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Daily Politics boils over as Andrew Neil rages at Tim Farron


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Old 03-12-2016, 12:25
CSJB
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There has been at least a dozen polls that show huge shifts towards remaining in the EU since the referendum. I don't have links offhand, but I know I'm right.
I will wait for your links before i respond.
I will be reminding you every day untill you provide them - that's every single day aurichie and I'm expecting at least 12
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Old 03-12-2016, 12:25
johnny_boi_UK
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Why should we get a referendum on which brexit path we should take when the eu has got to decide that and not parliament?
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Old 03-12-2016, 12:26
The Exiled Dub
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Neither did they vote for remain.

.
So it's basically unfinished business then.
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Old 03-12-2016, 12:31
Irritable Owl
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The polls show a significant majority now want to stay in the EU. Also remember a majority of eligible voters did not vote for brexit.
The polls showed a majority for remaining in the EU BEFORE the 23rd June.

Polling should be discontinued as a discredited industry. Ask Hillary Clinton what she thinks about them.
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Old 03-12-2016, 12:39
jjwales
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Not necessarily, it depends on the question.
We have already established (via the last referendum) that the British people want to leave the EU.
So surely any new question proposed by a referendum should be something like this :

Do you accept the new terms (whatever they may be) proposed by parliament

Or

Do you want to leave the EU in its entirety and trade on WTO tariffs

Any referendum offering a new deal or stay in the EU would be an attempt to subvert democracy and would leave the county in total dissary.

I should add, I don't think there should be a referendum of any kind, I'm happy for the government to try and get the best deal possible.
I agree with you on this. I don't want another referendum either, but it there was one it would have to be a choice of two Leave options.
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Old 03-12-2016, 12:48
luckylegs
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The polls showed a majority for remaining in the EU BEFORE the 23rd June.

Polling should be discontinued as a discredited industry. Ask Hillary Clinton what she thinks about them.
Agrees with this.

What a farce polls are.
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Old 03-12-2016, 12:53
jmclaugh
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Not necessarily, it depends on the question.
We have already established (via the last referendum) that the British people want to leave the EU.
So surely any new question proposed by a referendum should be something like this :

Do you accept the new terms (whatever they may be) proposed by parliament

Or

Do you want to leave the EU in its entirety and trade on WTO tariffs

Any referendum offering a new deal or stay in the EU would be an attempt to subvert democracy and would leave the county in total dissary.

I should add, I don't think there should be a referendum of any kind, I'm happy for the government to try and get the best deal possible.
I agree with what you say though the first question should read "Do you accept the terms negotiated by the government with the EU and approved by the EU and UK parliaments?" as there is no point offering an option unless it has been approved by all who need to.
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Old 03-12-2016, 12:59
Parker45
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Andrew Neil is like a dog with a bone. He gives both pro and anti Brexiteers a hard time.

Where I disagree with him is his oft stated assertion that both sides of the referendum campaign said we would have to leave the single market if we left the EU. There were plenty on the Leave side who suggested that the EU were bound to let us stay in the single market but without freedom of movement.
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Old 03-12-2016, 13:00
John146
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The polls show a significant majority now want to stay in the EU. Also remember a majority of eligible voters did not vote for brexit.

Are you sure, 51% to stay 49% to leave sounds like a slimmer majority in the referendum


Are yohttp://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-poll-majority-uk-remain-eu-theresa-may-article-50-second-referendum-latest-a7395811.htmlu
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Old 03-12-2016, 13:08
MuTron1
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Heartley-Brewer takes Olney to task in this interview and gets cut off by Olneys PR officer.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/739...Hartley-Brewer

It's funny when questioned democracy is a two way street and the liberals don't like it.
This is actually democracy in action, and the Lib Dems are using exactly the same tactic as UKIP did to force a referendum in the first place. The Conservatives know full well how fragile their majority is, and if they're going to lose all of their Remain majority constituencies to the Lib Dems, they've got problems. This will force them to have a rethink about their approach to the EU, and water things down

This is exactly how our democratic system reduces the tyranny of the majority, and extreme brexit ideologues, of which JHB is and always has been, find this a bit scary
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Old 03-12-2016, 13:34
Dan 54
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I will in an hour.
'taps fingers on table' waiting....
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Old 03-12-2016, 13:38
jmclaugh
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'taps fingers on table' waiting....
Is that for the post or news that eurichie has finally left the country as per he said he would following a vote to leave?
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Old 03-12-2016, 13:41
Dan 54
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Is that for the post or news that eurichie has finally left the country as per he said he would following a vote to leave?
If it was for the latter I'd have worn my fingerprints away by now...
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Old 03-12-2016, 14:04
Dan 54
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Ho hum...
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Old 03-12-2016, 14:07
Steve9214
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This is actually democracy in action, and the Lib Dems are using exactly the same tactic as UKIP did to force a referendum in the first place. The Conservatives know full well how fragile their majority is, and if they're going to lose all of their Remain majority constituencies to the Lib Dems, they've got problems. This will force them to have a rethink about their approach to the EU, and water things down

This is exactly how our democratic system reduces the tyranny of the majority, and extreme brexit ideologues, of which JHB is and always has been, find this a bit scary
Problem is with new constituencies coming into effect there are 2 issues.

Early election - Sitting Labour MP's who will lose their seats either due to UKIP or poor ratings of Labour under JC

Later election - with the new boundaries in place - Lot of MP's will lose their safe seats so no desire to have an election one second earlier than they have to.

This was one by election - I recall Peter Snow once saying that when they extrpolated one shock by-election result in the '80's, the only Tory MP left would have been Norman Fowler.

The only thing everyone can agree about this result is..... Zac Goldsmith screwed up !!
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Old 03-12-2016, 15:54
CSJB
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I will in an hour.
Come on aurichie, we are waiting......
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Old 03-12-2016, 16:08
Video Nasty
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Any time now aurichie.
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Old 03-12-2016, 16:22
Union Jock
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There has been at least a dozen polls that show huge shifts towards remaining in the EU since the referendum. I don't have links offhand, but I know I'm right.
Were these polls conducted in the country you're now living in because I haven't seen any in this one?
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Old 03-12-2016, 16:23
Elvisfan4eva
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That's a long hour. I'd like to see these polls too cos the last one, on 23rd June was OUT.
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Old 03-12-2016, 17:02
Dan 54
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Here's a quick poll.

A.aurichie has no polls to show.
Or
B.aurichie has no polls to show.
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Old 03-12-2016, 17:14
gemma-the-husky
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I have no doubt another referendum would give a far stronger majority in favour of leaving.

Now we know the only people who want to stay are the metropolitan elite, the il-liberal Anti-Democrats, their immigrant poodles, and their stooge judges.

And we also know the claims of Armageddon by Cameron, Osborne and Fred Karney, and all the other experts were just so much guff, so their scare tactics won't work.

Roll on the day the unwanted Europeans can go back home.

Theresa should get her finger out and send the letter signing A50 without requesting any approval.
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Old 03-12-2016, 17:24
Aye Up
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The polls show a significant majority now want to stay in the EU. Also remember a majority of eligible voters did not vote for brexit.
Your hour is up, where is the evidence?

This is actually democracy in action, and the Lib Dems are using exactly the same tactic as UKIP did to force a referendum in the first place. The Conservatives know full well how fragile their majority is, and if they're going to lose all of their Remain majority constituencies to the Lib Dems, they've got problems. This will force them to have a rethink about their approach to the EU, and water things down

This is exactly how our democratic system reduces the tyranny of the majority, and extreme brexit ideologues, of which JHB is and always has been, find this a bit scary
Oh bless you, even if the Tories lost some of their seats to a remain campaign from the LibDems, they would hoover up seats in the North where brexit support is more entrenched

Doesn't matter what the polls say right now, the Tories are the most popular party in England right now, the Liberals are not, and their tactics they are employing right now will be seen as anti-democratic.

You do understand should the May force an early election, the Tories would win by a landslide?

See I used to dislike Corbyn the most of all political leaders, however that man has a sense of duty and honour to respect the result of 23rd June. They have said they won't frustrate a motion or bill invoking article 50. Now its Tim Farron. Parliament should of course have a say and be able to scrutinise the outcomes of any negotiations. It maybe the case that Westminster needs a vote on the final treaty, however they won't be able to stop us leaving the EU.
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Old 03-12-2016, 17:47
GusGus
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I cannot stand Neil, never could
Election tomorrow I would LibDem to stay in the EU but I prefer Clegg. Farron is a bigot with his religious views against same sex marriage. Not very liberal or democratic
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Old 03-12-2016, 18:00
The_Bonobo
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Nothing strange about it, liberals are proposing another referendum on the terms of the exit......if we don't like them w stay as we are.....which completely goes against the first referendum. Heartley-Brewer makes the point that Olney had less than 50% of the vote, Richmond Park should be allowed a second election to validate that result.

It's all or nothing with democracy you can't have anything in between.
BIB Which they will. At the General Election.
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Old 03-12-2016, 18:05
SULLA
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The wind is with them. I thought Farron was taking spectacular risks in the aftermath of the referendum with his views and vowing to fight on. But it appears he's onto a winner and even I would vote for a lib dem if they stood against our brexiteer Tory MP on a remain in the EU message. I have voted conservative my entire life, but I would sacrifice that badge of honour in a heartbeat if it helps stop brexit.
You will not have to scrifice anything. It will be done and dusted before 2020

So Olney can vote against article 50 as the by-election gives her a mandate but the referendum vote apparently doesn't give a mandate to vote for it. Perhaps the other 8 Lib Dem MPs should resign and trigger by-elections to find out if their constituents feel the same.
Great idea

So how do you frame the question?

If people reject the deal does that mean the status quo prevails and we stay in the EU or does it mean people think the deal is too soft. Because remainers may vote against to keep us in the EU and leavers may do so as they think the deal means we aren't really leaving at all.

So if we reject the deal in a second referendum what does that mean?

We voted to leave the EU and it's now for parliament and the government to deliver on a deal.
If people reject the deal in a referendum it would mean that we left without a deal

The polls showed a majority for remaining in the EU BEFORE the 23rd June.

Polling should be discontinued as a discredited industry. Ask Hillary Clinton what she thinks about them.
The polls were right. She did get more votes than Trump

Are you sure, 51% to stay 49% to leave sounds like a slimmer majority in the referendum


Are yohttp://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-poll-majority-uk-remain-eu-theresa-may-article-50-second-referendum-latest-a7395811.htmlu
The 49% contained a lot of victims of the scare campaign.
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