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Vegetarians - Vegan's who try to make you feel bad for eating meat
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Heston Veston
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by Whedonite:
“Wasn't there a veggie/vegan bashing thread not long ago? One where someone seemed to take personal offence at the fact that I'm veggie and even started some childish name calling?”

Dietary prefences are like your religion or your sex life. Fascinating to you maybe, but nobody else cares about it or wants to hear about it.
joshua321
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by Heston Veston:
“What truth? Animals reared for food are not treated cruelly, not in this country.”

I call having your wings and beak clipped and force fed so that you end up unable to walk and sliding around in a tiny cage in your own faeces where the light is always maximum brightness, or being pumped up beyond recognition with growth hormones and plugged up to a machine while your child is taken away and killed after a few weeks, then marched into a blood-soaked shed to watch those in front of you have bolts through their heads, cruel, but maybe you have a better definition?
benjamini
05-12-2016
What I find incredibly offensive from vegetarians is the Constant guilt tripping.
They constantly moan about the abuse they face but read this thread andlike all the previous ones before it's all about the guilt tripping but where are they when it comes to animal husbandry? Nowhere . Good animal husbandry is promoted by the farming. Community and consumers of meat.
Putting your hands over ears and eyes ands refusing to understand that meat is and will continue to be a huge part of the UKdiet does not improve animal welfare.
The mere tokeism of stating im a vegetarian changes nothing.
Many many people care deeply about animal welfare and work hard to promote it.
joshua321
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by benjamini:
“What I find incredibly offensive from vegetarians is the Constant guilt tripping.
They constantly moan about the abuse they face but read this thread andlike all the previous ones before it's all about the guilt tripping but where are they when it comes to animal husbandry? Nowhere . Good animal husbandry is promoted by the farming. Community and consumers of meat.
Putting your hands over ears and eyes ands refusing to understand that meat is and will continue to be a huge part of the UKdiet does not improve animal welfare.
The mere tokeism of stating im a vegetarian changes nothing.
Many many people care deeply about animal welfare and work hard to promote it.”

Caring about animals and killing them for meat is an oxymoron. I believe in improving treatment on farms but the reality is that it will always be a cruel practice, because it depends on pretending that animals belong to us to use and that that is their only value.
benjamini
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by joshua321:
“Caring about animals and killing them for meat is an oxymoron. I believe in improving treatment on farms but the reality is that it will always be a cruel practice, because it depends on pretending that animals belong to us to use and that that is their only value.”

Farmed animals are food. That is their raisondetre, if we were to become totally vegetarian almost every single animal in the uk will be slaughtered to free up land for green food stuff. . And that still could not begin to sustain the population.
joshua321
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by benjamini:
“Farmed animals are food. That is their raisondetre, if we were to become totally vegetarian almost every single animal in the uk will be slaughtered to free up land for green food stuff. . And that still could not begin to sustain the population.”

Of course it could. Farming for meat is a luxury that consumes far more space and resources than crop farming.

It wasn't their raison d'etre when they were wild. You could say the same about human slaves - they only exist to reproduce more slaves to work. Does that mean they should be condemned to live like this?

How about farmers stop breeding animals, genuinely care for the ones that are left, and release small, controlled populations and predators back into their native habitats? Even having no more of a species is preferable to the lives they have to lead.
benjamini
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by joshua321:
“Of course it could. Farming for meat is a luxury that consumes far more space and resources than crop farming.

It wasn't their raison d'etre when they were wild. You could say the same about human slaves - they only exist to reproduce to produce more slaves to work. Does that mean they should be condemned to live like this?

How about farmers stop breeding animals, genuinely care for the ones that are left, and release small, controlled populations and predators back into their native habitats? Even having no more of a species is preferable to the live they have to lead.”

I'm not sure what reality you live in to be honest. There is no coherent plan or party who would propose anything so utterly unworkable suggested by you that I have heard of.

Millions of acres of the UK are totally unsuited to crop growing and. Are only suitable for animal husbandry .
The ignorance of food production is quite breathtaking.
Let's free all the animals , grow some food and watch millions die.
joshua321
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by benjamini:
“I'm not sure what reality you live in to be honest. There is no coherent plan or party who would propose anything so utterly unworkable suggested by you that I have heard of.”

Well maybe there should be. What kind of reality do you live in? The double-think one where it's OK to put a bolt through the brain of an animal after a few weeks as long as you convince yourself that you've 'cared' for it beforehand?
benjamini
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by joshua321:
“Well maybe there should be. What kind of reality do you live in? The double-think one where it's OK to put a bolt through the brain of an animal after a few weeks as long as you convince yourself that you've 'cared' for it beforehand?”

Would you prefer to see poeple die of hunger because we cannot feed them ?
Or we prefer not to ?
I grew up from childhood on farms. I have no problem with meat as food. I personally buy organic meat chicken etc. But I'm not even slightly sentimental about meat. And I will not be guilted into it either.
stoatie
05-12-2016
Thing is, we kill FAR more animals "for food" than we (as a society) actually eat.

That can't be right.

A lot of those animals aren't killed for food, but so supermarket shelves can always be full. There is NO justification for that.
benjamini
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by stoatie:
“Thing is, we kill FAR more animals "for food" than we (as a society) actually eat.

That can't be right.

A lot of those animals aren't killed for food, but so supermarket shelves can always be full. There is NO justification for that.”

Surely all food waste is shameful ? It's an indightment of us and our society and greed that we , the UK , is the most wasteful country in Europe as far as food. .
joshua321
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by benjamini:
“Would you prefer to see poeple die of hunger because we cannot feed them ?
Or we prefer not to ?
I grew up from childhood on farms. I have no problem with meat as food. I personally buy organic meat chicken etc. But I'm not even slightly sentimental about meat. And I will not be guilted into it either.”

Far more of the world could be fed if all farmland was used for crops. World hunger is not caused by lack of meat: it's caused by inequality of land ownership, poor distribution, waste, corruption, exploitation by multi-nationals, and not least by overpopulation.

Farming for meat actually contributes to world hunger by sealing off land for grazing that could sustain far more people if it were used for crops.
stoatie
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by benjamini:
“Surely all food waste is shameful ? It's an indightment of us and our society and greed that we , the UK , is the most wasteful country in Europe as far as food. .”

Of course all food waste is shameful. But even though as a vegetarian I can understand the argument for killing animals for food, I don't think there IS a decent argument for killing animals that will never be eaten.
benjamini
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by joshua321:
“Far more of the world could be fed if all farmland was used for crops. World hunger is not caused by lack of meat: it's caused by inequality of land ownership, poor distribution, waste, corruption, exploitation by multi-nationals, and not least by overpopulation.

Farming for meat actually contributes to world hunger by sealing off land for grazing that could sustain far more people if it were used for crops.”

Tell that to the Marines !
It's eating meat, i.e. Protein that caused humans to become develop rapidly.
There is no easy answer as I'm sure you are aware. But freeing sheep and cattle into the hills is certainly not the way forward. The arable land in the U.K. Is already over cultivated , wither use of chemicals at a worrying level. I'm more scared of lettuce and broccoli than meat these days.
joshua321
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by benjamini:
“Tell that to the Marines !
It's eating meat, i.e. Protein that caused humans to become develop rapidly.
There is no easy answer as I'm sure you are aware. But freeing sheep and cattle into the hills is certainly not the way forward. The arable land in the U.K. Is already over cultivated , wither use of chemicals at a worrying level. I'm more scared of lettuce and broccoli than meat these days.”

I agree that land is overcultivated. When it comes down to it a lot of problems could be solved by humans voluntarily reducing their numbers to pre-industrial levels. People probably won't take heed of this until it's far too late..

There is no difference in protein quality between crops and meat though. We can make all the essential amino acids from either. In pre-agricultural times meat was the most dense source of protein, but you have to go back to the Stone Age to see any impact its consumption might have had on brain development.
eggchen
06-12-2016
Bacon tastes good, pork chops taste good.
Heston Veston
06-12-2016
Originally Posted by joshua321:
“I call having your wings and beak clipped and force fed so that you end up unable to walk and sliding around in a tiny cage in your own faeces where the light is always maximum brightness, or being pumped up beyond recognition with growth hormones and plugged up to a machine while your child is taken away and killed after a few weeks, then marched into a blood-soaked shed to watch those in front of you have bolts through their heads, cruel, but maybe you have a better definition?”

It's hard to argue against such prejudiced ignorance. I suspect you've been watching too many PETA videos.
joshua321
06-12-2016
Originally Posted by Heston Veston:
“It's hard to argue against such prejudiced ignorance. I suspect you've been watching too many PETA videos.”

What have I said that doesn't happen? Have you visited battery farms and abattoirs? Can you tell me that those things don't take place? If PETA videos farmers throwing and kicking chicken like footballs, I suppose that's taken out of context?
NeverEnough
06-12-2016
They can try all they want. In my case they will fail.

The best response is to go home a chuck a couple of bacon rashers on the George Foreman. Mmmmmm.
eggchen
06-12-2016
Originally Posted by joshua321:
“What have I said that doesn't happen? Have you visited battery farms and abattoirs? Can you tell me that those things don't take place? If PETA videos farmers throwing and kicking chicken like footballs, I suppose that's taken out of context?”

I liked this bit of yours.

Quote:
“....and plugged up to a machine while your child is taken away and killed after a few weeks”

Nothing like anthropomorphising those animals to get that sympathy flowing.
NeverEnough
06-12-2016
Originally Posted by joshua321:
“I call having your wings and beak clipped and force fed so that you end up unable to walk and sliding around in a tiny cage in your own faeces where the light is always maximum brightness, or being pumped up beyond recognition with growth hormones and plugged up to a machine while your child is taken away and killed after a few weeks, then marched into a blood-soaked shed to watch those in front of you have bolts through their heads, cruel, but maybe you have a better definition?”

Sounds like a good quality steak.
joshua321
06-12-2016
Originally Posted by eggchen:
“I liked this bit of yours.



Nothing like anthropomorphising those animals to get that sympathy flowing. ”

Sorry but do only humans have children, or did I miss that biology lesson?
joshua321
06-12-2016
Originally Posted by NeverEnough:
“Sounds like a good quality steak.”

You're boring and unoriginal.
NeverEnough
06-12-2016
Originally Posted by joshua321:
“You're boring and unoriginal.”

Yep. But well fed.
eggchen
06-12-2016
Originally Posted by joshua321:
“Sorry but do only humans have children, or did I miss that biology lesson?”

Apparently so

child
tʃʌɪld/Submit
noun
a young human being below the age of puberty or below the legal age of majority.
"she'd been playing tennis since she was a child"
synonyms: youngster, young one, little one, boy, girl; More
a son or daughter of any age.
"when children leave home, parents can feel somewhat redundant"
an immature or irresponsible person.
"she's such a child!"
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