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Cafe owner won't take the new £5 note


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Old 05-12-2016, 17:12
johnF1971
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It's just an incredibly stupid oversight on the part of
the Bank of England, and I wonder how they couldn't have predicted such a backlash.
Perhaps because other countries like Australia and Canada have been using these sorts of bank notes for years and none of their vegetarian citizens have ever complained about them?

Maybe some UK vegetarians are a bit more precious?
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Old 05-12-2016, 21:24
SmoggyTheTowny
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It seems that meat eaters like to harp on about how it's their 'choice' if they want to eat meat, and it's vegans' 'choice' to avoid animal products. But when you put killed animal products into currency you're taking away our choice to avoid them, or at the very least making life unnecessarily difficult for us. Maybe you think that's a good thing but that's just hypocrisy.
Boo fricking hoo! Animal products have multiple uses, most for practical purposes.
You CHOOSING to not eat meat or not use any product from an animal is not a good enough reason to change any manufacturing process.

Not eating meat or using animal products is your choice, there is nothing wrong with it. You're the one making that choice, so it is for you to bare the consequence of that choice, if it means you have to sometimes do things you don't like, that is your problem.
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Old 05-12-2016, 21:47
Flash525
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I hope she has the message in clear plain view outside her cafe, so that customers unfortunate to only be armed with fivers, don't waste their time waiting for a cup of tea inside.
The trick would surely be to go to the café armed only with 5 of these new £5 notes, no spare change, no credit/debit card either.

Either you're getting a free coffee and cake, or she's accepting the payment she presently refuses.
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Old 05-12-2016, 22:14
joshua321
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Boo fricking hoo! Animal products have multiple uses, most for practical purposes.
You CHOOSING to not eat meat or not use any product from an animal is not a good enough reason to change any manufacturing process.

Not eating meat or using animal products is your choice, there is nothing wrong with it. You're the one making that choice, so it is for you to bare the consequence of that choice, if it means you have to sometimes do things you don't like, that is your problem.
And you're making the 'choice' to eat meat and use products derived from killed animals. Why should you be free to make that choice but then deprive us of our choice, because everyone has to use currency? It's not like there's an alternative until we have a cashless society.

What you're basically saying is that people who don't want animals to be killed can't participate fully in society, because the majority doesn't care. Well that's just you being awkward, as the manufacturing process could have quite easily avoided the use killed animal products. It's also sneaky to slip it in without telling us, like those despicable people who get off on pretending the food they're serving is vegetarian and then laugh when someone haplessly eats it and tells them it was meat all along.

Anyway it looks like the Bank of England agrees with us that it made a mistake.
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Old 05-12-2016, 22:24
WhatJoeThinks
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And you're making the 'choice' to eat meat and use products derived from animals. Why should you be free to make that choice but then deprive us of our choice, because everyone has to use currency? It's not like there's an alternative until we have a cashless society.

Anyway it looks like the Bank of England agrees with us.
I eat a variety of animals, and I'm happy to use derivative products such as leather. I wouldn't want them to have suffered in any way though. That's where I draw the line.

Far more important than whether or not you eat animals or use animal products though is how much fossil fuel you're using, or necessitating the use of. If I had a choice I wouldn't eat or use anything that has required the burning of fossil fuels, but I'm not free to make that choice.

Given that all of the new bank notes are said to have used just half a cow's worth of tallow I think the 'vegetarian' stance is a bit pathetic. The constitution of our atmosphere is far more important than half a cow, I'm sure you agree, but you're not complaining about being 'forced' to use fossil fuels (to the tune of several tonnes per year).

Why is that?
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Old 05-12-2016, 22:30
joshua321
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I eat a variety of animals, and I'm happy to use derivative products such as leather. I wouldn't want them to have suffered in any way though. That's where I draw the line.

Far more important than whether or not you eat animals or use animal products though is how much fossil fuel you're using, or necessitating the use of. If I had a choice I wouldn't eat or use anything that has required the burning of fossil fuels, but I'm not free to make that choice.

Given that all of the new bank notes have between them are said to used just half a cow's worth of tallow I think the vegetarian stance is a bit pathetic. The constitution of our atmosphere is far more important than half a cow, I'm sure you agree, but you're not complaining about being 'forced' to fossil fuels (to the tune of several tonnes per year). Why is that?
You don't want them to 'have suffered in any way' - I suggest not visiting a farm or an abbatoir any time soon. I do complain about fossil fuels, along with lactose in medications, animal testing, all sorts of things. I pay extra for a greener energy plan but unfortunately the national grid still relies mostly on non-renewables and it's very hard to avoid however much you protest.

But in this particular case it would have been so easy to think for just a second before manufacturing the notes. It's just thoughtless, and rather arrogant to think that people should just put up with it.

Why when someone is doing any small compassionate/ ethical thing, rather than nothing at all, do others enjoy putting them down with 'but what about....' as if they shouldn't even be trying?
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Old 05-12-2016, 22:34
WhatJoeThinks
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You don't want them to ' have suffered in any way' - I suggest not visiting a farm or an abbatoir any time soon. I do complain about fossil fuels, along with lactose in medications, animal testing, all sorts of things. I pay extra for a greener energy plan but unfortunately the national grid still relies mostly on non-renewables and it's very hard to avoid however much you protest.

But in this particular case it would have been so easy to think for just a second before manufacturing the notes. It's just thoughtless, and rather arrogant to think that people should just put up with it.
Isn't it rather arrogant to expect this 'thoughtless' error to be remedied at the expense of the planet?
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Old 05-12-2016, 23:57
Fried Kickin
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Perhaps because other countries like Australia and Canada have been using these sorts of bank notes for years and none of their vegetarian citizens have ever complained about them?

Maybe some UK vegetarians are a bit more precious?
We're not called Whingeing Poms for nothing
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Old 06-12-2016, 00:07
joshua321
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Isn't it rather arrogant to expect this 'thoughtless' error to be remedied at the expense of the planet?
I imagine most of the proposed new notes are not even in circulation yet. As producing money is a continuous process, I'm not persuaded that making a change to the formula will result in an increase in greenhouse emissions. If you have data on this by all means show it, but I suspect you might be trying to construct an argument for the sake of it as an attempt at satirising the argument I made.
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Old 06-12-2016, 00:18
SULLA
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Send them all to me
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Old 06-12-2016, 00:33
WhatJoeThinks
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I imagine most of the proposed new notes are not even in circulation yet. As producing money is a continuous process, I'm not persuaded that making a change to the formula will result in an increase in greenhouse emissions. If you have data on this by all means show it, but I suspect you might be trying to construct an argument for the sake of it as an attempt at satirising the argument I made.
I thought you were suggesting that the ones in circulation should be replaced.
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Old 06-12-2016, 00:39
joshua321
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I thought you were suggesting that the ones in circulation should be replaced.
They will be anyway in a few years if the formula is changed. I don't know how they could get the current ones out of circulation unless they changed the design and said that the old ones wouldn't be accepted after a certain date, but people might still carry on using them anyway.

I think the best we can hope for is a change to the formula and gradual phasing out, with people trying to avoid them until then. Do you really care about the environmental impact or are you just trying to come up with an opposing argument?
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Old 06-12-2016, 00:45
WhatJoeThinks
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They will be anyway in a few years if the formula is changed. I don't know how they could get the current ones out of circulation unless they changed the design and said that the old ones wouldn't be accepted after a certain date, but people might still carry on using them anyway.

I think the best we can hope for is a change to the formula and gradual phasing out, with people trying to avoid them until then. Do you really care about the environmental impact or are you just trying to come up with an opposing argument?
It's called 'debating', and yes I do care. It's a bit rich to accuse me of looking for an argument considering the subject matter.

I'll leave you be.
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Old 06-12-2016, 00:58
joshua321
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It's called 'debating', and yes I do care. It's a bit rich to accuse me of looking for an argument considering the subject matter.

I'll leave you be.
I was only asking, because that's what happens a lot of times on similar threads when someone decides they think something is trivial, so tries to come up with a counter-argument that they actually don't care about and also think is trivial, but pretend they do passionately. Often this is done as an attempt at satire but more often than not it makes the person look like they don't care about much at all.

I wasn't saying that's what you were doing, I was just wondering.
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Old 06-12-2016, 06:42
dee123
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I just read this:

"Professor David Solomon, who developed the first polymer bank note in circulation in Australia in 1988, said the new £5 notes contain “trivial” amounts of tallow, an animal fat which is also found in candles and soap."
Australia has had them since the 80's. Are we really that far behind?
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Old 06-12-2016, 06:58
Pumping Iron
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And you're making the 'choice' to eat meat and use products derived from killed animals. Why should you be free to make that choice but then deprive us of our choice, because everyone has to use currency? It's not like there's an alternative until we have a cashless society.

What you're basically saying is that people who don't want animals to be killed can't participate fully in society, because the majority doesn't care. Well that's just you being awkward, as the manufacturing process could have quite easily avoided the use killed animal products. It's also sneaky to slip it in without telling us, like those despicable people who get off on pretending the food they're serving is vegetarian and then laugh when someone haplessly eats it and tells them it was meat all along.

Anyway it looks like the Bank of England agrees with us that it made a mistake.
There is an alternative, using card over cash. What's the problem with that?
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Old 06-12-2016, 07:07
joshua321
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There is an alternative, using card over cash. What's the problem with that?
Not everywhere accepts cards, or charges for small payments.
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Old 06-12-2016, 07:49
LostFool
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There is an alternative, using card over cash. What's the problem with that?
How can you be 100% sure that none of the plastics and inks on the card have a trace of animal byproducts? (Not counting the fact that plastic comes from oil which is itself a product of dead animals)
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Old 06-12-2016, 08:00
Pumping Iron
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Not everywhere accepts cards, or charges for small payments.
The vast majority do though and for small payments, why not just use coins?

Basically it wouldn't take much effort to avoid the new fivers, if you could be bothered that is.
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Old 06-12-2016, 08:08
Pumping Iron
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How can you be 100% sure that none of the plastics and inks on the card have a trace of animal byproducts? (Not counting the fact that plastic comes from oil which is itself a product of dead animals)
I can't be sure as I don't know what exactly goes into making cards. I don't see how using oil would piss a vegan off though, I'd have though there's more likely to be higher animal content in commercially grown crops.
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Old 06-12-2016, 08:36
MAW
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I can't be sure as I don't know what exactly goes into making cards. I don't see how using oil would piss a vegan off though, I'd have though there's more likely to be higher animal content in commercially grown crops.
There might be dinosaur products in the oil.
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Old 06-12-2016, 08:42
Dan Fortesque
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And you're making the 'choice' to eat meat and use products derived from killed animals. Why should you be free to make that choice but then deprive us of our choice, because everyone has to use currency? It's not like there's an alternative until we have a cashless society.

What you're basically saying is that people who don't want animals to be killed can't participate fully in society, because the majority doesn't care. Well that's just you being awkward, as the manufacturing process could have quite easily avoided the use killed animal products. It's also sneaky to slip it in without telling us, like those despicable people who get off on pretending the food they're serving is vegetarian and then laugh when someone haplessly eats it and tells them it was meat all along.

Anyway it looks like the Bank of England agrees with us that it made a mistake.
Good post.
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Old 06-12-2016, 10:39
HarrisonMarks
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I must have walked past that cafe lots of times without knowing that it was there. Now that I know it's there I'll enjoy walking past much more.
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Old 06-12-2016, 11:48
LostFool
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I must have walked past that cafe lots of times without knowing that it was there. Now that I know it's there I'll enjoy walking past much more.
Same here. I have been in the Cambridge area 15 year and must have walked past hundreds of times without noticing it. I much prefer the Chop House restaurant a few doors down which does traditional no-nonsense British meat dishes.
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Old 06-12-2016, 14:57
rob_knight
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Anyway it looks like the Bank of England agrees with us that it made a mistake.
The only mistake the B of E have made is pandering to a bunch of cry babies!
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