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Vegetarians - Vegan's who try to make you feel bad for eating meat |
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#101 |
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: London
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Yep. But well fed.
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#102 |
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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Apparently so
child tʃʌɪld/Submit noun a young human being below the age of puberty or below the legal age of majority. "she'd been playing tennis since she was a child" synonyms: youngster, young one, little one, boy, girl; More a son or daughter of any age. "when children leave home, parents can feel somewhat redundant" an immature or irresponsible person. "she's such a child!" |
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#103 |
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Join Date: Jun 2016
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In that case I will make a point of only referring to human infants as young or offspring, and see how that plays out.
What you are doing is falling into that age old trap of trying to assign human characteristics to animals, to elicit an emotional response. It's the same as when people insist that animals have been "murdered", which is also erroneous. |
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#104 |
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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And you would be wrong again.
What you are doing is falling into that age old trap of trying to assign human characteristics to animals, to elicit an emotional response. It's the same as when people insist that animals have been "murdered", which is also erroneous. Why do humans need special words for their offspring or for being killed, when they refer to exactly the same concepts and processes? |
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#105 |
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Join Date: Jun 2016
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Who is to say that I am anthropomorphising; maybe it's you who is creating artificial distinctions between humans and animals, and those distinctions are reflected in language?
Why do humans need special words for their offspring or for being killed, when they refer to exactly the same concepts and processes? |
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#106 |
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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I am saying that you are, by your deliberate use of said language.
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#107 |
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Join Date: Jun 2016
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The term 'anthropamorphising' implies that the matters under discussion are of any significant difference between humans and other animals. I don't hold with that premise.
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#108 |
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No it doesn't. Anthropormorphising is giving human characteristics to animals, which is what you tried to do by using the word "child". It was deliberate, to elicit a sympathetic or emotional response. It's one of the oldest tricks in the book.
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#109 |
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Join Date: Jun 2016
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Actually it's just the first word that came to mind, because why would you need a different one? As I said, you're arguing that there are some unique 'human characteristics' being discussed here, whereas I don't think there are.
I'm not trying to argue anything, I just see straight through your tactic, as most people will. |
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#110 |
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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You need a different one because like the word "murder", the term "child" refers only to humans. You have used it deliberately in reference to animals because you hope it will invoke an emotional response. Anthropomorphising animals and giving them a human characteristic in this way is an attempt to equate a calf or piglet with a human child, and thus generate a more sympathetic reaction.
I'm not trying to argue anything, I just see straight through your tactic, as most people will. I'm done with this particular discussion because it's going round in circles. |
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#111 |
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Join Date: Jun 2016
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I think you are so blinkered and cynical that you see my use of language as a 'tactic' rather than an expression of how I actually perceive what I'm talking about.
I'm done with this particular discussion because it's going round in circles. It is a tactic though, even if only presented subconsciously. Many vegans, vegetarians, animal rights campaigners etc do the same thing. |
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#112 |
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 349
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I call having your wings and beak clipped and force fed so that you end up unable to walk and sliding around in a tiny cage in your own faeces where the light is always maximum brightness, or being pumped up beyond recognition with growth hormones and plugged up to a machine while your child is taken away and killed after a few weeks, then marched into a blood-soaked shed to watch those in front of you have bolts through their heads, cruel, but maybe you have a better definition?
At the end of the day, for one thing to live something else has to die, be it plant or animal. |
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#113 |
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,470
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... and many people don't know how to use apostrophes, which is why I haven't got involved in this discussion.
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#114 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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It is possible to eat meat from free-range and organic animals. Many meat-eaters boycott factory farm products. That is a different argument altogether and one that veggies, vegans and meat eaters can unite on.
Talk of murder and children with regard to animals is linguistically and legally incorrect. There is nothing more to be said about that. |
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#115 |
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 5,714
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I live in a part of the country where animal farming and meat eating are an integral part of life. Meat and two veg every day is the norm.
None of my family, friends or acquaintances are vegetarian and yet not once has anyone questioned my choice. In fact people go out of their way to make sure they cater for me even though I tell them never to bother. It's nothing to do with meat eaters versus vegetarians . It's about decent people versus ignoramuses. ![]() Quote:
Dietary prefences are like your religion or your sex life. Fascinating to you maybe, but nobody else cares about it or wants to hear about it.
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#116 |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
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What have I said that doesn't happen? Have you visited battery farms and abattoirs? Can you tell me that those things don't take place? If PETA videos farmers throwing and kicking chicken like footballs, I suppose that's taken out of context?
Growth hormone is not permitted in the UK. Abattoirs are not 'blood-soaked' sheds in the UK. Animals are not kept in the disgusting conditions you mention in the UK. UK livestock farming is one of the most highly-regulated industries there are. Any farmer breaking those regulations will soon find himself out of a job. I think it's you that needs to visit some farms and abattoirs, instead of getting your 'information' third-hand from a bunch of ignorant arseholes such as PETA. |
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#117 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Some people can't deal with the fact that we aren't all identical.
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#118 |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Hull
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I agree that land is overcultivated. When it comes down to it a lot of problems could be solved by humans voluntarily reducing their numbers to pre-industrial levels. People probably won't take heed of this until it's far too late..
There is no difference in protein quality between crops and meat though. We can make all the essential amino acids from either. In pre-agricultural times meat was the most dense source of protein, but you have to go back to the Stone Age to see any impact its consumption might have had on brain development. I'm a meat eater. I was vegetarian for a while but it didn't suit me at all. I don't like waste but luckily I have dogs, they eat spleen, heart, feet, necks and all the other good stuff that usually goes to waste. I buy whole ducks, rabbits chickens etc I use what I need and the dogs get the rest. I'm a firm believer that if you are going to kill an animal for food, all of the animal should be used. I buy massive bags of chicken and duck feet, it's a super healthy food for dogs, full of good stuff for their joints. Maybe if more people fed their pets a species appropriate diet, there would be less waste. I hate to think of all those chickens being slaughtered so Asda can have full shelves of nicely packaged chicken breasts while the rest goes to waste. |
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#119 |
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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Things that don't happen:
Growth hormone is not permitted in the UK. Abattoirs are not 'blood-soaked' sheds in the UK. Animals are not kept in the disgusting conditions you mention in the UK. UK livestock farming is one of the most highly-regulated industries there are. Any farmer breaking those regulations will soon find himself out of a job. I think it's you that needs to visit some farms and abattoirs, instead of getting your 'information' third-hand from a bunch of ignorant arseholes such as PETA. |
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#120 |
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Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 51
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Thing is, we kill FAR more animals "for food" than we (as a society) actually eat.
That can't be right. A lot of those animals aren't killed for food, but so supermarket shelves can always be full. There is NO justification for that. Do you think it's wrong to harm animals unnecessarily? |
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#121 |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hebrides
Posts: 28,135
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We live in a society that is now so detached from reality that it has become problematic.
All animals are " sweet, pretty , cute etc" that it's also the food on the plate is a disconnect. Many children do not have any idea where their food comes from and cannot equate it to cows sheep pigs etc. They are just " cuuute. True of many adults also. The Uk cannot sustain itself on a vegetarian diet, so should we kill of the population ? What's the answer ? |
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#122 |
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: London
Posts: 1,436
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Quote:
We live in a society that is now so detached from reality that it has become problematic.
All animals are " sweet, pretty , cute etc" that it's also the food on the plate is a disconnect. Many children do not have any idea where their food comes from and cannot equate it to cows sheep pigs etc. They are just " cuuute. True of many adults also. The Uk cannot sustain itself on a vegetarian diet, so should we kill of the population ? What's the answer ? The answer to over-cultivation and overpopulation is for people to be educated into voluntarily reducing the birth rate, but this needs a worldwide approach and is very unlikely to happen in the near future. I agree with you about the disconnect between animals and meat in people's minds - but surely recognising the connection is more likely to make people compassionate than not. People who think animals are simply 'cute' tend not to value them as beings and more as accessories. |
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#123 |
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 842
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I find it's a very select few vegetarians/vegans that will lecture you, these people are best avoided as even if you become vegetarian/vegan they will find something else to lecture you about.
When I was in college I went out for a meal with such a person and ordered a mixed grill just to annoy them even more. They avoided me after that. I was very petty at that age, although when I went for meals with a couple of vegetarian friends who never lectured I always picked a veggie option. I don't mind veggie dishes as long as they don't pretend to be a meat dish, eg. vegetable and bean chilli is great, soya mince chilli is horrible and due to my severe soya intolerance is agony for several hours afterwards too. |
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#124 |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hebrides
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I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that the UK can't be sustained on a vegetarian diet when you can feed far more people with less land by farming crops vs grazing animals.
The answer to over-cultivation and overpopulation is for people to be educated into voluntarily reducing the birth rate, but this needs a worldwide approach and is very unlikely to happen in the near future. I agree with you about the disconnect between animals and meat in people's minds - but surely recognising the connection is more likely to make people compassionate than not. People who think animals are simply 'cute' tend not to value them as beings and more as accessories. |
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#125 |
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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All arable land in the U.K. Is already being over used. Do you appreciate the amount of chemicals that are being pumped into the ground for the earth to sustain three crops per year ? It's very worrying. Take meat, protein, out of our diet and we cannot sustain the population. It's that logistically simple.
We also produce a lot more crops than we actually use and throw a good proportion away before it even gets to the supermarket. Grazing land can also be converted into arable land, providing crops that more than fulfil our population's protein requirements. |
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