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Do the Nations have a copy of every BBC programme?


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Old 07-12-2016, 13:47
PhilH36
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edit for above, should have read "juggle" of course!
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Old 07-12-2016, 15:48
Richardcoulter
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No doubt there was a good reason why they didn't drop Landward as they would have to explain to London
So are the Nations still answerable to London?

I thought that they were autonomous now (unlike the regions)?
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Old 07-12-2016, 17:31
rmc57
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Perhaps BBC Scotland decided that a new edition of their long-running countryside series was more important than the repeat of Still Open All Ours that the rest of the network was showing?
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Old 07-12-2016, 17:35
skp20040
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So are the Nations still answerable to London?

I thought that they were autonomous now (unlike the regions)?
Maybe they just need to advise them they want something for a different time to everyone else is getting it as opposed to being answerable.
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Old 07-12-2016, 19:30
lundavra
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Perhaps BBC Scotland decided that a new edition of their long-running countryside series was more important than the repeat of Still Open All Ours that the rest of the network was showing?
Not sure what "Still Open All Ours" has to do with it?

Imagine the fuss there will be if a nationally known leading Scottish born entertainer / celebrity (or Rod Stewart) dies and a tribute is only shown in Scotland and network do not bother showing it for a few days.
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Old 07-12-2016, 19:34
technologist
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So are the Nations still answerable to London?

I thought that they were autonomous now (unlike the regions)?
The nations have full control of their schedule and how the programmes are displayed and the precise time of the Playout. Thus they do not opt out of BBC one .. they are BBC one <nation> ..
The regions do opt out of BBC one as they have to run London schedule and just replace the opt out programmes and the elements within a programme.
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Old 07-12-2016, 19:53
ftv
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The nations have full control of their schedule and how the programmes are displayed and the precise time of the Playout. Thus they do not opt out of BBC one .. they are BBC one <nation> ..
The regions do opt out of BBC one as they have to run London schedule and just replace the opt out programmes and the elements within a programme.
Except London has consistently blocked ''The Scottish Six''' so they don't have full control of their own schedules.
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Old 07-12-2016, 21:05
sat-ire
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Perhaps BBC Scotland decided that a new edition of their long-running countryside series was more important than the repeat of Still Open All Ours that the rest of the network was showing?
The point is that the other BBC Ones had dropped the scheduled Open All Hours to run an episode of Fawlty Towers.
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Old 07-12-2016, 21:35
SteveBentley
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The nations get a 'clean feed' of the 2 networks, that is the programmes without the junctions and free from credit squeezes, voice overs etc. The gaps are filled with a spinning bbc logo graphic, which has been seen on air occasionally!

Of course they still have the network output to go to out of hours or when needed during the day
As I understand it, there are permanent feeds of network output for BBC One and Two, a clean feed of BBC One network, and a switchable feed. Usually the latter carries the BBC Two clean feed, but if BBC One Scotland (for example) needs a different feed from London to what is on network (bad example: the news studio) they can arrange for BBC Two Scotland to work from the dirty feed and use the switchable feed.

(I say bad example because nations taking news bulletins tend to do it via their feed of the News Channel rather than studio output because it simplifies subtitling arrangements.)
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Old 08-12-2016, 00:24
lundavra
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Except London has consistently blocked ''The Scottish Six''' so they don't have full control of their own schedules.
Is it not a case of them being told that if they want the Scottish Six then they will have to fund it themselves. I suspect it is only the dedicated political wonks who want it and of course the journalists who will profit from it. It would probably just end yet more football on the news,
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Old 12-12-2016, 00:43
rmc57
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The point is that the other BBC Ones had dropped the scheduled Open All Hours to run an episode of Fawlty Towers.
No, the point was that the main BBC Network decided that Open All Hours was a suitable programme to be cancelled to make way for the tribute.

BBC Scotland clearly decided that Landward was more important to them than Open All Hours was to the network and thus decided to schedule the tribute for a different slot.

I thought I had put this very simple point quite clearly. Obviously I hadn't simplified it enough.....

By the way, what other explanation would you offer?
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Old 12-12-2016, 17:41
weetomuncher
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BBC Scotland are very prone to putting locally produced shows ahead of network shows that are considered movable.

I've seen fairly important national shows dumped off to make way for 'quota' shows especially, often shows that are locally produced arts programmes or suchlike that are shown to keep a specific proportion of certain programming on air.
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Old 12-12-2016, 20:20
aberboy
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I remember seeing something about time shifting programmes on BBC Wales (or possibly S4C when it took C4 programming) and it would literally 'videotape' the network to show later but the programme would have to fully finish on the network before it could be shown.
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Old 12-12-2016, 22:12
Westy2
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I remember seeing something about time shifting programmes on BBC Wales (or possibly S4C when it took C4 programming) and it would literally 'videotape' the network to show later but the programme would have to fully finish on the network before it could be shown.
Is that basically what Channel Tv used to do with Crossroads back in the early 80's?
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Old 13-12-2016, 08:27
Mark C
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I remember seeing something about time shifting programmes on BBC Wales (or possibly S4C when it took C4 programming) and it would literally 'videotape' the network to show later but the programme would have to fully finish on the network before it could be shown.
Yes, although in exceptional circumstances BBC Wales (and possibly the other BBC nations and S4C) did time-shift programmes and show them before they'd finished on network. Just required nerves of steel, very accurate timing, and three spare VTRs. The latter was probably the biggest constraint. Of course easiest for S4C because the C4 programmes would have had ad breaks in them every 20-30 mins.

I suspect if that was required, they'd normally get London to play out the programme in advance down a spare line, and record it locally, or even have a tape couriered from London.
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Old 13-12-2016, 08:53
commseng
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Yes, although in exceptional circumstances BBC Wales (and possibly the other BBC nations and S4C) did time-shift programmes and show them before they'd finished on network. Just required nerves of steel, very accurate timing, and three spare VTRs. The latter was probably the biggest constraint. Of course easiest for S4C because the C4 programmes would have had ad breaks in them every 20-30 mins.

I suspect if that was required, they'd normally get London to play out the programme in advance down a spare line, and record it locally, or even have a tape couriered from London.
Back in the 1980s I vaguely remember that programmes would be sent occasionally by line, but if there was time, the BBC used to have a good regular internal postal system.
There was the network of "trunkers" (lorries) which made daily deliveries to the major broadcast centres, and weekly deliveries to the local radio stations.

At Kendal Avenue (the home to Tel OBs) there was the "magic cupboard" where anything put in there would appear at Pebble Mill the following morning.
I suspect that Birmingham trunker refueled there as it headed up the A40 out of London.
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Old 13-12-2016, 13:19
Richardcoulter
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I remember being at a friends in Cardiff circa 1983.

We were watching a film on S4C that had been on C4 earlier in the night and it just suddenly cut to black for a while and then went to static!

My friend said that this was a regular occurrence.

Did the tape run out? Was the tx on a timer?
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Old 13-12-2016, 16:08
fedman
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Within ITV during the 1970's / 80's it was quite normal to record 'down the line' other contractors programmes for later transmission. The playout VTR would be cued to show the full 30 sec VTR clocks, this was done because 2" VTR's could take up to 10 seconds to provide a stable picture.
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Old 13-12-2016, 18:30
red16v
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Within ITV during the 1970's / 80's it was quite normal to record 'down the line' other contractors programmes for later transmission. The playout VTR would be cued to show the full 30 sec VTR clocks, this was done because 2" VTR's could take up to 10 seconds to provide a stable picture.
.. and you may recall Fedman that the tx routine sheet in front of the transmission controller would point out if something he was 'putting put' was being recorded by another company so that he and the vt play out person specifically put it on a 30 sec roll (lest they forgot or mcr didn't jog their memories at the appropriate time!!).
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Old 14-12-2016, 09:50
fedman
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.. and you may recall Fedman that the tx routine sheet in front of the transmission controller would point out if something he was 'putting put' was being recorded by another company so that he and the vt play out person specifically put it on a 30 sec roll (lest they forgot or mcr didn't jog their memories at the appropriate time!!).
Yes indeed.
Another complication with that type of playout, i.e. transmission to your network, and playout to others was a requirement to leave at least 20 secs after the 'end of part' caption had faded to black. All well and good, but if it were a programme which hadn't sold much advertising, therefore only a short commercial break, 1 min 05sec was common. That didn't leave the poor VT op much time to cue up the next part 30 sec clock, remenber no off tape pictures in shuttle with 2" quad.
Oh what fun ?
A bit early but Merry Christmas red16v, Dans Dad, and of course everyone else on the forum.
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Old 19-12-2016, 06:39
TonyCurrie
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Yes indeed.
Another complication with that type of playout, i.e. transmission to your network, and playout to others was a requirement to leave at least 20 secs after the 'end of part' caption had faded to black. All well and good, but if it were a programme which hadn't sold much advertising, therefore only a short commercial break, 1 min 05sec was common. That didn't leave the poor VT op much time to cue up the next part 30 sec clock, remenber no off tape pictures in shuttle with 2" quad.
Oh what fun ?
A bit early but Merry Christmas red16v, Dans Dad, and of course everyone else on the forum.
Oh that jogs the old memory! Nowadays we often nab a trail from the dirty feed and clip it up with no 'ears' at all, far let alone 20 seconds!!
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Old 19-12-2016, 07:41
ftv
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I'm told by a friend who used to work for ATV that Birmingham VT put out the same episode of Crossroads two nights running and there wasn't a single complaint from viewers !
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Old 19-12-2016, 11:27
fedman
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I'm told by a friend who used to work for ATV that Birmingham VT put out the same episode of Crossroads two nights running and there wasn't a single complaint from viewers !
Thames used to transmit Yorkshires 'Emerdale Farm' twice a week in the early afternoons. On one occasion, due to our tape librarian not removing Tuesday's tape, and not suppling Thursday's, Tuesday's ep was transmitted for a second time on Thursday. However it was noticed and an apology was made by presentation during the commercial break. It later transpired the reason it hadn't been noticed before TX, was that Yorkshire used the same VTR number for both episodes.
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Old 19-12-2016, 11:47
ftv
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On New Year's Eve BBC1 Scotland will get the main national news at 2125 and then go into Hogmanay programming; the rest of the UK will get it at 2205. As BBC news bulletins are always live they will do the national news twice.
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Old 19-12-2016, 11:56
Mark C
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On New Year's Eve BBC1 Scotland will get the main national news at 2125 and then go into Hogmanay programming; the rest of the UK will get it at 2205. As BBC news bulletins are always live they will do the national news twice.
Which, (as always) will use the 'main' News Channel studio, so the normal hourly flow of the news channel will be disturbed twice within an hour. With the nominated 'BBC 1' newsreader wheeled in twice. (Why they can't use whoever the duty NC presenter is, is beyond me)
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