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Old 02-12-2016, 17:09
darkjedimaster
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Will be interesting to see what this is like

http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/2/13...one-be-a-nokia

Hopefully this will put them back onto the map.
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Old 04-12-2016, 17:13
david16
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Nokia being back surely should mean a return to support to Nokia S40, Symbian phones and the like.

Support was dropped the moment Microsoft took over them over.
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Old 05-12-2016, 08:55
BKM
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Nokia being back surely should mean a return to support to Nokia S40, Symbian phones and the like.
That's most unlikely! The "new Nokia" is a management buyout of mostly the name from Microsoft and is going to be a very small scale operation compared to the former giant.
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Old 05-12-2016, 11:01
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That's most unlikely! The "new Nokia" is a management buyout of mostly the name from Microsoft and is going to be a very small scale operation compared to the former giant.
True, but you know what they say about little Acorns.
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Old 05-12-2016, 11:47
jonmorris
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Nokia has its name, which is worth a lot.

But it doesn't have the same R&D budgets, nor the expertise. I don't think it can has rights to the PureView tech, and so I do fear what we're going to see is not much different to the countless Chinese phones now on sale. Just with a Nokia logo on them.

That doesn't mean they can't make impressive phones, but they'll be swimming in a sea full of other fish. To leap out will take large marketing budgets, or getting retailers and operators to see value and take a punt.

Nokia had support from everyone back in the day, but then gradually lost everything they built up when Microsoft took over. In those years, I doubt people will still have any loyalty just because of the name, although hopefully someone sees a commercial opportunity.

Given the problems HTC has had, I so wish HTC had become the company to make phones for Nokia. HTC doesn't seem able to market things, so using Nokia could have been a great partnership.
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Old 05-12-2016, 15:38
clonmult
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Nokia has its name, which is worth a lot.

But it doesn't have the same R&D budgets, nor the expertise. I don't think it can has rights to the PureView tech, and so I do fear what we're going to see is not much different to the countless Chinese phones now on sale. Just with a Nokia logo on them.

That doesn't mean they can't make impressive phones, but they'll be swimming in a sea full of other fish. To leap out will take large marketing budgets, or getting retailers and operators to see value and take a punt.

Nokia had support from everyone back in the day, but then gradually lost everything they built up when Microsoft took over. In those years, I doubt people will still have any loyalty just because of the name, although hopefully someone sees a commercial opportunity.

Given the problems HTC has had, I so wish HTC had become the company to make phones for Nokia. HTC doesn't seem able to market things, so using Nokia could have been a great partnership.
The ex-Nokia imaging expertise went to MS (who have done very little with it), JLR and Apple (who really haven't done much with the acquired knowledge either).

If they rely on the Nokia name, they're going nowhere. If they somehow tap into the old Nokia designs (which were sometimes truly fantastic), and also manage to do something decent with imaging (unlikely?), and have decent marketing (which would be a new concept for Nokia), they would maybe stand a chance.

This new Nokia seems to think there is still plenty of mileage in the name. I'm not so sure.
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Old 05-12-2016, 16:10
jonmorris
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Nokia had great designers back in a day when you could experiment and, almost, have fun. Clams, sliders, candybars and so on.

Now you're looking at a touchscreen and how to incorporate a big image sensor, or large speakers, but very little scope to do much more.
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Old 06-12-2016, 02:34
The Lord Lucan
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Hoping Nokia slap a large image sensor on one of these phones and the software tech from before. An updated 1020 for 2017 would be brilliant.
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Old 06-12-2016, 07:46
jonmorris
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Hoping Nokia slap a large image sensor on one of these phones and the software tech from before. An updated 1020 for 2017 would be brilliant.
But they don't have any connection with that technology now. Plus, great as the 1020 was, it wasn't exactly fast to process images.
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Old 06-12-2016, 09:38
clonmult
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But they don't have any connection with that technology now. Plus, great as the 1020 was, it wasn't exactly fast to process images.
It was painfully slow at processing images; in many ways it was a step back from the 808, which could start the camera app, take a photo, before the 1020 even started the camera application. Image quality was better on the 808 too.
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Old 06-12-2016, 12:24
The Lord Lucan
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Indeed.. but they could easily buy the tech in and the Lumina Nokias were hardly fast, period. It was dealing with a 40 odd MP image though.
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Old 06-12-2016, 12:30
jonmorris
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Indeed.. but they could easily buy the tech in and the Lumina Nokias were hardly fast, period. It was dealing with a 40 odd MP image though.
Buy the tech in from who? If it were that easy, I'm sure someone else would have done so already.

And even though processing will have improved a lot, I am still not sure the way these cameras worked would provide a good all-round experience. No burst mode, and other issues that I assume stopped Microsoft releasing a successor (indeed the successors went for a much more 'normal' 20/21MP sensor and lost the Xenon flash.

I expect a major factor is that people want slim phones. We've had Panasonic and Samsung do thicker 'camera focused' phones and sales are usually terrible. So much so that no high street retailer sells them when they come out anymore (the last to dabble was Carphone Warehouse, from memory).

Motorola has the clip-on camera idea, but is the Moto Z going to sell in large numbers?

Nokia can't get back in the game with products that are too niche, or they'll flop spectacularly.
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Old 07-12-2016, 03:41
The Lord Lucan
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It is that easy.. barely any of the sensors for mobile phones are bespoke and there are supports offering much higher MP sensors than currently being used. Plenty of power in the latest handsets. Enough to do background animations, 4K video whilst still able to process a whole frame silmtaniously and save it as a separate image i.e. 6S/7..

The issue is how much do you want to pay for the piece of software that allows it rather than the hardware.
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Old 07-12-2016, 03:52
russellelly
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Nokia had great designers back in a day when you could experiment and, almost, have fun. Clams, sliders, candybars and so on.

Now you're looking at a touchscreen and how to incorporate a big image sensor, or large speakers, but very little scope to do much more.
While I have fond memories of a number of Nokias back in the day, they had their fair share of misses too when they tried more 'unique' designs.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...l-with-circul/
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Old 07-12-2016, 07:31
jonmorris
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It is that easy.. barely any of the sensors for mobile phones are bespoke and there are supports offering much higher MP sensors than currently being used. Plenty of power in the latest handsets. Enough to do background animations, 4K video whilst still able to process a whole frame silmtaniously and save it as a separate image i.e. 6S/7..

The issue is how much do you want to pay for the piece of software that allows it rather than the hardware.
But Nokia would then be buying off the shelf like everyone else. How does it go the extra mile if it does this? Especially as even taking the latest Sony sensor doesn't mean great pictures, as the post processing is what really makes a great picture.
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Old 08-12-2016, 09:11
clonmult
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Indeed.. but they could easily buy the tech in and the Lumina Nokias were hardly fast, period. It was dealing with a 40 odd MP image though.
Yet the 808 with a cibsuderavky skiwer ARM11 could process an image in a tenth of the time it took the 1020 to do the same. Okay, it had custom silicon to handle that processing, I'm sure Nokia would have preferred to ship the 1020 with something similar, but WP didn't support anything like that.

Whilst many these days just use an "off the shelf" Sony/Samsung/Panasonic sensor, Nokia were responsible for requesting the sensors for the 808 and 1020 to be built specifically for these two devices. They were definitely not off the shelf units - if they were, they would have surfaced somewhere else by now.

Pretty sure that the manufacturing for those sensors has long since shut down.
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Old 10-12-2016, 21:53
LuvJamTarts
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Be interested to see where they are in a year or so. I've no interest in the apparent mid range devices they will re-launch with but if they do a flagship model at some point it could be one to look at. I used to work in mobile phone retail and remember arguing with the Nokia rep at the time that they had made a huge mistake not going with Android when it launched. I firmly believe if they had then they would still be a massive player in the market. Going to Windows exclusively was a massive mistake.

In the old days Nokia design with Android functionality would have been a big win. Whether that will still happen now with it essentially being Nokia name only will be interesting. Though i think i read somewhere they have got some of the Nokia designers in.
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Old 11-12-2016, 10:07
finbaar
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The Nokia name carries a certain cachet with an older section of the market who know no better. It will only help sell a limited number of devices but to be a success they need to beat or match devices like the OP3t.
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Old 11-12-2016, 10:26
Mustabuster
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Be interested to see where they are in a year or so. I've no interest in the apparent mid range devices they will re-launch with but if they do a flagship model at some point it could be one to look at. I used to work in mobile phone retail and remember arguing with the Nokia rep at the time that they had made a huge mistake not going with Android when it launched. I firmly believe if they had then they would still be a massive player in the market. Going to Windows exclusively was a massive mistake.

In the old days Nokia design with Android functionality would have been a big win. Whether that will still happen now with it essentially being Nokia name only will be interesting. Though i think i read somewhere they have got some of the Nokia designers in.
Back in this days Nokia still believed that they could still develop and push their own eco system with Maemo/Meego. They were still persisting with their S40 and S60 platforms so there was no room for adopting another parties platform. As for Windows Phone well thats because of Steven Elop.
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Old 11-12-2016, 13:18
Stereo Steve
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There is no doubt that for us old gits, Nokia was once the only real choice. Motorola and the rest had fairly obstructive OS and Nokia phones just worked and worked very well. The OS for what it was was deeply intuitive. Then came Symbian and they couldn't give it up, even in the face of death, they refused. Last one I have was I think an N73 (not 100% sure). Anyway it was bulletproof hardware with a superb camera for the time but I don't think I ever remembered how to send a text, the whole time I had it. The OS was a total pig and it made me sad that they couldn't see that and just admit defeat. Android was out at that time. They could have switched.

Yes, Nokia does have some emotional connection for us old and pointless has beens but it doesn't mean I would buy one just on that reason. They would have to get back to making top spec phones which just work. If I were them I would concentrate on the hardware and just put stock Android on it, like Moto do. Cheap as possible on the OS front. There is no need to do anything else and in fact it can be counter-productive as we have seen. None of this nonsense most Android makers use to ruin their products.
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Old 11-12-2016, 17:29
LuvJamTarts
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Back in this days Nokia still believed that they could still develop and push their own eco system with Maemo/Meego. They were still persisting with their S40 and S60 platforms so there was no room for adopting another parties platform. As for Windows Phone well thats because of Steven Elop.
Yes i know.

It was still a huge mistake to not go with Android. As i said.
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Old 11-12-2016, 18:06
blueisthecolour
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There is no doubt that for us old gits, Nokia was once the only real choice. Motorola and the rest had fairly obstructive OS and Nokia phones just worked and worked very well. The OS for what it was was deeply intuitive. Then came Symbian and they couldn't give it up, even in the face of death, they refused. Last one I have was I think an N73 (not 100% sure). Anyway it was bulletproof hardware with a superb camera for the time but I don't think I ever remembered how to send a text, the whole time I had it. The OS was a total pig and it made me sad that they couldn't see that and just admit defeat. Android was out at that time. They could have switched.

Yes, Nokia does have some emotional connection for us old and pointless has beens but it doesn't mean I would buy one just on that reason. They would have to get back to making top spec phones which just work. If I were them I would concentrate on the hardware and just put stock Android on it, like Moto do. Cheap as possible on the OS front. There is no need to do anything else and in fact it can be counter-productive as we have seen. None of this nonsense most Android makers use to ruin their products.
I had the N95, which in many ways was an excellent phone, just let down by the operating system.

I don't want to sound too cynical but surely this is about exploiting brand recognition rather than coming up with the next generation of mobile technology. They will do a bit of market research, try to come up with 'gimmick' and then sell a largely bog standard Andriod phone.
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Old 11-12-2016, 18:31
Hacker Harrier
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Nokia had great designers back in a day when you could experiment and, almost, have fun. Clams, sliders, candybars and so on.

Now you're looking at a touchscreen and how to incorporate a big image sensor, or large speakers, but very little scope to do much more.
Maybe they could have fun with form factors again, that would be a good start. A clamshell phone is probably less likely to suffer a cracked screen.
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Old 11-12-2016, 18:38
LuvJamTarts
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I had the N95, which in many ways was an excellent phone, just let down by the operating system.

I don't want to sound too cynical but surely this is about exploiting brand recognition rather than coming up with the next generation of mobile technology. They will do a bit of market research, try to come up with 'gimmick' and then sell a largely bog standard Andriod phone.
Loved my N95, was my last non android phone.
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Old 13-12-2016, 14:33
Stereo Steve
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I had the N95, which in many ways was an excellent phone, just let down by the operating system.

I don't want to sound too cynical but surely this is about exploiting brand recognition rather than coming up with the next generation of mobile technology. They will do a bit of market research, try to come up with 'gimmick' and then sell a largely bog standard Andriod phone.
Except they'll be clever and put stuff on it which means it won't work with VoLTE etc. etc.
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