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What other stupid EU rules on electrical appliances exist?
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Thine Wonk
03-12-2016
Originally Posted by tim59:
“I believe they will remain Harmonised, cos' it's easier and cheaper”

Many products are made for the US and asian market without the Euro-restrictions and could be potentially imported legally if we fully leave the EU. It sounds like the camera manufacturers would do just that if they could.

Most electrical goods are made in Asia and imported anyway, with slightly different model references for some markets with specific rules.
tim59
03-12-2016
Originally Posted by Thine Wonk:
“Many products are made for the US and asian market without the Euro-restrictions and could be potentially imported legally if we fully leave the EU. It sounds like the camera manufacturers would do just that if they could.

Most electrical goods are made in Asia and imported anyway, with slightly different model references for some markets with specific rules.”

Why does the uk needs its own rules just for the sake of it, but also you would expect uk business to have the expensive of making one model for uk rules and one for the EU rules were its cheaper just to keep with one
Andrue
03-12-2016
Originally Posted by tim59:
“Why does the uk needs its own rules just for the sake of it, but also you would expect uk business to have the expensive of making one model for uk rules and one for the EU rules were its cheaper just to keep with one”

I suppose as an alternative we could adopt US/Asian rules instead. Not very likely of course, far too much difference from BSI rules. So no, you're quite right of course. BSI will become/remain a rubber stamping exercise only now we'll struggle to get our opinions heard. Being a relatively large market no doubt we'll retain some influence but only as much as the EU members want us to have.

Yay for Brexit
Thine Wonk
03-12-2016
Originally Posted by tim59:
“Why does the uk needs its own rules just for the sake of it, but also you would expect uk business to have the expensive of making one model for uk rules and one for the EU rules were its cheaper just to keep with one”

It isn't for the sake of it, the EU has regulated like crazy, the UK would continue as we used to with British standards, putting in only sensible safety based rules and putting in simple rules about products being safe and designed with skill and care. We don't need an overly bureaucratic system writing literally libraries full of rules detailing every tiny little aspect.

Many countries in Asia, Australia and the US all manage without the silly over the top EU rules. No additional models would be made as products are made for markets all over the world, we just may get the option to buy the model without the EU restrictions, or at least manufacturers can choose what models and features they sell to the UK.
tim59
03-12-2016
Originally Posted by Thine Wonk:
“It isn't for the sake of it, the EU has regulated like crazy, the UK would continue as we used to with British standards, putting in only sensible safety based rules and putting in simple rules about products being safe and designed with skill and care. We don't need an overly bureaucratic system writing literally libraries full of rules detailing every tiny little aspect.

Many countries in Asia, Australia and the US all manage without the silly over the top EU rules. No additional models would be made as products are made for markets all over the world, we just wouldn't get the model with the EU restrictions in some cases, or at least manufacturers can choose what models and features they sell to the UK.”

The good thing about it is you make one thing and it conforms to EU standard it can be sold in all countries in the single market, in the old days you had to make something that conformed to a countries standard, so you could be making a product which had to conform to lets say 30 differant standards, EU rules = 1 standard. Look at it from the usa point build a product that they can sell to the whole of the single market, al apart from the uk because the uk has a different standard, sorry but you manufacture for the large market, and if the uk stays with the EU rules will benefit, or are we going to pay more because of a product must meet uk standards which puts extra cost on production. The usa does not make a car for the uk market they make a car for europe market
Thine Wonk
03-12-2016
Originally Posted by tim59:
“The good thing about it is you make one thing and it conforms to EU standard it can be sold in all countries in the single market, in the old days you had to make something that conformed to a countries standard, so you could be making a product which had to conform to lets say 30 differant standards, EU rules = 1 standard. Look at it from the usa point build a product that they can sell to the whole of the single market, al apart from the uk because the uk has a different standard, sorry but you manufacture for the large market, and if the uk stays with the EU rules will benefit, or are we going to pay more because of a product must meet uk standards which puts extra cost on production”

The UK is unlikely to enforce different standards, just not to adopt some of the over burdensome EU rules, there are plenty of places in the middle east, Europe, US, Asia and Australia that don't have the EU to nanny them and dictate every tiny little detail.
tim59
03-12-2016
Originally Posted by Thine Wonk:
“The UK is unlikely to enforce different standards, just not to adopt some of the over burdensome EU rules.”

Well that not as simple as that as every thing and any thing we manufactor in the uk and want to export into the single market must conform to all eu rules. People tend to think of big things like cars, were infact every bit of food we want to export has to meet eu standards not just in its raw state but in the whole of production, if we wanted to lets say export milk into the EU ok must conform to EU standards, but said no to much like hard work, that does not only effect milk in its raw state but all products that contain uk milk
Thine Wonk
03-12-2016
Originally Posted by tim59:
“Well that not as simple as that as every thing and any thing we manufactor in the uk and want to export into the single market must conform to all eu rules. People tend to think of big things like cars, were infact every bit of food we want to export has to meet eu standards not just in its raw state but in the whole of production, if we wanted to lets say export milk into the EU ok must conform to EU standards, but said no to much like hard work, that does not only effect milk in its raw state but all products that contain uk milk”

We're not talking about UK manufacturing of staple goods though, we're talking about imported electrical goods from outside of the EU.
tiacat
03-12-2016
Cant you just keep the coffee in a slow cooker?
RobinOfLoxley
03-12-2016
The regs worldwide, including American UL and FCC Regs on Safety and RF (EMC), have been more or less identical, for decades, even down to the phrasing in the documents

It's no more hassle to design for 110V than 220-240V. Or Radiation or Noise to be within certain limits. Or International Green limits to be observed.
And my CE Mark is equivalent to your UL or CSA or the old BSI or VDE Marks.

Look at your laptop chargers for all the hoops. They are all more or less the same, and same as having an International Driving Licence they are all accepted.

Some extra testing is required in local markets, but it is not excessive, although some companies complain.

Self-Certification is the problem when some companies lie. Piracy and fakes etc
neo_wales
03-12-2016
Originally Posted by howard h:
“Note earlier in the thread it mentioned vacumn cleaners (reduced) power.
My old 1600w packed in, and I - reluctantly - bought a replacement from Argos at half the power (800w) a Vortex for around £50. Wasn't expecting much from it.

It nearly pulled the ruddy carpet up, never mind the dust! It's not so much the power as the quality of the suction and the head, and I suppose keeping it well maintained. Very impressed, I now have two, one down and one up stairs.”

I got a Gtech Airram 2 from the sale at Argos...great vacuum.
tim59
03-12-2016
Originally Posted by Thine Wonk:
“We're not talking about UK manufacturing of staple goods though, we're talking about imported electrical goods from outside of the EU.”

Well depends how you look at it, so we chould import these goods if we droped the standards down from what we have now, but might cost more than its EU product as its being done defferent spec for smaller market, not sure why i would pay more just because its got a uk mark on it instead of a EU one. And countries out the EU themselves look for bigger markets, if i was making a product i would be looking at the big market for it, well if i conform to EU standards my product can be sold in every single market country, but if i build one for the uk market and there standards i can only sell it in the uk, i know which market i would be looking at.
gamzattiwoo
03-12-2016
Originally Posted by GusGus:
“One good thing was the introduction of fitted plugs
Remember the "joy" of trying to cut the wires to the correct length to fit in the plug”

No because if a wire comes loose there is no way of removing the plug to mend it. I have had a radio rendered useless as a thin wire snapped at where the lead joins the plug.
tealady
03-12-2016
Originally Posted by Thine Wonk:
“Whilst you're pointing tremol to a camera that won't stop recording at 30 minutes which is sold within the EU, can you also point me to a coffee machine with a 1 hour hotplate please.

Thanks”

#70 from evil c
Roush
04-12-2016
Originally Posted by tremol:
“This is a real rule. Canon, along with Nikon don't supply HD capable video cameras to the eu because of this”

Nonsense. I don't know about Nikon but Canon's full range of professional video cameras are available in the EU.

Panasonic have their GH4R mirrorless camera on sale in the EU without a restriction on the length of video recording.

Besides, the EU is participating in the WTO's removal of tariffs on a total of 201 electronics categories, including video cameras.

Tariffs on some categories are being phased out over several years but the majority of the categories were removed in bulk on 1 July 2016.

The tariffs on both stills and video cameras have now been removed so the EU's 30-minute distinction between still and video cameras is no longer relevant.
coughthecat
04-12-2016
Originally Posted by Thine Wonk:
“Now you're just being a troll, the regulations enforce a cut off. Another poster also asked that forum member to point them to a HD digital camera being sold within the EU without the record time timer limit, again it won't be found as the manufacturers hands are tied. Maybe you can point me and the other forum member to the respective products on sale?”

Seriously? I'm being a troll because I question your claim that it isn't possible to find a coffee maker with a 1 hour hotplate?

You might want to try this one.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Melitta-101...tta+look+timer

Note the comment in the review by John S: "You can set the auto off to 20 mins, 40 mins or 1 hour - so I like how they've given you this option."

Other reviewers also mention the 1 hour facility.

However, just to confirm that they're not all telling porkies; here's what ExpertReviews had to say about the product ...

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/home-...k-timer-review

Note the line: "By default the machine keeps the hot plate warm for 40 minutes, although you can change this to 20 or 60 minutes instead."

The fact that the default setting must be 40 minutes but the manufacturers can offer other options has been explained in a number of posts ... and repeatedly ignored.

As your original post linked to a Tesco Direct page, perhaps you'd like to try this coffee maker which is available from them. I'm actually surprised you missed it.

http://www.tesco.com/direct/melitta-...skuId=285-3995

Note the line: "You can set the machine to stay on for 30, 60, 90 or 120 minutes after it has finished brewing, keeping your coffee at the perfect drinking temperature."

It took about 15 minutes to find those.

Not bad for a 'troll'.
noise747
04-12-2016
Originally Posted by neo_wales:
“I got a Gtech Airram 2 from the sale at Argos...great vacuum.”

should have realised you would over pay for a vacuum cleaner. if I was going to pay that much I would want it to do the cleaning for me while I am asleep.

Like people who buy Dyson because they think they are better and yet I have heard a lot of complaints about their reliability and when I borrowed my neighbours because my old cleaner have died, it did not do a better job at all, it picked up no more than my old electrolux,.

I have a Morphy Richards 2 in 1 now, it is fine, does the job well, not as good as a full blown vacuum cleaner but then i would not expect it too, I will get one of them next year when I can find one I like.
noise747
04-12-2016
Originally Posted by coughthecat:
“No. They're not.”

That is what I have read in a few places, and to be honest it would not surprise me and this stupid country will say, oh what a great idea, just like their stupid smart meters.
noise747
04-12-2016
Originally Posted by RobinOfLoxley:
“Just because Supermarkets and DIY chains no longer stock old-style incandescent bulbs doesn't mean they are still not legally available.

Just visit a Poundshop or Google”

They are rough service bulbs, not made for the domestic market, they can be used, bt just not made for it, they do not last as long by all accounts

I got myself a load of 100watt and 60 watt bulbs a few years back, I use them.
BanglaRoad
04-12-2016
Originally Posted by coughthecat:
“Seriously? I'm being a troll because I question your claim that it isn't possible to find a coffee maker with a 1 hour hotplate?

You might want to try this one.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Melitta-101...tta+look+timer

Note the comment in the review by John S: "You can set the auto off to 20 mins, 40 mins or 1 hour - so I like how they've given you this option."

Other reviewers also mention the 1 hour facility.

However, just to confirm that they're not all telling porkies; here's what ExpertReviews had to say about the product ...

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/home-...k-timer-review

Note the line: "By default the machine keeps the hot plate warm for 40 minutes, although you can change this to 20 or 60 minutes instead."

The fact that the default setting must be 40 minutes but the manufacturers can offer other options has been explained in a number of posts ... and repeatedly ignored.

As your original post linked to a Tesco Direct page, perhaps you'd like to try this coffee maker which is available from them. I'm actually surprised you missed it.

http://www.tesco.com/direct/melitta-...skuId=285-3995

Note the line: "You can set the machine to stay on for 30, 60, 90 or 120 minutes after it has finished brewing, keeping your coffee at the perfect drinking temperature."

It took about 15 minutes to find those.

Not bad for a 'troll'.”

You and your facts and providing answers.
That's not what you're supposed to do when the evil eu is mentioned. There is a supply of phrases from the Mail and Express which cover anything said about the EU.
To do your own research makes you part of the metropolitan elite.
LakieLady
04-12-2016
Originally Posted by GusGus:
“One good thing was the introduction of fitted plugs
Remember the "joy" of trying to cut the wires to the correct length to fit in the plug”


A few months ago, I mentioned that we were taught how to wire a plug at school. My nephews and nieces were mystified, and found it hilarious that, "in the olden days", we bought something, got it how, and had to faff about with wire strippers and a screwdriver before we could use it.

It made me feel very old.
LakieLady
04-12-2016
Originally Posted by DadDancer:
“Is it not a bigger waste to have to throw it away and brew up another batch of coffee?”


You could always re-heat it in the microwave.
kmusgrave
04-12-2016
Originally Posted by LakieLady:
“A few months ago, I mentioned that we were taught how to wire a plug at school. My nephews and nieces were mystified, and found it hilarious that, "in the olden days", we bought something, got it how, and had to faff about with wire strippers and a screwdriver before we could use it.

It made me feel very old. ”

Not only that, even though you'd just spent hundreds of pounds on your new washing machine, you had to BUY the plug to fit on it.
Andrue
04-12-2016
Originally Posted by gamzattiwoo:
“No because if a wire comes loose there is no way of removing the plug to mend it. I have had a radio rendered useless as a thin wire snapped at where the lead joins the plug.”

Eh?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-Redl...rds=wire+snips

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Status-13AP...three+pin+plug

Blue to the left, brown to the right, anything left over stick it up the middle.

There is no EU law saying that you can't replace the plug on a power lead. All the EU said was that it was stupid, annoying and potentially dangerous to supply electrical items without a plug. Another example of a great EU law.
LakieLady
04-12-2016
Originally Posted by tiacat:
“Cant you just keep the coffee in a slow cooker?”




My Stanley thermos flask keeps coffee nice & hot for 3 hours or more, and takes up less space than a slow cooker.
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