conley) - 2003 - the ratings were so bad that the show was pulled from the schedule after only 2 episodes out of 6 had aired. The remain 4 episodes have never been aired.

2) Celebrity Wrestling - 2005 - rating were so poor, but so much money had been spent on production, that after episode 5 of 8 had aired on Saturday Prime the show went on hiatus for weeks before the final 3 episodes were aired in a graveyard Sunday Morning slot - and the ITV2 aftershow was cancelled after episode 5, ie they never got aired.



It was shown against the relaunched Doctor Who and never stood a chance in hell.
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