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Is Doctor Who Losing People's Interest?


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Old 04-01-2017, 18:32
thorr
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Absolutely. Two of my best friends from school are (or were, as one of them went on trial for the phone hacking stuff and I think has had to change career) very high up in the national press. One's the chief economics editor at one of the biggest papers. He didn't even do economics A-level lol.

Another friend used to do nationally published games reviews as a sideline. The thing is, he often didn't even play the games. He just got the general reaction from other writers and then, because he's an engaging writer, would write good copy and make up a score.



I don't know how or if it makes a difference, but I think it's pretty obvious from heavy pointers in much of his work that Moffat is a Freemason. They don't tend to criticise each other too much publicly, not suggesting that's the 'reason' - just saying and throwing that one out there as a possible factor.
What heavy pointers suggest Moffat is a Freemason? I've been a Freemason for 20 years, and I'm struggling to see what you are alluding to.
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Old 04-01-2017, 19:23
nattoyaki
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What heavy pointers suggest Moffat is a Freemason? I've been a Freemason for 20 years, and I'm struggling to see what you are alluding to.
What degree are you?
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Old 04-01-2017, 19:38
thorr
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What degree are you?
Craft lodges only have 3 - I'm a Past Master in the craft, a member of the HRA, and holder of the 18 degree in RC.
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Old 04-01-2017, 19:39
thorr
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So what makes you think Moffat is a Freemason?
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Old 04-01-2017, 19:59
Hestia
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Someone can probably do some correlation somewhere, if it hasn't already been done, about the relativity or otherwise in the 'decline' in Doctor Who viewers. There was an article in the paper yesterday about just how much Christmas Day live viewing has gone down over the past decade or more, with the highest rated programme also having the least amount of viewers over the years to achieve the No 1 slot. That being the case, Doctor Who actually seems to have held on to a fair percentage of its viewers by comparison.
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Old 04-01-2017, 20:00
nattoyaki
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Craft lodges only have 3 - I'm a Past Master in the craft, a member of the HRA, and holder of the 18 degree in RC.
So what makes you think Moffat is a Freemason?
Some of that doesn't mean much to me. But, OK let's simplify things then for the benefit of all and not to derail the thread too much.

There is a lot of occult symbolism in Moffat's stuff across both Who and Sherlock. If you don't see the blatant Freemasonic pillars/checkerboard/Templar etc motifs then you've got eyes wide closed imo.

My point really is that he's 'cosy' with other people in the business, for one reason or another - and that probably includes a fair amount of the media who seem to rate his stuff higher than the viewers on the whole (which was the issue being discussed).
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Old 04-01-2017, 20:05
Michael_Eve
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Personally, I think we've entered the realms of fantasy here.....Jones.

I was a 'Three Degree Black Belt', btw. Until 'the incident', when my Degree and belt were removed. The former was shameful, the latter embarrassing as it was holding up me trousers at the time.
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Old 04-01-2017, 21:33
thorr
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Some of that doesn't mean much to me. But, OK let's simplify things then for the benefit of all and not to derail the thread too much.

There is a lot of occult symbolism in Moffat's stuff across both Who and Sherlock. If you don't see the blatant Freemasonic pillars/checkerboard/Templar etc motifs then you've got eyes wide closed imo.

My point really is that he's 'cosy' with other people in the business, for one reason or another - and that probably includes a fair amount of the media who seem to rate his stuff higher than the viewers on the whole (which was the issue being discussed).


So, nothing substantial or any evidence to back your claim up, only that he is 'cosy' with other in the business. You could lay that claim to any number of people in any business or industry! In the same way I'm friends with people I work with....
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Old 04-01-2017, 21:34
saladfingers81
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This is another level of nonsense! We already had the 'BBC paying off reviewers' drivel during S9. And now people have to resort to Masonic conspiracy theories to explain why critics enjoy his work! An absolute new low. Albeit a hilarious one. It's really difficult to remain in line with the T & C's at moments like this. I'm really trying but...jesus wept.
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Old 04-01-2017, 21:49
thorr
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This is another level of nonsense! We already had the 'BBC paying off reviewers' drivel during S9. And now people have to resort to Masonic conspiracy theories to explain why critics enjoy his work! An absolute new low. Albeit a hilarious one. It's really difficult to remain in line with the T & C's at moments like this. I'm really trying but...jesus wept.
Agreed.
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Old 04-01-2017, 22:00
Lord Smexy
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Hi, Lord Smexy, and Happy New Year!

I didn't mean to suggest a TV critic's opinion is less valid because he or she is a fan of a particular TV writer. But I think context is important, and it is worth reflecting on why we still have such overwhelmingly positive reviews for Doctor Who during a period where we have seen a significant decline in the show's viewership and (in my opinion) its popular appeal. For me, Heaven Sent remains a perfect example of this divergence.

Also important to remember that most TV critics aren't full time TV critics. Its not their job, it's just something they do on top of lots of other writing. Journalism is overwhelmingly a job where you are a jack of all trades/master of none. So I wouldn't ever consider a TV critic to be an expert in TV writing. When I was a journalist I was often asked to write film reviews, restaurant reviews and even book reviews. And I would certainly not call myself an expert in any of those fields.
I'm just saying, he has a lot of love in the area of TV criticism (although I don't think it's because of freemasonry).
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Old 04-01-2017, 22:10
Sam_Gee1
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Someone can probably do some correlation somewhere, if it hasn't already been done, about the relativity or otherwise in the 'decline' in Doctor Who viewers. There was an article in the paper yesterday about just how much Christmas Day live viewing has gone down over the past decade or more, with the highest rated programme also having the least amount of viewers over the years to achieve the No 1 slot. That being the case, Doctor Who actually seems to have held on to a fair percentage of its viewers by comparison.
Less people watch TV now that is for sure, that is why it should be made in comparison with other shows to compare the drop off.
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Old 04-01-2017, 22:11
Lord Smexy
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No, I've never written anything that would lead someone to that conclusion. See my reply to Granny's post a few posts ago for an accurate take on my views.

My gripes are with the people who have a go at other people who don't like Moffat's work. Instead of attacking other posters they should say why they liked it or why criticisms may be harsh. But that it too much hard work for a lot of people, much easier to just have a go at other posters. And posts like yours about Sherlock that claimed that everyone was saying how bad it was without providing reasons when reasons were clearly given.

I have never posted about a programme whist it is still being broadcast.
My quote:

I'd be interested to hear why people didn't enjoy it, but I couldn't find out amongst all the "worst thing ever" comments.
Meaning yes, there were some civil responses from people about why they didn't like the episode, but they were buried under all the silliness and whining.

Honestly, Boz, if you read a little closer at what people type you probably wouldn't get wound up by so many posters.

Thinking back to some of your previous posts though, openly attempting to mock me because I prefer Moffat to RTD, or labelling people fanboys just for enjoying Moffat's work, makes your gripes seem a little... hypocritical? I don't buy the whole "I'm doing it for the integrity of opinions" angle coming from you of all people.
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Old 04-01-2017, 22:14
Lord Smexy
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This is another level of nonsense! We already had the 'BBC paying off reviewers' drivel during S9. And now people have to resort to Masonic conspiracy theories to explain why critics enjoy his work! An absolute new low. Albeit a hilarious one. It's really difficult to remain in line with the T & C's at moments like this. I'm really trying but...jesus wept.
I think Moffat is a little fascinated by freemasonry and uses it in some of his work, but that doesn't necessarily mean he is one. In the same way Herman Melville wasn't really a whale, even though he wrote about one.
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Old 04-01-2017, 22:20
GrahameSteele
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Its the illuminutty...
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Old 04-01-2017, 22:27
Lady of Traken
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I think Moffat is a little fascinated by freemasonry and uses it in some of his work, but that doesn't necessarily mean he is one. In the same way Herman Melville wasn't really a whale, even though he wrote about one.
This thread went a little off piste the last couple of pages.... highly amusing though to read .
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Old 04-01-2017, 23:11
Sam_Gee1
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I absolutely hated Heaven Sent and was just a little bit more than staggered by the acclaim it got! I was really shocked by that.
To be honest i'm more surprised of the disliking of that episode.
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Old 04-01-2017, 23:40
spiney2
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Eventually, The Dr will awaken from his long nightmare, greet romana and adric in tardis control room, and nu hoo will revert to old hoo, 4 parter serials with wobbly wooden scenery ......
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Old Yesterday, 06:38
GDK
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Make your mind up! BIB is your reply to my reply to Granny!
It's perfectly clear that, for me, Granny's post is ok. Your repeated use of "fanboy"? Not so much.

Let's not get distracted.
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Old Yesterday, 07:18
Mulett
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I'm just saying, he has a lot of love in the area of TV criticism (although I don't think it's because of freemasonry).
Freemasonry - I love that. It should have its own thread. This forum's off to a flying start in 2017!!
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Old Yesterday, 08:25
Mulett
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I just wanted to make you all aware that DS has updated its community guidelines rules and this includes the following:

2.18 - Baiting
Don't wind people up to try to get them to say something in violation of the Terms and Conditions. It's obvious to other users and to us, doesn't work (we evaluate other posts and wider context when dealing with alerts), and backfires.

2.9 - Respect
While you are of course welcome to disagree with other members, we will not tolerate posts which insult, belittle, bait or otherwise antagonise forum members. This includes posts which disrespectfully label others posters as 'fanboys', 'haters' or similar.

I think this is a really important and positive change - particularly the inclusion of 'baiting'. But on a more specific note, the use of words like 'fanboys' is now a definite no-no for the forum.
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Old Yesterday, 09:14
Granny McSmith
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But on a more specific note, the use of words like 'fanboys' is now a definite no-no for the forum.
I can still call myself a Tennant fangirl, though; yes?
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Old Yesterday, 09:15
Mulett
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I can still call myself a Tennant fangirl, though; yes?
A screaming Tennant fangirl, surely?
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Old Yesterday, 09:49
Michael_Eve
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I can still call myself a Tennant fangirl, though; yes?
Hmmm. Well, if you're calling yourself a Tennant fangirl to bait and wind yourself up, then I think you might be in a bit of bother. If it's in fun and you're okay with yourself doing it, I reckon you'll be alright. I'm afraid I've decided to alert your post as I'm not sure of your intentions towards yourself, so sorry about that Granny.

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Old Yesterday, 10:29
Gigabit
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Moffat is just not good at helming a large show like DW with lots of themes and backstory.

I think he's good with Sherlock because he was with it from the beginning and so has been connected to it from its inception.

But with Doctor Who he's never understood - I don't think - that you need good individual episodes rather than lots of mediocre/poor ones leading up to a series finale, which is what he does.

Ever since he took over DW has been going right down the pan. Series 5 was distinctly worse than series 4 and it has been getting worse since then.

RTD knew what he was doing and when I go back and watch his episodes they are every bit as good as when they were first aired. The ironic thing is that a lot of the "good" episodes in his era were actually written by Moffat! He's good when he's constrained but when he's allowed to run free he just goes crazy and ends up with shit.
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