The only thing wrong with that is that it implies that the percentage of customers who need disabled spaces can be calculated as a percentage of people who park at the sports centre. But is that the point? When you think about it, it's likely that 100% of people with disabilities who use the sports centre need parking spaces, whereas the percentage of people without disabilities who need a parking space is bound to be lower. Some can walk there, some can use public transport, many can cycle, some may car-share, some may travel in minibuses etc.

So the 10% may be an artificial figure whose purpose is to protect the needs of the people with disabilities even though they may not need all those spaces, because purely in terms of parking facilities, people without disabilities should not prevent disabled people from accessing a sports centre. Which - before anyone says it - doesn't happen the other way round, because people without disabilities can get to the sports centre much more easily.

To make the spaces smaller or larger requires closing off what is often a fairly large part of the car park (to allow for the equipment and safety), burning off the old lines, then marking them up again.
Last time one of my local supermarkets did it, it took several days of fairly major disruption as they moved the disabled bays (they were doing some work and needed to use the space taken up by the disabled bays for parking materials on).
Also removing the markings and laying them down again is not a clean process and the heat used to burn the paint off is not good for the surface of the car park, which combined with the cost of the removal means that it's an expensive proposition and one that is not done lightly (youi're probably talking several thousand pounds to do it each time)..
it's one of the reasons there are often ghost lines in car parks that haven't been resurfaced recently as the old ones often remain partly visible unless the contractors have spent a lot of time and multiple passes on removing them (which increases the cost and potential for damage to the tarmac).

As for using wider spaces for normal spots to make it easier to convert them to disabled bays, that's basically the worst of both worlds.

It is also worth noting that is relatively easy for management of a club or sports centre to work out how many disabled spots they're likely to need, for one thing they can look at the attendance of any scheduled events that are aimed specifically at the disabled (that'll give a rough minimum), look at the percentage of attendees that make use of any disability or OAP concessions, and ask members or visitors to fill in questionnaires.
It's one of the reasons a lot of places do ask questions like your age, if you've got any disability etc when you sign up for things it's a useful set of data for what is needed and wanted..

Aye that's a point I was trying to make.

I think the governments own figures are that something considerably more than 4% of cars in use have someone in them with a blue badge, despite only 4% of the population having a BB.
This is because disabled people are far more likely to rely on the car as a primary transport method even locally (whilst non disabled are likely use other options for shorter distances). The legal requirements are just a bare minimum intended to ensure that there will be a couple of spots in most car parks even the small ones, and even those legal requirements aren't as simple as 2 plus 2% as if there is anyone employed at a company with a car park who is disabled then they're meant to have another spot for each disabled employee (from memory, it's been a while since I looked at the regulations).

The last time I took my mother to our local swimming pool/sports centre it had about 8 disabled space out of 60-80, and all the disabled spots were in use (which was mildly problematic as my mother is disabled and the car park was in desperate need of resurfacing).

I suspect the op has never regularly given lifts to anyone who is disabled and unable to walk unaided, it's an eye opener when you're having to judge distances not just on convenience but on how practical it is, and the surface for a heavy wheelchair.

Not sure if I've misunderstood, but are you saying that pregnant women are entitled to use a disabled space?

I've seen women shouting at pregnant women (yes more than one ocassion) for using mother baby spaces, let alone disabled ones.

Are you sure they`re full of people with blue badges, as opposed to non blue badge holders. That`s the point. When I did my research there were always much more than 3 cars in the disabled spaces, but (on average) there were just less than 3 who were actual blue badge holders, i.e. had a right to be there.

You obviously don`t use the same car parks as me ! I agree it`s relatively rare to find an absolutely full supermarket car park, but the worst are leisure centre / sports centre car parks, particularly in the evenings. Ponds Forge in Sheffield is notorious, you frequently see cars circulating for 5 minute plus trying to find a space.

I think this is what was touched on earlier. That is to say "over providing" disabled spaces in order to decrease the chances of there being none available. The obvious question there is how far do you go with that one ? If it`s a car park which is rarely full it doesn`t really matter, but if it`s a car park that`s regularly full that`s a different question entirely. As an example, if we have a well used frequently full car park where, on average, 3 disabled spaces are in use by blue badge holders*, and the most counted was 6, how many disabled parking spaces do you think should be provided ?

* I`m emphasising this because I counted many cars in the disabled spaces, but they weren`t actually blue badge holders. So that`s an enforcement issue.

The point was child car seats so yes it is relevant, because of mortality rates the seats were introduced and to get to a supermarket etc in a car you need to use the highway.

And it`s a legal requirement to have one and put your child in it.

Can you do me a favour ? The next time that happens, check how many of the cars parked in those bays are actually displaying a blue badge ? I`d be interested to know. At our sports centre it was less than half. Or it was till they introduced a parking warden, now it`s nearly all of them. The only problem is we now have unused parking spaces ! Surely there`s a better way to organise this...... What we want is only blue badge holders to use disabled parking spaces, but for there not to be empty parking spaces when people (disabled or not) need them.

Can we have "i like my car and don't want it damaged" spaces too?

Can be far away from the store if they want, just a little bit wider and safe in the knowledge you wont get some numpty slamming their doors into yours.

Pregnancy and maternity are protected characteristics under Section 4 of The Equalities Act 2010, so yes if for instance a heavily pregnant woman has difficulty getting out of the vehicle, has difficulty walking any distance or needs to be close to the toilets then they may make use of the disabled parking bays.

I was talking about supermarkets, but now that you mention it the gym I used to go was an absolute joke for parking spaces. It used to spill over into the carpark for the offices next door.

Is there NOT age limit on what age you can use parent child bays.if not there should be and it should be say 11 at the latest. Maybe younger.

Surely it simply depends on if the child is in a car seat (and needs help getting out of it, obviously) ? If the child can get out of the seat / belt on there own, then the parent should not be using the parent/child spaces because they have no need to.

Just blithely saying if you're pregnant you can park in disabled spaces is wrong.

If the pregnant woman doesn't have a blue badge and parks in on street disabled parking she will be fined for parking in a disabled bay without a blue badge.

The parking for supermarkets and other places where the parking is on private land the rules of Contract Laws will apply and will differ depending on the owner of the land. If the signage says disabled only parking she will risk a fine.

My supermarket has 2 disabled bays and about 15 parent and children bays and several hundred normal bays for everyone. Disabled is always full.

I doubt that if they haven't got a disabled badge they'd be legally allowed, protected under the Equalities Act or not.

There are plenty of protected groups in that Equalities Act who can't just park where they like.

Would be cool though.

Disabled bays and blue badges

Most car parks provide disabled bays to meet the requirement in the Equality Act 2010 to provide ‘reasonable adjustments’ to those who fit the lawful definition of disability. That means the person has the lawful right to park there if they have a long-term disability and they have the need for a disabled bay (e.g. because it is wider, nearer the shops). For council-owned car parks and public roads, the blue badge scheme is run to enable holders to show that they have certain parking rights. However, the blue badge scheme does not apply on private land.

Often private car parks have signs demanding drivers display a blue badge when using the disabled parking bays, or risk getting a parking ticket. However, just because someone does not hold (or does not display) a blue badge does not mean they are not disabled; the Equality Act does not require the driver to display any sort of badge or permit. Anyone who fits the lawful definition of disability is entitled to make use of the ‘reasonable adjustments’. What they are in effect doing is adding arbitrary rules to the lawful right of someone to use a ‘reasonable adjustment’, and this could be considered a breach of the Equality Act.

Surely that just means that they cannot be discriminated against eg treated unfavourably in the workplace due to their pregnancy?
I really doubt that it means they can park in disabled spaces. How would it be discrimination to say that they have to obey the same rules as all other non disabled citizens?

This is true.

But one of the means test for deciding on this disability is whether it will last more than 12 months, which means a really fat person would have more protection to park there under this Act than pregnant women.

Protection due to pregnancy, isn't a warranty to park where they please as each pregnancy is different.

The protection afforded by this Act on grounds of race, age, disability are materially for the workplace.

Probably are all disabled people. Nobody would want to be named and shamed doing that.

"a fine" under contract law, issued by a private company, do you want to think about that?


The booklet that comes with the Blue Badge states quite clearly that they have no legal standing when parking on private land.

I agree it wouldn't apply to most protected groups, there'd be no reason why gays, blacks or jews would need a reasonable adustment when it comes to parking, but pregnancy and maternity can mean restrictions on mobility etc. that would quite legitimately require the use of a disabled parking space (or a disabled toilet).

How does that translate to 'pregnant women can park in disabled spaces?' Surely everyone can park in them, if they have no legal status (although you would hope that non blue badge holders would have the decency not to).

Someone with a bad back, or someone recovering from surgery are two examples of groups that might have temporary restrictions on mobility. It doesn't mean that they 'legitimately require the use of a disabled parking space'. You can't have a situation where a pregnant woman just decides that her mobility is restricted enough to warrant her taking a disabled space.

And that would be why there are what you perceive to be an excess of disabled parking bays. If the car park is full, it's inconvenient for someone who isn't disabled to park somewhere else, but is can be extremely difficult for a disabled person to park somewhere else and have to go the extra distance to the sport centre / shops / cinema / wherever. My brother in law had lung cancer and had a disabled parking badge because he physically couldn't walk very far. If he couldn't park near to the door of the place he was visiting then he couldn't go there.