Well, I enjoyed the trailer for the Christmas special and the "sneak peek". I don't agree at all that it reinforces 12's supposed "kill joy" image.

I am very much looking forward to the special itself. It looks like it could be fun, as a Christmas special should be. I am glad we seem to be leaving behind the gloom of season 9

Greg Austin's non spoiler review of the episode actually got me excited for it, he also mentions 12 was quite fun in the episode.

The episode will be fun and while Matt Lucas has told people that Nardole will be different from his last appearance, I'm still not really that excited for his character factoring so heavily in Series 10.

So you want a forum where everyone just agree's that every episode was the best it could ever be and that everything is perfect? Now that would be boring, not to mention it would render the forum pretty pointless, since the main point of it is discussion and exchange of differing personal opinions on the same material.

He is a good comedy actor. But he didn't do great in his last outing. But then again Christmas episodes are never really that great anyway.

I understand your sentiment, but with only a single episode in the last year and a half, you eventually run out of stuff to talk about.

I have a thread on the 2017 releases (as I had one on the 2016 releases before that).
Another guy keeps making threads on the classic serials and talks about them.
There is a thread about Class.
And, of course, there is a thread about Christmas Episodes.

However, it is nigh impossible not to be boring when there just is not much else to talk about. The activity will pick up after the Christmas Episode and a good bit once Series 10 starts, but, until then, it is mostly going to remain boring.

Is Nardole definitely in Series 10 as well? Hope not.

He's a recurring character. From the sounds of it he's more significant than someone like Danny Pink, but not quite as significant a companion as Bill.

Moffat more or less has admitted the character is in the majority of the series.

I'm not trying to be horrible but does anyone really think the character is going to have a Donna type of positive impact or will he just be in the way? I can't help thinking the latter.

As far as fan reaction goes it's almost a complete repeat of the Donna situation, though she was far more of an annoyance in her debut episode than Nardole. And that turned out fine for most people. The prospect of his return doesn't excite me much I admit but I see no reason to be negative. Is it a case that people are unable to seperate Matt Lucas from his most famous roles in Little Britain in much the same way people were thinking of shouty obnoxious chav Tate which was just one character of hers among many? Like Tate, Lucas is a gifted comedic actor who can do subtle and deadpan just as well so don't necessariy expect it to be the over top clown show some people are expecting. Of course if they do go down that route I take it all back and its all terrible.

Relies far too much on formula now.

There's too much sentimentalism too. Often in the form of long drawn out speeches that come out of nowhere accompanied by rousing music.

The humour isn't very funny either, but it's written as though it thinks it's funnier than what it is.

There's also a lot about it which is simply annoying because it's trying to make political points here and there. It sometimes feels preachy. I think it's less about the points but more about how it does it.

It looks like something where lots of money has been thrown at it, which makes it all the more noticeable when you think that it should be better than what it is what with all the talent involved.

I like the comparison with Rick and Morty in the OP. That is a fantastic show where each episode is very engaging, even though it plays it for laughs.
I think that may be one of the secrets. Make it look as though you're not trying too hard. Be clever, but don't show off about it. Write clever, but make sure that you don't appear too self-aware and make it appear blase and casual. Like it feels natural, not forced.

It's been so long now, that if the next ep we see is a silly xmas romp that's embarrassingly childish, even I may be tempted to just pack it in.

If an old friend avoids you for years and then acts like a total idiot the next time you meet, you'd probably decide to write them off as a waste of space.

I never understood with Doctor Who why they believe it's a good idea to give the show a rest every so often. I believe that this was originally Russell T Davies' idea and they've taken it as gospel.
Many shows just crack on with it and are hugely successful every series.

It's a bit like Ricky Gervais and his misguided belief of the two series rule just because Fawlty Towers only lasted two series.
Lots of series are great for many series.

Because in my opinion it's all this splitting the series up into two parts a year, sometimes a special, sometimes half a series, which has made it almost impossible for me to follow the show, as what has happened previously is no longer in my consciousness. I just can't keep track of what is going on with the narrative.
The year gap between each new series is the only break you need. That's the break in itself.

I have to agree its unfortunate we have 2 christmas specials back to back and nothing in between. Wish they would make a doctor who story rather than another Christmassy story which has been done to death since the Christmas invasion.

I don't think any of the deviations from the norm have been because the BBC are doing it simply out of choice because they think it will help the audience enjoy it more (or keep it fresh, or avoid barbeques or whatever cobblers they think up at the time).

If it hadn't been for unavoidable behind the scenes issues we probably never would have had the gap year specials, the 2011 split series, the 2012 autumn mini series, the 2013 Spring mini series, the move to a full autumn runs for 2014 & 2015, the 2016 absence of a series and then finally back to where things started - full runs starting Easter.

Of course they tend to try and present it via PR as some sort of wonderful idea about keeping the show fresh or avoiding barbeques or the need for a 3 month cliff hanger because the plot was too exciting to not put in a 3 month wait for the cliff hanger to be resolved. etc etc, but that's just PR cobblers and can be safely ignored as such. They've got to say something and it's all fun, but can be safely ignored. They were fairly open (eventually) about things for the 2009 run - the team were absolutely knackered and the next team were unable to make a full run to be shown in 2009. Hence specials in 2009 and a full run in 2010.

In each case they pretty much had no choice but to chop and change things. They don't always come out and tell us in plain language what the exact behind the scenes issue is, but there's always something. It's never because anyone at the BBC has had the idea of a break simply because it popped into their mind as a good thing to do.

I think when they moved to Autumn they hoped it would be a success, even though it was initially done because they had no choice due to production issues. But it wasn't a success. So, when yet more behind the scenes production issues led to them being unable to make a series to be shown in Autumn of this year they decided to shunt it back to a full unbroken run starting Easter - the 2005-2008/2010 schedule. Which they now hope will remain the pattern for as long as that remains possible (assuming they keep on making it indefinitely).

I don't know how this compares with other similar series - there aren't really many series on UK TV quite like Doctor Who. It would have been nice if they had managed to just keep making unbroken full runs starting Easter year in year out, but they only managed to do that between 2005 and 2008 before exhausting the team and needing a break. I'm sure that if Chibnall's team don't suffer the variety of problems that Moffat's team suffered they'll just stick to full runs starting Easter. But they don't yet know what as yet unknown problems they might encounter. Neither did Moffat when he started making series 5.

Why don't they hire more people for the team or hire a second team so that production can continue unabated?

Isn't that something of what they did back in the 1960's when we had 40+ episodes per season?

Avoidable, not unavoidable.

Exactly. It's just poor planning and unprofessionalism. If I told my superiors I won't be able to produce the goods this year but I might next, I would soon be out on my ear and replaced by someone who could deliver.

I'm not excited by the news either, but I'm hoping that it surprisingly works.... the Christmas episode will give us a look into what its going to be like, whether the character is good now or not will effect any enthusiasm I have going into series 10... fingers crossed that they make the character interesting and worthy of being there.

Why would Matt Lucas need to tell people that Nardole will be different from his last appearance unless there was something wrong with it?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it...

I must admit my love for the show as a whole (not just the current era) has waned considerably. Maybe that's owing to changes in my life this past year, during which there has been no new episodes whatsoever, or maybe my tastes have altered slightly. One thing I know for sure though is that I'm not particularly bothered about the upcoming Christmas special. I will watch it, but not necessarily on Christmas Day. It's not the "must watch" show that it used to be for me. I will only watch it when I can be arsed. I don't even care about series 10 at this stage. It's all very "meh". Maybe Chibnall will inject a new lease of life into the show that'll get me interested again. Only time will tell.

Well, yes, I suppose if the production team which took over in 2009 had been of the same calibre as the 2005-2009 team then maybe the problems affecting 2011 and 2012 might have been avoided. And if Moffat hadn't become so knackered by producing series 5 and series 6 (plus Sherlock) then the 2012 mini series debacle might have been avoided ("13 episodes all starring Matt!" - er, no. Private Eye were correct.).

I meant unavoidable in the sense that the BBC had little or no choice but to accept the reality of the showrunner and the circumstances he and the producers were in. I suppose they could have chosen to ditch Moffat and his entire production team at the first hint of trouble, but one can see why they didn't. So I simply mean "unavoidable" in the sense of "given the reality of the situation faced by the BBC at the time of each situation".

Maybe in an alternate reality a different set of producers would have taken control of Cardiff during 2009 and a different showrunner was chosen to write the scripts. Don't know who though. Moffat was the clear and only choice for showrunner at the time. I don't know what choices the BBC had for the other producers (i.e. the ones that didn't last long and were either demoted or who left the BBC under a cloud shortly after series 5/6).

Of course the revolving door of producers didn't stop after series 6 - series 7 and the anniversary year were hugely affected by Moffat related producer problems. But by then it was all a bit too late - Moffat was making a success of Doctor Who (despite the erratic schedule etc) and was a super hot property due to Sherlock. The BBC weren't going to risk two of their biggest shows simply because the showrunner had some involvement in Doctor Who becoming somewhat erratic in scheduling. Why would they? Put it in the hands of a lesser talent simply because the lesser talent would promise 13 episodes a year starting at Easter with no gaps?

Well we know the producers from series 5 through 7 didn't last long. There's every indication various senior people did find themselves out on their ear. Of course it was all spun as them simply choosing different career paths for themselves entirely voluntarily. But reading between the lines...

Having said that, I don't think it's as simple as "unprofessionalism". Writing and producing Doctor Who isn't exactly a turnkey operation. Maybe the RTD team from 2005-2008 were simply a once in a lifetime happenstance of talent who could just about manage it for those few years before collapsing in a heap, unable to continue.

Christmas Invasion was great, Voyage of the Damned was good, in fact most of Tennants xmas ones were good.

For you, only the Christmas Invasion and parts of The Next Doctor is all i can stand for Tennant Christmas specials, the rest i find utterly awful.