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What other stupid EU rules on electrical appliances exist?


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Old 04-12-2016, 20:18
noise747
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A few months ago, I mentioned that we were taught how to wire a plug at school. My nephews and nieces were mystified, and found it hilarious that, "in the olden days", we bought something, got it how, and had to faff about with wire strippers and a screwdriver before we could use it.

It made me feel very old.
People should be taught how to wire a plug, what happens if the plug gets damaged on an appliance or if they they need to do an extension and feed the cable through a hole. People don't seem to no how to change an electric socket or light switch these days.
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Old 04-12-2016, 20:21
noise747
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£149.99 so not overpriced at all...does a very good job. I picked up another as a Christmas present for my daughter.
My next door neighbour got one and the hand one, picks up ok, but container that holds the dust is not very good and seems to fill pretty quick.
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Old 04-12-2016, 20:29
TerraCanis
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Not only that, even though you'd just spent hundreds of pounds on your new washing machine, you had to BUY the plug to fit on it.
Not necessarily. Most of us had a spare plug or two in a drawer somewhere, and there was a reasonable chance that it would have a fuse fitted of the correct rating. Or near enough...
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Old 04-12-2016, 20:36
RobinOfLoxley
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People were crap at wiring plugs, and changing fuses, even when 'everyone did it'

My Aunt and Uncle once asked me to look at their kettle which was 'not right'
"You know about Electrics, don't you?" (I think I was 18 at the time)

I found the 13A Fuse was wrapped in charred Cigarette Packet Foil.

I had a bit of a rant at them. After all, the Corner Shop sold Fags and Fuses!

They didn't really see what all my fuss was about though.
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Old 04-12-2016, 21:18
srpsrp
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pour the coffee into a thermos flask... will stay hot for a whole day. Problem solved.
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Old 04-12-2016, 22:12
Orbitalzone
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pour the coffee into a thermos flask... will stay hot for a whole day. Problem solved.
But how's that going to help create a reason to blame the EU for some crazy new rule?

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Old 04-12-2016, 22:33
RobinOfLoxley
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Search: Thermos Flasks
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Old 05-12-2016, 06:51
noise747
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People were crap at wiring plugs, and changing fuses, even when 'everyone did it'

My Aunt and Uncle once asked me to look at their kettle which was 'not right'
"You know about Electrics, don't you?" (I think I was 18 at the time)

I found the 13A Fuse was wrapped in charred Cigarette Packet Foil.

I had a bit of a rant at them. After all, the Corner Shop sold Fags and Fuses!

They didn't really see what all my fuss was about though.
I seen a few of them in my time to be honest , I have also seen where the earth wire is so lose it is not even making contact or so long it is wrapped around inside the plug.
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Old 05-12-2016, 08:44
killjoy
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I seen a few of them in my time to be honest , I have also seen where the earth wire is so lose it is not even making contact or so long it is wrapped around inside the plug.
Or wiring the christmas lights by stuffing the wires directly into the wall socket, with a matchstick to lift the earth shutter.
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Old 05-12-2016, 09:27
Parker45
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Are all coffee makers, vacs etc made in non EU countries EU compliant? because if not then there wouldn't be the need to manufacture a variant for the UK.
If you think that post Brexit, electical products will be allowed to be imported into the UK without meeting EU or similar regulations, you are mistaken.
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Old 05-12-2016, 10:44
Paul_DNAP
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If you think that post Brexit, electical products will be allowed to be imported into the UK without meeting EU or similar regulations, you are mistaken.
Exactly, the "similar regulations" you mention would be the parts of UK law that are the local implementation of the EU directives. So even if we chose to ignore the EU laws, we'd still be bound by our own laws, unless we were to go through our statue and repeal any law that was based on a EU directive and start form scratch again.
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Old 05-12-2016, 11:07
Thine Wonk
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Exactly, the "similar regulations" you mention would be the parts of UK law that are the local implementation of the EU directives. So even if we chose to ignore the EU laws, we'd still be bound by our own laws, unless we were to go through our statue and repeal any law that was based on a EU directive and start form scratch again.
Our laws would be passed by parliament through by our MPs, and we never saw fit to pass so many tiny little laws on every little aspect of people's lives like the EU does.
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Old 05-12-2016, 11:19
Andrue
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Our laws would be passed by parliament through by our MPs, and we never saw fit to pass so many tiny little laws on every little aspect of people's lives like the EU does.
That was because it was the 1980s and earlier. 'ealth and safety madness' is not an EU construct. The Snooper's charter is not an EU construct (and indeed the EU or at least European Parliament has been trying to limit such laws and protect our freedom).

If you think the UK government is going to go back to a hands-off approach to governance just because we've left the EU you're going to be in for a rude awakening. This is one of the big flaws in the 'give us our country back' argument. It never was 'our' country. Historically it has always belonged to the elite and its citizens have been treated like peasants. Well educated, well treated (mostly) but still very much subjects of the state.

UK governments went along with EU rules for the most part because they agreed with them. Even when they publicly objected it was often just for show. A way to enact an unpopular law and have the blame directed elsewhere. The rules they didn't like they fought for exemptions on or played their veto. You know - things like the Working Time Directive. Our wonderful UK government of the time cared about us so much that it fought tooth and nail to retain the right to get as many hours work out of us each week as an employer could come up with.

The one good thing about Brexit (in my opinion) is that after the dust has settled, no matter what agreement we eventually get little to nothing will have changed. I think workers will lose a few protections and be a bit more exploited but then I intend to retire within the next decade anyway. The sad thing is that large sums of money will have been spent on lawyers and civil servants and a certain amount of economic damage done. But at the end of the day for average person in the street things will be same. Just more capitalist exploitation.

Just a pointless and expensive process.
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Old 05-12-2016, 11:37
Doctor_Wibble
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That was because it was the 1980s and earlier. 'ealth and safety madness' is not an EU construct. The Snooper's charter is not an EU construct (and indeed the EU or at least European Parliament has been trying to limit such laws and protect our freedom).
Elf'n'safety is very much a home-grown jobsworth paradise thing, and there's no shortage of gold-plating and unnecessary messing about with EU stuff that didn't need any adjusting or 'enhancement for clarity'.

Though on a point of clarity, surely it was the ECJ (or 'CJEU'?) that shredded the original Data Retention directive that our regulations were based on, rather than the EU parliament.

The real problem we had here on data retention was not so much requiring service providers (as opposed to what we all normally understand by 'ISP') to hang on to stuff they were logging anyway, so much as the ballooning list of people with access to it.

Though on the Snoopers Charter, very true - not the EU, that's a Home Office thing, and has been for quite some years now. and under a number of different names of course, being the System That Will Not Die.
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Old 05-12-2016, 11:39
Paul_DNAP
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UK governments went along with EU rules for the most part because they agreed with them. Even when they publicly objected it was often just for show. A way to enact an unpopular law and have the blame directed elsewhere.
Indeed, they played this aspect of the game too well, the never ending portrayal of these "unelected eurocrats" forcing laws onto us against the will of our MPs was always an utter nonsense but people always fell for it, and even believe our parliament are the good guys, such as...

Our laws would be passed by parliament through by our MPs, and we never saw fit to pass so many tiny little laws on every little aspect of people's lives like the EU does.
And so given a chance to get rid of them, people took it. And now our MPs are cacking their pants as they will soon have nobody else to blame apart from themselves for whatever mess they get us into, and they will finally have to admit that they actually stand by all these "tiny little laws" that they pass willingly.
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Old 05-12-2016, 13:06
tealady
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Our laws would be passed by parliament through by our MPs, and we never saw fit to pass so many tiny little laws on every little aspect of people's lives like the EU does.
Like VAT you mean?
Have you looked at any home grown VAT legislation?
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Old 05-12-2016, 13:16
killjoy
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Have you looked at any home grown VAT legislation?
Whilst we have some room to manoeuvre on VAT levels; under EU regs we do not have any freedom to zero items ~ cast your mind back to the 'Tampon Tax'

On a more general level once we leave it is probable that at least initially all the current EU regulations will continue as they have been incorporated into UK legislation. It will be up to parliament to repeal, if they so wish, this legislation piece meal in their own time frame.
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Old 05-12-2016, 13:47
Andrue
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On a more general level once we leave it is probable that at least initially all the current EU regulations will continue as they have been incorporated into UK legislation. It will be up to parliament to repeal, if they so wish, this legislation piece meal in their own time frame.
Their own time frame being 'never'. Governments are in the business of making laws, not repealing them. They might repeal a few things like what's left of the Working Time Directive and some other 'worker friendly' aspects of employment law but that's all.

Another name for politician is 'law-maker' and for a reason.

People really should have studied history before voting if their assumption was that it would lead to a citizen's paradise. That's actually less likely outside of the EU.
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Old 05-12-2016, 13:51
LakieLady
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But if you're anything like me, there might have been the slight hint of smugness at knowing how to do something to make something work rather than just 'plug* and play', which obviously was the origin of the downfall of modern civilisation.

And at the same time there was the learning of at least some basics about electricity, it was a practical exercise to make something that was actually going to be used, had to be done right, involving delicate work, visual judgement, following instructions (or copying from the other one while hoping that had been done properly), and if you didn't have wire strippers, improvisation.

There's much truth in that.

When I bought my house, it had one those hideous circular fluorescent lights in the dining room, and I wanted to replace it with an ordinary ceiling rose. I felt totally confident about doing it and then found that there were 4 wires where I was expecting three.

I rang Seeboard (now that dates me, too) and asked to be put through to the technical section, where a very nice but slightly bemused man explained exactly what I needed to do, on the strict understanding that I rang him back afterwards so that he was sure I was safe.

Mind you, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. When the fuse in the electric cooker point went and I had 7 friends coming to dinner, I wrapped the old fuse in foil and put it back in. It was at least a year before it caught fire.
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Old 05-12-2016, 15:27
skinj
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Here is a stupid rule that I stumbled upon the other day.

Cameras that are capable of recording video in HD ( thats 1080p and above) are limited to 29 minutes and 59 seconds of recording time.

They would have to be reclasified as video recording equipment.
The reason the manufacturers ahs capped the time is because above 29 minutes the items become video cameras and fall in to a different tax bracket which would push the price up. the manufacturers have the option entirely to change the time limit but want their items to be as low cost as possible on the shelves.
It is not the afaik the EU mandating that "cameras" can only 29 minutes, it's just that is where the tax limit breaks.
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Old 05-12-2016, 15:33
skinj
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Then why can I not record more than 29 minutes and 59 seconds? on an HD capable unit?
Because the manufacturers don't believe the extra duty that would be paid, for what is now a Video camera and not a camera, is worthwhile paying.
They already make Video cameras that can take photos that already pay this duty.
Ask the manufacturers why they don't. We were told years ago by Panasonic that the reason was the duty to be paid and that the feature was not justifiable at the extra cost to the vast majority of the end-users.
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Old 05-12-2016, 15:42
skinj
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Now you're just being a troll, the regulations enforce a cut off. Another poster also asked that forum member to point them to a HD digital camera being sold within the EU without the record time timer limit, again it won't be found as the manufacturers hands are tied. Maybe you can point me and the other forum member to the respective products on sale?
Their hands are not tied. They could very easily make a camera go over 30 minutes but can't justify doing it when they already have video cameras that do the same thing.
The primary purpose of buying a camera is to take Photos, video recording is an added benefit that is limited to 29.59 seconds to avoid the duty paid on Video cameras. The decision could have been made to charge extra duty on any camera that can record any video at all. This wasn't done. most people do not record for more than a few minutes at a time for things like cutting the cake at a wedding, blowing out birthday candles or singing Happy Birthday etc.
Beyond this & into full continuous video recording they should be classified as a different product.

Afaik the import duty on video cameras from out of the EU is 10.5%, the import on still cameras is 0%.
A hefty mark up to force consumers to pay that just want to take photo's with the odd short video clip, hence the 30 minute leeway.
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Old 05-12-2016, 15:48
Andrue
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Beyond this & into full continuous video recording they should be classified as a different product.
Anyway I assume the option of cutting and resuming always exists. There's surely not many cases where a single shot of longer than half an hour is required, or even desirable.
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Old 05-12-2016, 16:36
skinj
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Their hands are not tied. They could very easily make a camera go over 30 minutes but can't justify doing it when they already have video cameras that do the same thing.
The primary purpose of buying a camera is to take Photos, video recording is an added benefit that is limited to 29.59 seconds to avoid the duty paid on Video cameras. The decision could have been made to charge extra duty on any camera that can record any video at all. This wasn't done. most people do not record for more than a few minutes at a time for things like cutting the cake at a wedding, blowing out birthday candles or singing Happy Birthday etc.
Beyond this & into full continuous video recording they should be classified as a different product.

Afaik the import duty on video cameras from out of the EU is 10.5%, the import on still cameras is 0%.
A hefty mark up to force consumers to pay that just want to take photo's with the odd short video clip, hence the 30 minute leeway.
More info is available here if anyone can be bothered to wade through the various su-sections https://www.gov.uk/guidance/classify...igital-cameras
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Old 05-12-2016, 17:43
neo_wales
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People were crap at wiring plugs, and changing fuses, even when 'everyone did it'

My Aunt and Uncle once asked me to look at their kettle which was 'not right'
"You know about Electrics, don't you?" (I think I was 18 at the time)

I found the 13A Fuse was wrapped in charred Cigarette Packet Foil.

I had a bit of a rant at them. After all, the Corner Shop sold Fags and Fuses!

They didn't really see what all my fuss was about though.
Its fine learning how to wire a plug but people really do need to know what fuse rating is needed for the appliance or they may well experience problems. https://www.davesdiytips.com/fuse-ratings-in-plug-tops/ if in any doubt get it checked.
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