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Old 06-12-2016, 15:43
srpsrp
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Before pratting any more get a switchfuse fitted between the meter and the fusebox (most electricity companies will do it for free) which will make life easier as pulling the service fuse can be rather a dangerous thing.
OK I'll see what they say. I was wandering if I could get a standalone RCD put before the CU. I understand this is not ideal, but maybe cheaper as a stop gap than replacing CU.
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Old 06-12-2016, 16:11
seacam
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There is no switch ! only the one on the CU itself.
That is what I meant, why didn't you use on/off switch on CU?
How much does a re-wire cost ?
How large is the property, all brick/stud, what?
Would that be because of the rodent problem or age of system, it's only 1979 house I think
Lets call the wiring 35 years of age, it's past its sell by date by a large margin not helped by rodent damage.
It's about 2" below the top of the wall inside the cavity, it may actually be possible to lay on my chest with a head torch.( it's a pitched roof so hardly any room.
Can you turn off/isolate all circuits via the consumer unit on/off switch?

Does one existing fuse protect both the upstairs and downstairs lighting, how many ceiling roses all together?

If 1 fuse only for all lighting in property, how many cores, ( red cable ), go into it?

Do you have a spare fuse holder on your CU?
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Old 06-12-2016, 16:31
srpsrp
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I did turn off the CU switch. There were two red wires going out the lighting fuse and to get at them to remove the faulty upstairs one, I had to partially remove the gubbins from inside the CU.

I could see that the switch isolated virtually every thing but thought I'd under two screws to pull out the mains feed and tape it up for added safety just in case.

I've got a spare fuse + wire for a removed immersion heater in the bathroom, which is the whole reason I originally high jacked this thread

Cheers every one I'm getting paranoid now !
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Old 06-12-2016, 16:58
RobinOfLoxley
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As long as your Smoke Alarms are recently tested, your House Insurance is up to date and you have a non-flammable Duvet, don't worry about it too much.

And don't drop any of your temporary lighting in the bath, or touch with wet hands.

Get it sorted as soon as practicable.
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:05
seacam
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I did turn off the CU switch. There were two red wires going out the lighting fuse and to get at them to remove the faulty upstairs one, I had to partially remove the gubbins from inside the CU.

I could see that the switch isolated virtually every thing but thought I'd under two screws to pull out the mains feed and tape it up for added safety just in case.

I've got a spare fuse + wire for a removed immersion heater in the bathroom, which is the whole reason I originally high jacked this thread

Cheers every one I'm getting paranoid now !
Hi

Leave the bloody meter tails to the consumer unit alone from now on, use the CU switch only if you have to.

So you have identified and disconnected the supply to the upstairs lighting only, that's red, black and earth cores to this circuit---correct?

And it is the supply feed from CU to upstairs lighting circuit damaged,---sure--- and does/did this feed go to first ceiling rose and loop to others in the circuit or does feed go to a round junction box?

And your down stairs lighting is working,---correct?

How many ceiling light fittings for upstairs? Or guesstamate total lamp wattage for this circuit or required.
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Old 06-12-2016, 18:10
srpsrp
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Hi

Leave the bloody meter tails to the consumer unit alone from now on, use the CU switch only if you have to. .
I can't find a decent picture on line, however there are a lot of bare metal conductors inside a Wylex fuse box, being a complete amateur I am, I decided that removing the red meter tail would not hurt.

So you have identified and disconnected the supply to the upstairs lighting only, that's red, black and earth cores to this circuit---correct?
I removed the red and black for the upstairs circuit, (will definitely check this again to be 100% sure, I get your point!) I generally avoided touching any bare wires any where so maybe hence why still alive ?


And it is the supply feed from CU to upstairs lighting circuit damaged,---sure--- and does/did this feed go to first ceiling rose and loop to others in the circuit or does feed go to a round junction box?
Feed cable up stairs is verifiably gnawed to the copper and scorched. Cable went straight to first ceiling rose and onto others.

And your down stairs lighting is working,---correct?

How many ceiling light fittings for upstairs? Or guesstamate total lamp wattage for this circuit or required.
Yes Downstairs is OK, there are 4 ceiling lights up stairs, one has a 4*50W GU10 type fitting but all the other are just CFL low energy bulbs, there're 8 ceiling lights in total in the house.
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Old 06-12-2016, 18:18
Maxatoria
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It should also be said to get a cheap multimeter and find out how to use it...test continuity and voltage levels etc, always a good thing just for checking things even like batteries and fuses.
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Old 06-12-2016, 20:22
seacam
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I can't find a decent picture on line, however there are a lot of bare metal conductors inside a Wylex fuse box, being a complete amateur I am, I decided that removing the red meter tail would not hurt.



I removed the red and black for the upstairs circuit, (will definitely check this again to be 100% sure, I get your point!) I generally avoided touching any bare wires any where so maybe hence why still alive ?



Feed cable up stairs is verifiably gnawed to the copper and scorched. Cable went straight to first ceiling rose and onto others.



Yes Downstairs is OK, there are 4 ceiling lights up stairs, one has a 4*50W GU10 type fitting but all the other are just CFL low energy bulbs, there're 8 ceiling lights in total in the house.
OK

Your bathroom extractor does it go on/off immediately with light switch or goes off few minutes later, is there a separate isolator extractor fan switch? ( doubt it but I have to ask), I'm assuming bathroom is upstairs?

Do you know how to use a multimeter to check for continuity?

Is it your intention to add extra ceiling roses or replace roses with multi GU 10 lamp fittings in the future upstairs?
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Old 07-12-2016, 09:14
srpsrp
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I've actually got an ONC in electronics! I can assure you I know how to use a multimeter.

seacam: Why are you going on about extractor fans ??
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Old 07-12-2016, 11:06
seacam
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I've actually got an ONC in electronics! I can assure you I know how to use a multimeter.

seacam: Why are you going on about extractor fans ??
Hi SR

Not going on about it, simple question, do you have a timer extractor fan wired into the upstairs lighting circuit?

SR as much as it appears to be the most attractive and a sensible approach to come off the old immersion heater cabling, DON'T!

The simple reason is you have no idea the condition of this cable and even if not got at by rodents, it's what, 30-35 years old maybe?

The most effective way of dealing with this is to run new cabling from existing CU to the 1st upstairs ceiling rose, so long as you are as sure as you can be it is the existing feed from CU to 1st ceiling rose that has been damaged.

You may be thinking how the hell do I run new cable from CU to loft space,--think about it!

Not forgetting new feed, at least for now can be surface mounted so long as it is safe.

Get your thinking hat on, then we take it from there.

And please answer question about extractor fan and are you going to extend upstairs lighting in the future?
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Old 07-12-2016, 18:11
srpsrp
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Hi SR

Not going on about it, simple question, do you have a timer extractor fan wired into the upstairs lighting circuit?

SR as much as it appears to be the most attractive and a sensible approach to come off the old immersion heater cabling, DON'T!

The simple reason is you have no idea the condition of this cable and even if not got at by rodents, it's what, 30-35 years old maybe?

The most effective way of dealing with this is to run new cabling from existing CU to the 1st upstairs ceiling rose, so long as you are as sure as you can be it is the existing feed from CU to 1st ceiling rose that has been damaged.

You may be thinking how the hell do I run new cable from CU to loft space,--think about it!

Not forgetting new feed, at least for now can be surface mounted so long as it is safe.

Get your thinking hat on, then we take it from there.

And please answer question about extractor fan and are you going to extend upstairs lighting in the future?
I don't have an extractor at all, there is a window. I have no intention of extending upstairs lighting.

I take your point regarding the state of the immersion heater cable, it runs right under the bath tub, although the tub is plastic and the pipes earthed I guess. The fuse is pulled at the moment any way.

The upstairs light feed cable is definitely damaged I've seen it with my own eyes. I was completely amazed, it's where it does a 90 degree bend to go into the cavity. Some nasty little rat has sat there and sharpened his teeth on it. I can see the bare copper and scorch marks.

I also have a whole load of satellite dish cables in the loft (8 LNB dish for various TV's etc) and a lot of that has been nibbled at. Fortunatly I used decent foil wrapped cable and it looks like they couldn't get through it.

The wires to the CU are well plastered in and there is no way to isolate CU from outside. Of course there is no guarantee that the upstairs cable is not also damaged else where.

What I might do is to try and connect a new piece of wire at the damaged part, it's going to be a PITA though due to where it is. And then I have to tackle the CU again to reconnect it.

Surface mount idea might be possible, although it would have to run up past the bath or horizontally across the downstair hall ! I'm not sure how to get cable out of CU anyway ? I could perhaps also drill a hole next to the CU and run a new cable down cavity, hence avoiding to much prodding around in the fuse box, although this would look well dodgy IMHO.

I've got another supply in the loft from an RCD spur that I used to wire up a bathroom heater. This comes off the socket ring main. Could I just use that perhaps, it's 13A though.

Thanks for help !
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Old 07-12-2016, 20:42
seacam
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Hi SR,

Thanks for the details, It is how I was suspecting and it's my reasons for the interrogation, you get a feel sometimes, you know what I mean.
I don't have an extractor at all, there is a window. I have no intention of extending upstairs lighting.
Understood.
I take your point regarding the state of the immersion heater cable, it runs right under the bath tub, although the tub is plastic and the pipes earthed I guess. The fuse is pulled at the moment any way.

I've got another supply in the loft from an RCD spur that I used to wire up a bathroom heater. This comes off the socket ring main. Could I just use that perhaps, it's 13A though.
And in a way this is my concern and why I said I would not advise further but that has gone out of the window but I'm only to aware I'm advising someone over a forum.

Clearly you have your thinking hat on but it is not the right hat.

Forget RCDs, spurs or coming off this that and the other and NO! forget the bathroom heater spur, DON'T do this.

It is as I said in an early post, rodents aren't selective, you can have no idea of further damage, the fact you see some might only be part of a larger issue.

And proof is in the gnawing, they have had a go at other cabling.

Electronics experts or those in the field are fantastic, I often like think they sit in their homes/workshops/areas and construct time traveling machines and I stand in awe but most I have worked for are shit sparkies.
The upstairs light feed cable is definitely damaged I've seen it with my own eyes. I was completely amazed, it's where it does a 90 degree bend to go into the cavity. Some nasty little rat has sat there and sharpened his teeth on it. I can see the bare copper and scorch marks.
It really isn't that unusual.
What I might do is to try and connect a new piece of wire at the damaged part, it's going to be a PITA though due to where it is. And then I have to tackle the CU again to reconnect it.
This would have been the easiest, if a temporary solution, 2 x 5 amp junction boxes, ( NOT CONNECTOR BLOCKS } and a length of new cabling but you keep mentioning the PITA just getting to damaged section and there is no guarantee this will resolve the issue,--it might-- but no guarantee further in the circuit, imo I think your efforts would be better spent affording you a longer, DIY safer solution.

Can you keep new wiring out of bathroom area?

And having asked that, a competent DIY sparkie, ( no disrespect ), would only charge you £200 to do the job.

So do you want to self DIY and I will advise further but I will want you to PM me a couple of photos or get some one in?
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Old 08-12-2016, 07:29
srpsrp
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So do you want to self DIY and I will advise further but I will want you to PM me a couple of photos or get some one in?
This issue, although annoying, is really not the biggest of my worries at the moment. I've been unemployed for a while and had to restrict non essential spending. I have a huge list of other things to repair or replace.

Looks like next thing is to try and extend the damaged cable, avoiding dropping it down the cavity or it's game over!

I'll have a chat with my Dad about it over Christmas, see what he reckons.

Thanks
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Old 08-12-2016, 07:45
Maxatoria
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If you're going to splice in a new section of cable get waggo's or something similar as they're maintenance free so no need to be available for inspection and in theory you can even plaster them into the walls etc.
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Old 08-12-2016, 09:00
srpsrp
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If you're going to splice in a new section of cable get waggo's or something similar as they're maintenance free so no need to be available for inspection and in theory you can even plaster them into the walls etc.
cool, that could be a real time saver would they have to be put in an enclosure though?
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Old 08-12-2016, 09:25
Maxatoria
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cool, that could be a real time saver would they have to be put in an enclosure though?
Its a junction box but you still need the connectors but they're like 18 quid for a big box full of them from screwfix which will probably last you a lifetime.

Its wago not waggo (oops), they're easy to use and install so less farting around.
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Old 08-12-2016, 11:15
seacam
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This issue, although annoying, is really not the biggest of my worries at the moment. I've been unemployed for a while and had to restrict non essential spending. I have a huge list of other things to repair or replace.

Looks like next thing is to try and extend the damaged cable, avoiding dropping it down the cavity or it's game over!

I'll have a chat with my Dad about it over Christmas, see what he reckons.

Thanks
Sorry, things get tough.

There are several ways to resolve this, but the two that come to mind is to take a fused spur off an upstairs ring main, so long as there is no other spur on that circuit, then a feed cable into your loft that way and to the ceiling rose supplied by the damaged cable,---maybe the easiest option.

Or,

a new supply feed from the CU into the loft then to the ceiling rose.

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