I couldn't have put this better thank you.

I wouldn't mind as much if he was just grumpy with everyone, then it would simply just be his character. But he's only unpleasant towards Martin, even when Martin is doing nothing wrong. A nasty, rude man.

He doesnt like him we cant like everybody. He finds him annoying. We judge campmates on the few minutes we see of them in a day. Campmates judge other campmates on the 24 hours a day they get to spend with them. He spent nearly 4 hours doing that trial with Martin listening to him prattle on and on and on. I think Martin got off lightly.

Miserable git Larry to leave if you please...

I wouldn't mind Larry winning actually, well either Larry, Martin or Sam, even Wayne, anything to stop Adam, Joel or Scarlett winning. All are just pushed and pushed and pushed onto us.

Maybe it was switched off when he was caught talking about Martin and didnt know he was being picked up by the crew..

Martin's certainly not my favourite (Carol was, not sure who to back now), but Larry has shown himself to be bitchy, vindictive and sly. No way do I want him to win.

Id like Martin to win, but if not anyone except Adam or Larry... please.

When was that? They've all been "grumpy" about Martin, talked about him behind his back and some of them have had the guts to tell him directly which he really needed and he's actually benefitted from. Why is Larry singled out? He went OTT once, his own responsibility when he'd allowed his frustration with Martin to get the better of him.
My sympathy is still with Larry and his honesty rather than anyone who started claiming they liked Martin only after they discovered anything about public thinking after the first public vote.

It's not compulsory for everyone imprisoned with him or watching him to like Martin or anyone else. Larry's clearly and unsurprisingly up the wall, considering his age and how long he's had to put up with him and his non-stop attention seeking at any cost. He might have stopped his insults and arrogance but he's not the steadiest person to be imprisoned with.

Predictably Martin reverted to petulance and vacuousness last night after the vote result. Also predictably he took most of it out on Adam, the person he's closest to and who's helped him most.
He was most likely in the same vote position again as a result.
I hope he gets a grip and stops needing to resurrect his self-destructiveness after last night's result and wins more votes tonight as a result.

^ I think that's absolutely at the root of Larry's ire with him. And my sympathy is with Larry.

In any case, I like my campers warts and all, and I'd much rather see an honestly irate Larry than one concerned with people-pleasing and pretending to be all sweetness and light in the face of someone who is quite obviously getting on his last nerve.

So yeah, Larry for the final (along with Sam and Joel) is fine by me.

I just wonder how the dynamics might have changed if Danny would have been kept in. Martin wouldnt have had the life of a dog with both of them.

Danny was fine with Martin after he told him straight though. He hasn't added anything derogatory in his interviews and he's defended him by explaining at least one of the understandable reasons for Martins earlier behaviour. He hadn't seen the show, had no idea what it was about and he'd assumed it was like Big Brother. Not team work and mutual support for the good of them all.

Hear hear.

That would be a good final three. None of them have put on a constant act while looking for a camera either, unlike two of the chosen who I don't need to name

He didn't appear to have a go at Carol (also in her 50s), who also did her fair share of leaping about and shouting (not that there's anything wrong with that).

The reason why Larry treats Martin harshly is because Larry has taken on the role of alpha male, but that can only work if he's surrounded by younger people. No middle aged man is going to look at him with the adoration he thinks he deserves.

I'd be happy with any of those three in the final or even Wayne. I like Scarlett but I do feel that the producers have shot themselves in the foot by giving her so much airtime. She might have won it (she still might) without such blatant favouritism.

Carol has never other been relentless or overbearing to the point where something jas to be said. And this is the first time I've seen anyone mention this! Indeed no one in camp had a bad word to say about Carol...?

Similarly it's not as though Danny or Carol were young and are similar ages to Martin (well closer in ages than the 'younger people' and Larry liked them just fine.

Oh please! Talk about false equivalencies!

Carol was one of the most grounded, mature, sensitive-to-others people in there. Comparing her to Martin in shouty, attention-seeking terms is ludicrous.

Never once did Carol sulk or throw a tantrum while she was in there. She was relentlessly considerate and was almost the complete opposite of Martin. Age didn't come into it either.

I like Scarlett too and it's really unfortunate for her that the edit has turned so many people off her. Yes, she tries too hard to be entertaining, yes, she does like to be at the centre of things, but she's in there to win and is only doing what she thinks she needs to do to stay to the end. And yes, she can be quite grating at times and she's far from the most interesting person in there, but there's nothing nasty or mean or begrudging about her, and were it not for the edit, she'd probably be much better liked on the strength of the person she is, rather than the relentlessly annoying attention-seeker we're being shown.

^^^ exactly.

Martin was sulking and whinging within a matter of hours after dropping in from The Versace, to people who had already been 'making do' for several days. They had all chipped in and worked hard as a team.

btw, really wanted Carol to stay longer and certainly longer than Martin.

Carol was an absolute delight and I was sad to see her go. I hope she's having lots of pampering and good food today.

I just could not vote for larry (whom I liked before this show), people talk about Martin being childish and petulent and yet seem to admire Larry who's behaviour in there is worse than childish. He is not only grumpy, but nasty, self entitled, lazy and imo a bit of a bully.

How childish was he during the DD trial to ignore Martins attempts to lighten the mood and rub along...just because he dislikes a campmate does not mean he should not at least make an attempt to get along when needed. Larry is so rude and ignorant when he takes against someone.
Martin I have observed is very mature in how he handles criticism and Larry could really learn a lot from Martin on just how easy going Martin is considering the negativity shown towards him. For all Martins faults he seems quite an honest depreciating of himself fella with a sense of fun who basically just wants to be liked.
Larry on the other hand is a miserable old git with a sense of entitlement and a bitchy demeanour.

In case I gave the wrong impression, I thought Carol was great!

And maybe it was a false comparison - I was just trying to make the point that Larry's dislike of attention-seeking behaviour (as he sees it) can't be based on age alone.

Maybe Larry seen himself more of a Santa Claus in there at first with a crying 26yr old sitting on his knee... He must have thought that was ok, she isnt a child or even a teenager, she s a woman.

What does that even mean?

A poster yesterday evening was making suggestions about people sitting on Larry's knee and making it sound very bad - are you suggesting what I think you're suggesting as that other poster seemed to be?

If so, then its in very bad taste and I can't believe people are dropping to that level just because Larry doesn't like Martin. In fact its quite disgusting.