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Racial segregation growing in the UK.


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Old 05-12-2016, 11:39
Pumping Iron
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No they're not perfectly integrated. Just look at the community centres and associations.
Yes they are. There maybe various community centres, but all are welcome. Your point proves nothing. What percentage of ethnic minorities are a member of a community centre anyhow?

Fact is that millions of ethics minorities are perfectly integrated within our society. It's only in certain areas mainly with one particular faith that there tends to be segregation.
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Old 05-12-2016, 11:39
Inkblot
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The report appears to focus on women and Islam and what it terms misogyny and patriarchy which is rather difficult to argue against. What to do about it ano matter.
Maybe one way forward would be for employers to get training (and give training) on better interviewing and selection skills, and for schools and colleges to do the same for their students. If a Muslim woman seems less outgoing and confident than other applicants, that doesn't mean she's less able to do the job, but it may mean that she has been brought up to feel less confident in her abilities.

I get the feeling that a lot of employers are somewhat impressionable and see a hijab as a sign that a woman is not as good a candidate as others. Of course direct discrimination is not permitted but just thinking "she's not as good as the other applicants" is quite reasonable, as long as it's based on a rational assessment, so better training could help there.
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Old 05-12-2016, 11:40
crystallad
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Already are. There's at least two in my town.



How about in the same house? Mrs Nodger (& indirectly our kids).



Have done and do



See above.



Of course, what a stupid thing to say... but, that doesn't mean I, Mrs Nodger or anyone else does not see (understand) that there are social issues of integration and community self-induced seclusion in some regions.
So from the responses it seems people from Muslims back grounds are more of the problem when it comes to integration. Trump stated a ban until the problem is sorted , is that approach needed in Britain?
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Old 05-12-2016, 11:42
Pumping Iron
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The report appears to focus on women and Islam and what it terms misogyny and patriarchy which is rather difficult to argue against. What to do about it ano matter.
Exactly and it seems so many here think multiculturalism doesn't work, when in reality they're just talking about one faith.
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Old 05-12-2016, 11:43
Vast_Girth
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Do those posters bemoaning the lack of integration want to have Mosques spread about the country, have Muslims move in next door to them, want their children going to school alongside Muslims, want to work alongside Muslim colleagues, want more Muslims to be taking part across all walks of life from shop staff to school teachers to police officers to politicians, and want to see more interfaith couples and marriages. Do those posters actually want UK society society more integrated and intermixed with Muslims?
Why would anyone have a problem with this unless they were a massive racist?
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Old 05-12-2016, 11:43
Nodger
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So from the responses it seems people from Muslims back grounds are more of the problem when it comes to integration. Trump stated a ban until the problem is sorted , is that approach needed in Britain?
BIB 1: Some people. (the answer is always 'some' no matter what group of people are talked about regarding any undesirable aspects).

BIB: 2 No.
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Old 05-12-2016, 12:02
Dotheboyshall
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It's would be hardly noticed if immigrants were spread across the whole of the UK , that the whole point. It would be immigrants fitting into Britain rather than living a life like their mother country. And yes people would accept immigration it is was not to transform their towns like Bradford and alike
People in low areas of immigration would be upset if foreigners moved there.
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Old 05-12-2016, 12:05
Dotheboyshall
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Exactly and it seems so many here think multiculturalism doesn't work, when in reality they're just talking about one faith.
Are you saying a Muslim from Iran thinks the same way as one from Turkey who thinks the same as one from India who thinks the same as one from Pakistan who thinks the same as one from East Africa who thinks the same as one from West Africa who thinks the same as one from Russia who thinks the same as one from Indonesia.

Presumably Sadiq Khan is a misogynist and lives in a Muslim ghetto.
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Old 05-12-2016, 12:14
jmclaugh
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Maybe one way forward would be for employers to get training (and give training) on better interviewing and selection skills, and for schools and colleges to do the same for their students. If a Muslim woman seems less outgoing and confident than other applicants, that doesn't mean she's less able to do the job, but it may mean that she has been brought up to feel less confident in her abilities.

I get the feeling that a lot of employers are somewhat impressionable and see a hijab as a sign that a woman is not as good a candidate as others. Of course direct discrimination is not permitted but just thinking "she's not as good as the other applicants" is quite reasonable, as long as it's based on a rational assessment, so better training could help there.
That sounds like treating the symptons rather than the cause.
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Old 05-12-2016, 12:16
niceguy1966
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It would still be noticeable. Just 5% of a small town of 100,000 people is 5,000. More than enough to group together, no matter how spread around the country. Allowing community centres just for their own kind(whichever one that is) just exacerbates the problems. Community is meant to be "the" community, not "their" community.

I remember a poster on a bus trying to encourage people from other races/faiths to join the Police force. What struck me most, was it referred to them serving "your community" as opposed to "the community".
Why are you assuming that "their community" didn't mean town they live in? If someone asked me to define "my community" it would be much more based on geography than race or religion.
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Old 05-12-2016, 12:18
glasshalffull
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So why hasn't the cuddly multiculturalism melting pot worked?
Years have gone by with people questioning the problem of integration but labeled racist but now the government has finally acknowledged the problem.

This problem gets swept under the carpet time and time again but now has got to a cross ways. I think if governments have to help integration that in its self shows that multiculturalism does not work.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38200989
Assuming you are from a white Judeo Christian background I doubt there is anything stopping you from moving into one of these areas...integration is a two way thing after all
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Old 05-12-2016, 12:23
Pumping Iron
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Are you saying a Muslim from Iran thinks the same way as one from Turkey who thinks the same as one from India who thinks the same as one from Pakistan who thinks the same as one from East Africa who thinks the same as one from West Africa who thinks the same as one from Russia who thinks the same as one from Indonesia.

Presumably Sadiq Khan is a misogynist and lives in a Muslim ghetto.
No I am not saying that. Why are you making that assumption?
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Old 05-12-2016, 12:40
crystallad
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Assuming you are from a white Judeo Christian background I doubt there is anything stopping you from moving into one of these areas...integration is a two way thing after all
I live in Croydon/ south London. I do live in " one of these areas"
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Old 05-12-2016, 12:41
nomad2king
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Why are you assuming that "their community" didn't mean town they live in? If someone asked me to define "my community" it would be much more based on geography than race or religion.
"The community" is a general term. "The X community" is a specific one. "The community" doesn't necessarily include you, ie you help people wherever they're from, whereas "your community" has "ownership".
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Old 05-12-2016, 12:52
Elyan
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There was a Pakistani youth on TV this morning (in Oldham), telling the reporter, "...if white people come round here they get their arses kicked."

Great.
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Old 05-12-2016, 13:03
Gordon g
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There was a Pakistani youth on TV this morning (in Oldham), telling the reporter, "...if white people come round here they get their arses kicked."

Great.
Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Mipuri all seem to be the least integrated communities imo. And they all seem to have one religion in common.
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Old 05-12-2016, 13:13
nomad2king
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There was a Pakistani youth on TV this morning (in Oldham), telling the reporter, "...if white people come round here they get their arses kicked."

Great.
There was a documentary several years ago, where a Labour MP went around certain areas in the North. Repeatedly there were complaints from white British about their treatment from Muslims. They showed one group of the elderly that had been forced out of sitting in one park and had moved to another. Then they show, on camera, people throwing stones to force them out of that park. The Labour MP just put it down to "youthful exuberance". Place pork near a mosque and you end up in jail, but attempting to "ethnically cleanse" an area by physically attacking and harassing people is perfectly ok.
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Old 05-12-2016, 13:13
Granny McSmith
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Do those posters bemoaning the lack of integration want to have Mosques spread about the country, have Muslims move in next door to them, want their children going to school alongside Muslims, want to work alongside Muslim colleagues, want more Muslims to be taking part across all walks of life from shop staff to school teachers to police officers to politicians, and want to see more interfaith couples and marriages. Do those posters actually want UK society society more integrated and intermixed with Muslims?
What a weird post. A lot of the country is like that already. Have you never been to East Lancs/West Yorks? It all seems to work OK.
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Old 05-12-2016, 13:15
Dotheboyshall
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What a weird post. A lot of the country is like that already. Have you never been to East Lancs/West Yorks? It all seems to work OK.
The point being that people object to ghettos until it means that the inhabitants move out of the ghetto to next door to them.
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Old 05-12-2016, 13:16
Mark_Jones9
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It's would be hardly noticed if immigrants were spread across the whole of the UK , that the whole point. It would be immigrants fitting into Britain rather than living a life like their mother country. And yes people would accept immigration it is was not to transform their towns like Bradford and alike
BiB I think you are confusing integration with assimilation. What you appear to want is for immigrants to assimilate to the UK, rather than the UK and immigrants to integrate with each other.
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Old 05-12-2016, 13:17
niceguy1966
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"The community" is a general term. "The X community" is a specific one. "The community" doesn't necessarily include you, ie you help people wherever they're from, whereas "your community" has "ownership".
You are bending over backwards to try and find offence where I'm sure none was intended. "Police your community" can mean your street/town just as easily as any narrow racial/religious demographic that you interpreded it as.

It's an advert, so using a general term has a lot less impact than something that sounds personal. Most adverts use this technique.
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Old 05-12-2016, 13:20
Pumping Iron
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The point being that people object to ghettos until it means that the inhabitants move out of the ghetto to next door to them.
So you're saying is that you want to keep all Muslims together and wouldn't want one next door to you?

See I can make stupid assumptions too.
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Old 05-12-2016, 13:21
Net Nut
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Racial segregation growing in the UK.
One word - Brexit.

It must really be helping?
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Old 05-12-2016, 13:23
niceguy1966
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Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Mipuri all seem to be the least integrated communities imo. And they all seem to have one religion in common.
Mirpur is in Pakistan. Any reason you felt the need to separate them?

Also, Orthodox Jews are probably even less integrated, but they aren't Muslims, so they're OK are they? But it does kind of blow your "one religion in common" line out of the water.
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Old 05-12-2016, 13:26
MARTYM8
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The point being that people object to ghettos until it means that the inhabitants move out of the ghetto to next door to them.
25 years ago all these areas in the northern towns mentioned would have had entirely white British residents. So presumably there must be a reason why they have now become entirely Pakistani or Bengali.

This issue arises not because of immigration per se but the scale and pace of it which leads to some ethnic groups being able to set up parallel systems and cultures to when they had in their original country - so there is no need to integrate as they become the dominant or exclusive group in certain towns or estates and don't therefore need to learn English etc.

And of course if the state provides free translation services all the time when they access public services they never have to learn English. This is not generally done in most other European countries - as if you want an interpreter you must usually pay for it. If you make it unnecessary to integrate or learn English a lot of people won't bother.

Maybe our problem is we are just afraid to say we are proud to be British and you should respect our culture and values if you want to live here. If you cannot maybe you shouldn't live here.
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