Me too, so we have that in common.

In that case I will make a point of only referring to human infants as young or offspring, and see how that plays out.

And you would be wrong again.

What you are doing is falling into that age old trap of trying to assign human characteristics to animals, to elicit an emotional response. It's the same as when people insist that animals have been "murdered", which is also erroneous.

Who is to say that I am anthropomorphising; maybe it's you who is creating artificial distinctions between humans and animals, and those distinctions are reflected in language?

Why do humans need special words for their offspring or for being killed, when they refer to exactly the same concepts and processes?

I am saying that you are, by your deliberate use of said language.

The term 'anthropomorphising' implies that the matters under discussion are of any significant difference between humans and other animals. I don't hold with that premise.

No it doesn't. Anthropormorphising is giving human characteristics to animals, which is what you tried to do by using the word "child". It was deliberate, to elicit a sympathetic or emotional response. It's one of the oldest tricks in the book.

Actually it's just the first word that came to mind, because why would you need a different one? As I said, you're arguing that there are some unique 'human characteristics' being discussed here, whereas I don't think there are.

You need a different one because like the word "murder", the term "child" refers only to humans. You have used it deliberately in reference to animals because you hope it will invoke an emotional response. Anthropomorphising animals and giving them a human characteristic in this way is an attempt to equate a calf or piglet with a human child, and thus generate a more sympathetic reaction.

I'm not trying to argue anything, I just see straight through your tactic, as most people will.

I think you are so blinkered and cynical that you see my use of language as a 'tactic' rather than an expression of how I actually perceive what I'm talking about.

I'm done with this particular discussion because it's going round in circles.

Fair enough.

It is a tactic though, even if only presented subconsciously. Many vegans, vegetarians, animal rights campaigners etc do the same thing.

Have you ever looked at the natural food chain, it's as bad.
At the end of the day, for one thing to live something else has to die, be it plant or animal.

... and many people don't know how to use apostrophes, which is why I haven't got involved in this discussion.

It is possible to eat meat from free-range and organic animals. Many meat-eaters boycott factory farm products. That is a different argument altogether and one that veggies, vegans and meat eaters can unite on.
Talk of murder and children with regard to animals is linguistically and legally incorrect. There is nothing more to be said about that.

I agree. Plenty of meat eaters are considerate. I became a veggie when I was 14 and my parents (both meat eaters) helped. Although I still get the "don't you fancy a nice Big Mac?" comments from my dad


My diet isn't particularly fascinating to me, but plenty of meat eaters have acted like it's a big deal. I remember when my friend's ex fiance found out I was a vegetarian. We were in a pub ordering food and he kept making animal noises at me. Once was annoying enough, but it continued to the cinema afterwards. I've had burgers waved in my face for no reason too. It got to the point where I would try to conceal the fact that I don't eat meat, because it was becoming too frustrating to deal with the childish idiots who couldn't just leave me be.

Things that don't happen:

Growth hormone is not permitted in the UK.
Abattoirs are not 'blood-soaked' sheds in the UK.
Animals are not kept in the disgusting conditions you mention in the UK.

UK livestock farming is one of the most highly-regulated industries there are. Any farmer breaking those regulations will soon find himself out of a job. I think it's you that needs to visit some farms and abattoirs, instead of getting your 'information' third-hand from a bunch of ignorant arseholes such as PETA.

Some people can't deal with the fact that we aren't all identical.

How do you suggest we reduce numbers? Kill off the pensioners? Birth rates have already fallen and yet our population is on the rise.

I'm a meat eater. I was vegetarian for a while but it didn't suit me at all. I don't like waste but luckily I have dogs, they eat spleen, heart, feet, necks and all the other good stuff that usually goes to waste. I buy whole ducks, rabbits chickens etc I use what I need and the dogs get the rest. I'm a firm believer that if you are going to kill an animal for food, all of the animal should be used. I buy massive bags of chicken and duck feet, it's a super healthy food for dogs, full of good stuff for their joints.
Maybe if more people fed their pets a species appropriate diet, there would be less waste. I hate to think of all those chickens being slaughtered so Asda can have full shelves of nicely packaged chicken breasts while the rest goes to waste.

Even if what you are saying were true, do you know for a fact that all the meat you eat is sourced in the UK? Every time you go to a restaurant? And all the animal skins you wear too?

What justification could there be for killing animals at all when we have no need to?

Do you think it's wrong to harm animals unnecessarily?

We live in a society that is now so detached from reality that it has become problematic.
All animals are " sweet, pretty , cute etc" that it's also the food on the plate is a disconnect.
Many children do not have any idea where their food comes from and cannot equate it to cows sheep pigs etc. They are just " cuuute. True of many adults also.
The Uk cannot sustain itself on a vegetarian diet, so should we kill of the population ? What's the answer ?

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that the UK can't be sustained on a vegetarian diet when you can feed far more people with less land by farming crops vs grazing animals.

The answer to over-cultivation and overpopulation is for people to be educated into voluntarily reducing the birth rate, but this needs a worldwide approach and is very unlikely to happen in the near future.

I agree with you about the disconnect between animals and meat in people's minds - but surely recognising the connection is more likely to make people compassionate than not. People who think animals are simply 'cute' tend not to value them as beings and more as accessories.

I find it's a very select few vegetarians/vegans that will lecture you, these people are best avoided as even if you become vegetarian/vegan they will find something else to lecture you about.

When I was in college I went out for a meal with such a person and ordered a mixed grill just to annoy them even more. They avoided me after that. I was very petty at that age, although when I went for meals with a couple of vegetarian friends who never lectured I always picked a veggie option.

I don't mind veggie dishes as long as they don't pretend to be a meat dish, eg. vegetable and bean chilli is great, soya mince chilli is horrible and due to my severe soya intolerance is agony for several hours afterwards too.

All arable land in the U.K. Is already being over used. Do you appreciate the amount of chemicals that are being pumped into the ground for the earth to sustain three crops per year ? It's very worrying. Take meat, protein, out of our diet and we cannot sustain the population. It's that logistically simple.

Of course I do/don't appreciate it (depending on the meaning); I would much rather people farmed organically, but if it is a choice between non-organic and meat I go with non-organic, because it still has a lower environmental impact and does not keep animals in dreadful conditions.

We also produce a lot more crops than we actually use and throw a good proportion away before it even gets to the supermarket. Grazing land can also be converted into arable land, providing crops that more than fulfil our population's protein requirements.