BBC Documentary, was On BBC 4 the other day, might be on i player. Its worth a watch. The episode I seen covered 1985 - 1996 which I feel is a very wonderful colourful period full of variety, and the last golden era before things started to slide

Depeche Mode were featured.

It wasn't as good as I thought just a bunch of obsessive fans

"when things started to slide" is subjective though.... many think that happened in the mid/late 80's, others in the early 70's, others in the late 70's, etc...

i saw one episode a while ago, thought it was poor tbh, i usually am a big fan of rock docs but this was poor.

The people who think things were sliding in 70s / 80s / early 90s refer to it as the end of the big era for their favourite genre, not the end of their favourite genre being played on radio or sold.

As we get into the late 90s pop started to dominate everything, the charts became more pop orientated, Woolworths and then X Factor manipulated it and genres like rock, metal, grunge, rap started to vanish. It was the gradual slide to Justin Beiber being number one for weeks while fans of rock had to rely on searching Youtube and fan sites for their music on independent labels.

although I agree that is true now, their was plenty of these genres in the charts between 2000-2007. Metal and rap were massive start of decade and indie was huge from 2004-2007. Things changed from the download era onwards.

Strangely I would say that from 1985 was when things started to slide. Every year since has been a little bit worse than the one before.

i assume you mean 'manufactured pop', as the charts have always been full of 'pop'..

but is that true?... dance became more popular as the 90's went on in fact id suggest dance was the dominant genre of the 90's.

but as we slipped into the 2000's r n b became popular, there was a huge spike in guitar based music from poprock (busted mcfly) through rock (white stripes qotsa) and goth (evanescence rasmus) .

to me, i dont think the mainstream charts stagnated until after 2006... i think a track released 10 years ago would fit in to todays charts seemlessly. i dont think many tracks from 1996 if any, would sit so easily in a chart from 2006.

as i see it, charts / mainstream has ebbed and flowed quite strongly from the late 50's to the mid 2000's , with a succession of strong styles. whether you liked the styles or not clearly effects whether you think music has diminished or not.

for me, id rate the 2002-5 period as one of the best in british pop history. id rate the last 10 years as possibly the dullest, and certainly the dullest ten year period since the mid 50's.

The charts have always had questionable #1 singles too. It's definitely not something that just started happening in the 80s. I'm sure there will be UK #1 singles from the 50s and 60s that would make people question "why?!!!".

Dance bubbled throughout the 80s thanks the groups like New Order, Human League before we got the US House phase when Jack Your Body topped the charts in 1986, and then by 1988 you had S'Express. Black Box brought Italo House to the mainstream and all this paved the way for the 90s.

Bare in mind Britpop was dominant between 1995-1997 so it was still a varied decade for pop music (as in popular, not "pop" as in Another Level, A1, Hanson because they were just shite!!! )

In 2006 Arctic Monkeys were one of the biggest Brit acts in the charts. I'm sure a couple of the Britpop songs from 1996 would blend nicely into a couple of their singles from 10 years later. Some dance tracks from 1996 would've blended in nicely with some of 2006's biggest hits like Bodyrox and Fedde Le Grande.

I'm going to assume that when you say 2002-2005 were great years, you're referring to albums? Because in 2004 I bought more albums that year than any other years between 2000-2009 but imo the singles chart in 2004 was dreadful. Babycakes? Blazin Squad? The talent was off the scale wasn't it?

As for the last decade, why do you think it's been dull? Do you think record companies are to blame for playing it too safe. So for e.g. you get Ed Sheeran who becomes really popular and all of a sudden you've got all these other record companies wanting to sign their own "Ed Sheeran" who are so unoriginal, they contribute bugger all to the music industry. That is what I find "dull" but this was happening in the late 90s too.

I've actually liked a fair amount of British music over these last 10 years but that's the beauty of music. It's subjective so something I like, might be something you loathe and visa versa.

oh definitely... there were some truely dreadful #1s, especially in the early 70's.


the evolution of dance is a complicated affair, with many sources adding to what became mainstream dance in the 90's, leading to the boom in clubs and 'ibiza'.

it would be very interesting for a proper rock - doc to chronicle the history of dance throughout pop music history.


i agree about the variety, but take blur and oasis out of the equasion and britpop really wasnt that big... i think it was in fashion, and i liked many other acts like supergrass and cast.. but dance was ever present in many forms as it evolved through the whole decade.


some might i agree, but by then things were becoming blander anyway. going back further, 1956 tracks wouldnt fit in 1966, 1966 wouldnt fit in in 1976, and so on...


no.... singles.... there was a lot of class singles, hey ya, feel good inc, no one knows, 7 nation army, in the shadows, a lot of minor hits rock-indie-goth, HIM, rasmus, razorlight, hard fi, transplants, caesars, etc etc etc.... great guitar based music. but even manufactured pop wasnt that bad, blue for eg, was id suggest at the better end of the boyband genre. and i rate s club juniors/7 tracks as examples of good manufactured pop. there was of course a lot of brilliant dance tracks that made the lower reaches of the charts - re flekt - need to feel love, dt8 project - destination, barthezz - on the move, loads more. plus r n b... eve, and others...

for me at least, that period produced some of the best music ever, and its my preferred era for guitar based music, apart from mid 60's!


you answer your own question, record companies being dominant, deciding what released. plus there doesnt appear to be any fire in the bellies of the snowflake generation , the fire that created all the great generic styles we created between the mid 50's and mid 00's.

there have been some quality pop songs though, every so often a classic will appear..... 'nothing sweet about me' 'with every heartbeat' 'blind faith'... but basically its been corporate driven, uninspired, bland, safe, driven by money men not by artists.

That is the point of the series though. The history of pop music through the eyes of normal people e.g. the fans.

Perhaps its better to say "when things started to slide - for them". As you're right. its subjective for each person.

.... and 'for them' is often when their style starts to slip out of fashion and gets succeeded by the next. you can see this with mods n rockers. i do think that certainly in the past, new trends appealed to a new generation of 14-18 year olds who made it their own. after a couple of years when that style started to fade, so did these peoples interest.

i know many people from several generations who always reckon 'their' era was the best. from teddy boys, through 60's, glam, mod/ska of 79, madchester, britpop...etc..

in saying that though, maybe if music has ever 'slidden' , its when manufactured music created by old men became popular..... yeah yet another dig at s/a/w.