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I got an A in standard grade French and I can't get by in France


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Old 03-12-2016, 20:37
muggins14
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O level grades were given as numbers too. I have a 3 in French. Still remember a lot even though it was over 40 years ago.
My O Levels were in graded with letters, the GCE's were graded with numbers. This was in 1979, 80 and 81
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Old 03-12-2016, 20:56
RobinOfLoxley
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I got an 'A' in French and my teacher asked me to stay on and do it in 6th Form.
Sadly I couldn't. I was doing Maths/Physics/Computer Science. So my French is terrible and I don't have the ear for it (when In France)

The same Teacher did get my Sister as a 6th Former and she then studied Modern Languages at Uni (with a few months in France and Germany)

Then she worked in the South of France flogging Timeshares for a year.

She's completely fluent now, to the extent that French people think she is French.

So Practice and Immersion and Perseverance are the key.
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Old 03-12-2016, 21:25
muggins14
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I got an 'A' in French and my teacher asked me to stay on and do it in 6th Form.
Sadly I couldn't. I was doing Maths/Physics/Computer Science. So my French is terrible and I don't have the ear for it (when In France)

The same Teacher did get my Sister as a 6th Former and she then studied Modern Languages at Uni (with a few months in France and Germany)

Then she worked in the South of France flogging Timeshares for a year.

She's completely fluent now, to the extent that French people think she is French.

So Practice and Immersion and Perseverance are the key.
In the 60's my Uncle went to live and work in Switzerland and then moved to live in the South of France. He's been there so long now that nobody knows he's English. I asked him if he dreams in French, he does.

He couldn't speak any when he went to Switzerland.
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Old 03-12-2016, 21:36
blueisthecolour
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This was my main gripe with school as well! I spent 5 YEARS studying French - 5 years - and got a grade B at GCSE, yet when I went to Paris the same year no one could understand a word I was trying to say and I couldn't understand them. I wasn't expecting to be fluid in the language, just being able to ask where the nearest toilets would have been good.

What on earth was the point of it? A brain dead Premier League footballer can play abroad for 6 months and learn the language, why spend so much of your education learning something that has zero benefit unless you commit to learning it properly.
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Old 03-12-2016, 21:40
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I can read Spanish reasonably well, but I struggle to understand what Spanish speakers are saying when I visit Spanish speaking countries, unless they speak extremely slowly and in basic Spanish for me.

It comes down to the only way most of us can really become fluent in a foreign language is living where its spoken, so its all around us and it becomes second nature. I am sure if the OP moved to France they would soon pick it up.
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Old 03-12-2016, 21:46
WhatJoeThinks
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Passing a GCSE in a language and being able to speak it fluently and properly are two different things.

School teaching of languages is designed to get you to pass the exams, with the purpose of making the school look good in the league tables. It's taught in a very regimented way.

I'd forgotten most of the French and Spanish I learnt at school within months of leaving.

To learn a language, you either need to go through outside school teaching, or actually live in the country for a while.
That would be the DS interpretation of academia. The reality is that schools teach you enough about a language at GCSE level to prepare you for A-level studies and so on, like the rungs of a ladder.

In the same way, school won't prepare you for immediate employment as a physicist, mathematician, etc. but neither are they teaching these subjects at GCSE level "with the purpose of making the school look good in the league tables". They're preparing you for higher education.
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Old 03-12-2016, 21:51
LostFool
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This was my main gripe with school as well! I spent 5 YEARS studying French - 5 years - and got a grade B at GCSE, yet when I went to Paris the same year no one could understand a word I was trying to say and I couldn't understand them. I wasn't expecting to be fluid in the language, just being able to ask where the nearest toilets would have been good.
That says a lot about the standard of foreign language teaching in this country and the level of proficiency they expect in exams. I got grade A French at GCSE (goodness knows how) yet after 5 years of lessons I could hardly order a coffee in a Parisian cafe, Young people in other European countries are expected to have a decent level of English at the same age. You certainly wouldn't get an A or B in English in a Dutch or Swedish school if all you could say was "where are the toilets?"
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Old 03-12-2016, 21:57
WhatJoeThinks
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A lot of people seem to be blaming 'the system' for their own inability. I only got a C in GCSE French and I've found it pretty useful. Yes, it is much more difficult to listen to a French speaker than it is to talk to them, but such is life. It's hardly the teacher's fault. Get yourself a Linguaphone course if you really care.
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Old 03-12-2016, 22:04
kitty86
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A lot of people seem to be blaming 'the system' for their own inability. I only got a C in GCSE French and I've found it pretty useful. Yes, it is much more difficult to listen to a French speaker than it is to talk to them, but such is life. It's hardly the teacher's fault.
That's what I was about to say, I was in France a few weeks back and even with my D in GCSE French almost 15 years ago I did OK. Granted I was in Disneyland so it's very different to rural France, but even when the person initially spoke to me in French I could pick out words. Usually they would realise I was English and ask again but would be impressed I had understood a little.

It was always amazing to hear the Disneyland workers switch between languages whilst speaking to different people especially If you'd spoken to them in English at first. They were fluent, would never have known they were British if you hadn't heard it.
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Old 03-12-2016, 22:05
spiney2
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I did religious knowledge at school, still not sure i'll get into heaven ......
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Old 03-12-2016, 22:08
Psychosis
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The French are actually very good about non-speakers trying to learn. I was in a queue in a tobac buying a pack of marlboro and the assistant could not understand my version of malboro. The people in the line behind me, buying newspapers, helped me procounce the word.
Good lord, no! I've never known a country full of people who are so angry when you speak French that is less than perfect. I've been to a lot of countries and I always learn some simple phrases and try my best to get by in that language. France is the only country where I will do everything in my power to avoid communicating verbally because every single person I've ever spoken to has responded badly to my attempts to speak French.

You're never going to speak at a native level from a GCSE. a) they speak too fast and b) there are so many different dialects and colloquialisms that you can't learn them all.
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Old 03-12-2016, 22:16
WhatJoeThinks
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I did religious knowledge at school, still not sure i'll get into heaven ......
That speaks volumes about the standard of religious education in this bloody country and the level of proficiency they expect in exams! *huff-puff*

In European countries, pupils that have studied religion are practically ordained by the time they leave school.
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Old 03-12-2016, 22:36
Ovalteenie
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Good lord, no! I've never known a country full of people who are so angry when you speak French that is less than perfect. I've been to a lot of countries and I always learn some simple phrases and try my best to get by in that language. France is the only country where I will do everything in my power to avoid communicating verbally because every single person I've ever spoken to has responded badly to my attempts to speak French.

You're never going to speak at a native level from a GCSE. a) they speak too fast and b) there are so many different dialects and colloquialisms that you can't learn them all.
I thought they would appreciate you making an effort? That at least you don't start off in English at them?
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Old 03-12-2016, 22:40
daisy_johns
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Having lived in various parts of France for 13 years, I can only speak of my experience. I had not done any French before then as my CSE French teacher went off sick and never returned.

Generally, if you try to speak French most French people I have come across appreciate that. I haven't found anyone irritated by my lack of French.

I speak enough French to get by, my daughter who has been here since aged 8 years is bilingual and also speaks Chinese. I wish I could, although I do sometimes dream in French.

My French is no way good enough, but I try, and usually manage to tackle French beaurocracy. In my experience, if you ask a French person parlez vous Anglaise, they will always reply non. But, during the conversation in my French (I say my french cos I've invented my own system 😄 , they actually do speak some English so it's a case of Franglaise.

Just go for it, don't be embarrassed.
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Old 03-12-2016, 23:12
neo_wales
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even if you can speak good french, the French will still find some reason not to understand you if you are not French. a mate of mine used to go to France a fair bit as a lorry driver and he speaks a load of different languages and he told me he have never known people like it that even when he speaks French they still seem to not want to understand him.

Italy, Germany and other countries are fine.
What a load of bullocks noise747...another 'mate' problem LOL

GCSE? it means nothing in reality...its another Mickey Mouse ticket given out to UK children in the hope of empowering them... they should all be scrapped. http://www.ibo.org/ is the way forward for better Schools in the UK.
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Old 03-12-2016, 23:17
Fizix
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This was my main gripe with school as well! I spent 5 YEARS studying French - 5 years - and got a grade B at GCSE, yet when I went to Paris the same year no one could understand a word I was trying to say and I couldn't understand them. I wasn't expecting to be fluid in the language, just being able to ask where the nearest toilets would have been good.

What on earth was the point of it? A brain dead Premier League footballer can play abroad for 6 months and learn the language, why spend so much of your education learning something that has zero benefit unless you commit to learning it properly.

It's because of how we teach it. You didn't "learn French", you studied French. In 5 years of learning French you should be really advanced, fluent even.

The problem is, the kind of things you have to do in order to learn a language, half or more of the class simply won't bother to do, or the school cannot do.

So instead you "study" the language using poor techniques (but that most people will do), and come out of it with very little language skill as a result, but a good grade for studying it effectively.
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Old 03-12-2016, 23:19
razorback Tony
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You've learnt standard French, not dialects and colloquialisms (local lingo), which is where the problem may lie.

Tu as raison mon ami.
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Old 03-12-2016, 23:23
Fizix
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If you're vocab is pretty good, then spend some time doing listening comprehension and shadowing.

Listening comprehension just means to sit back and listen to stuff in French, tuning your ear into it. You should start from the beginning, slow and basic stuff you can understand, and ramp it up gradually. You'll normally have a translation and analysis afterwards if the audio is part of a "course".

Shadowing is where you write down what is being said, then speak over it (even if you don't know what's being said*), and try to match it.

* although you're supposed to look up words you don't know.
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Old 03-12-2016, 23:48
renard gris
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my daughter who has been here since aged 8 years is bilingual and also speaks Chinese. I wish I could
Have you noticed how bi-lingual or multi-lingual children seem to effortlessly switch between the different languages they speak/understand.
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Old 04-12-2016, 00:29
jra
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My O Levels were in graded with letters, the GCE's were graded with numbers. This was in 1979, 80 and 81
Interesting. I did my O Levels in 1980 and the grades were A to E (not my results). A Levels I did in 1982 and again were graded A to E (not my results).
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Old 04-12-2016, 00:37
jra
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Tu as raison mon ami.
Thanks, though I had to Google Translate, my French is that good. I did German to O Level, not French.

Verstehen sie?
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Old 04-12-2016, 01:39
bart4858
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You've learnt standard French, not dialects and colloquialisms (local lingo), which is where the problem may lie.
I know a bit of a Italian, and have great difficulty understanding someone in a language class speaking in a stilted manner, with the wrong accent, dodgy pronunciation and lack of natural flow compared with a native speaker.

Perhaps that's more the trouble than colloquialisms or dialect.

(I can't speak French at all, the few bits I know I just write down the words rather than attempt to use speech. But if people switch to English then I don't usually complain! It's better that they do it rather than my forcing it.)
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Old 04-12-2016, 02:27
Welsh-lad
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I'm in Paris for the weekend and I'm struggling to get by. I can speak basic phrasebook French but when they reply in rapid French I haven't a clue what they are saying. At FNAC in Forum Des Halles, I offered too much money and the guy gave me back the extra €20 note and smiled and said a big long sentence and I had no idea what he was saying and i just nodded foolishly.

Also despite my best efforts they can tell immediately I'm not a native speaker and they switch to English, while I try to be courteous by attempting to speak French...

Is there something wrong with the French that is taught at school? It bears little resemblance to how real French people speak the language
This is because MFL teaching has become a complete joke.
No subject has been dumbed down to the same degree as MFL has over the last thirty years.
The way it is taught is prescriptive and superficial, and frankly not fit for purpose.
Not the teachers' fault - the blame lies with the curriculum requirements (or lack thereof) and with the examination boards.

French used to be a tough subject, focused on grammar, oracy and even literature.
It is now a series of dismal controlled assessments focused on phrasebook French, writing about your holiday, describing your school and favourite subjects etc.
No wonder no-one takes it anymore.

Sorry that your schooling let you down OP. It's ridiculous that taking a GCSE (which is quite an invesment of time and resources) did not lead to basic fluency.
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Old 04-12-2016, 02:33
Welsh-lad
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That would be the DS interpretation of academia. The reality is that schools teach you enough about a language at GCSE level to prepare you for A-level studies and so on, like the rungs of a ladder.

In the same way, school won't prepare you for immediate employment as a physicist, mathematician, etc. but neither are they teaching these subjects at GCSE level "with the purpose of making the school look good in the league tables". They're preparing you for higher education.
I think realwales has it pretty spot-on. Schools are exam factories and have become a gloomy assembly line. And I say that as a teacher.
I would amend one thing. He said schools did this to 'look good in the league tables'
Not quite. They do it because if they don't look good in the league tables they will face the tyranny of Ofsted, monitoring visits, special measures. Hell.
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Old 04-12-2016, 02:36
BirdyBee
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You should let the funky music do the talking.

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