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Racial segregation growing in the UK.


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Old 05-12-2016, 13:26
Mark_Jones9
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Why would anyone have a problem with this unless they were a massive racist?
According to NatCen British Social Attitudes Survey 40% of the population of the UK self identify as having racial prejudice.
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Old 05-12-2016, 13:37
Elyan
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Mirpur is in Pakistan. Any reason you felt the need to separate them?

Also, Orthodox Jews are probably even less integrated, but they aren't Muslims, so they're OK are they? But it does kind of blow your "one religion in common" line out of the water.
Hardly comparable.

There are only around 50,000 orthodox Jews in the whole of the UK. The biggest single concentration is around 15,000 (London).

There are well over a million Pakistanis in the UK. Over 170,000 in the North West of England alone.

And Orthodox Jews don't chase white British people out of the areas in which they live. In fact, they are some of the best neighbours you could wish to have, and the areas they live in are kept pristine.
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Old 05-12-2016, 13:45
Dotheboyshall
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As the report points out in one recent year more money was spent promoting the Cornish language than the English language, efforts are hotchpotch and piece meal. They seem to be more related to making the government looking as if it's doing something than doing something.
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Old 05-12-2016, 13:45
Dotheboyshall
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Hardly comparable.

There are only around 50,000 orthodox Jews in the whole of the UK. The biggest single concentration is around 15,000 (London).

There are well over a million Pakistanis in the UK. Over 170,000 in the North West of England alone.

And Orthodox Jews don't chase white British people out of the areas in which they live. In fact, they are some of the best neighbours you could wish to have, and the areas they live in are kept pristine.
So it's OK for ultra orthodox Jews not to integrate.
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Old 05-12-2016, 13:47
CRM
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Mirpur is in Pakistan. Any reason you felt the need to separate them?

Also, Orthodox Jews are probably even less integrated, but they aren't Muslims, so they're OK are they? But it does kind of blow your "one religion in common" line out of the water.
Orthodox Jews are definitely the least integrated.

I like being informed by other cultures, so I really don't get where a lot of people are coming from on this thread. And Vast Girth made an obvious but valid point.
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Old 05-12-2016, 13:56
niceguy1966
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Hardly comparable.

There are only around 50,000 orthodox Jews in the whole of the UK. The biggest single concentration is around 15,000 (London).

There are well over a million Pakistanis in the UK. Over 170,000 in the North West of England alone.

And Orthodox Jews don't chase white British people out of the areas in which they live. In fact, they are some of the best neighbours you could wish to have, and the areas they live in are kept pristine.
We are discussing segregation, and the Orthodox Jews are very segregated. Just bcause there are less of them, doesn't change a thing.

Virtually all Muslims don't chase white British people out of areas in which they live, but let's just throw in some casual racism, then complain when someone calls you racist.
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Old 05-12-2016, 13:58
Gordon g
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Mirpur is in Pakistan. Any reason you felt the need to separate them?

Also, Orthodox Jews are probably even less integrated, but they aren't Muslims, so they're OK are they? But it does kind of blow your "one religion in common" line out of the water.
Because many British Pakistanis tend to seperate themselves from mipuri. I'm not going to go into the reasons why.
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Old 05-12-2016, 14:01
gallag
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This wanting their third world laws and aspirations to supercede UK law results in attacks like this.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...anjem-choudary

Man jailed for attacking boy over embrace with girl in London street
Michael Coe, an associate of hate preacher Anjem Choudary, sentenced to 28 months after knocking teenager unconscious
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Old 05-12-2016, 14:12
niceguy1966
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This wanting their third world laws and aspirations to supercede UK law results in attacks like this.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...anjem-choudary

Man jailed for attacking boy over embrace with girl in London street
Michael Coe, an associate of hate preacher Anjem Choudary, sentenced to 28 months after knocking teenager unconscious
Looks like UK law was ultimatly supreme, as it should be.
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Old 05-12-2016, 15:22
theid
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Because many British Pakistanis tend to seperate themselves from mipuri. I'm not going to go into the reasons why.
Are you thinking of the case in Scotland when a shopkeeper was murdered because of
"Islamic faith differences"? https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ctarian-attack

As far as I am aware no other immigrant OR cultural group in this country has taken to the streets demanding that violent acts should be committed against "non-believers". It still shocks me that this (and worse) happens in public places and very few perpetrators are brought to court to face charges of inciting violence.
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Old 05-12-2016, 15:50
Gordon g
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Are you thinking of the case in Scotland when a shopkeeper was murdered because of
"Islamic faith differences"? https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ctarian-attack

As far as I am aware no other immigrant OR cultural group in this country has taken to the streets demanding that violent acts should be committed against "non-believers". It still shocks me that this (and worse) happens in public places and very few perpetrators are brought to court to face charges of inciting violence.
It's not so much religion orientated, more to do with the fact that they consider them less educated/backwards as far as I can make out. Oldham/Bradford tends to have a higher population of Mipuri I believe than in the South where a lot of Pakistanis come from the Punjab area. A lot of our old IT guys were from that area and they were very derogatory towards the Mipuri.
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Old 05-12-2016, 16:07
Nodger
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According to NatCen British Social Attitudes Survey 40% of the population of the UK self identify as having racial prejudice.
Can't find it on the NatCen site, which study (which year)?
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Old 05-12-2016, 16:12
Talma
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"The community" is a general term. "The X community" is a specific one. "The community" doesn't necessarily include you, ie you help people wherever they're from, whereas "your community" has "ownership".
I've heard many conversations in our very diverse office about 'my '(Indian) community does this, what's it like in yours, what do you do' to a Nigerian, Pakistani, Polish or Ghanaian colleague about anything from food, to TV, to religious customs and festivals to traditions and clothes. A majority were born and/or brought up in the UK but their own particular 'community' with it's customs and traditions seems to take precedence over any sense of any shared, general community.
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Old 05-12-2016, 16:20
TommyNooka
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I stay in an area with the highest concentration of Jews in Scotland, had I not been informed of this I would not have been aware of it.
That is integration.
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Old 05-12-2016, 16:31
Mark_Jones9
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Can't find it on the NatCen site, which study (which year)?
2011, it has fallen to 30% in 2013. Do not know if they still ask the question.
The question in the British Social Attitudes Survey is or was
"would you describe yourself as prejudice against people of other races?"
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Old 05-12-2016, 16:32
Tanky
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There's an awful misconception of what integration means, it's very different from coexisting communities. I would even say Asian communities aren't really integrated, however they coexist with British communities. However, the Asian generation born in the UK are much more integrated though.

What I mean is, Asian communities will keep to themselves, and you can freely walk around talking to them, however you aren't part of their community. There's no animosity involved, nor do they seek to take over or cause trouble, but you aren't really part of their network. I know of Asian people who happily live in the UK, and know British people, but it's only by acquaintance and they don't get together or anything like that, and their network of friends are all Asian. The point is, their inner circle are people from their own community. The UK born Asians are more open though, and their inner circle will comprise of both people from their community and British.

The reason why language courses in the UK don't work, is because they don't really help people learn English properly. I know a relative of mine, went to a once or twice a week free type English courses at the local college, which was fine for the first term and they learned something, but then in the second term, it was the exact same content over again. If you wanted to learn in depth, then you need to sign up for a full time English course at the college, which many won't do, because they work full time and it was only on their days off, that they go on the free course.

There's also the problem of the free English courses, are only in it for the government money. The try to gather as many people on the course for the government grants, and only teach the same content over and over again. Plus it's the basic primary school level English too, such as animal names, buildings, modes of transport and etc. There is no progression, but government money is being wasted.
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Old 05-12-2016, 16:43
Nodger
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2011, it has fallen to 30% in 2013. Do not know if they still ask the question.
The question in the British Social Attitudes Survey is or was
"would you describe yourself as prejudice against people or other races?"
Thank you.

BIB: but not quite the original picture typed "40% of the population of the UK self identify as having racial prejudice" and hence why I couldn't find it.
Considering the question asked (assuming you have now typed word for word) I'm surprised the % isn't higher. Most people have "prejudice against people" for something even if spurious, I would say. You yourself would have described yourself as a "yes".
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Old 05-12-2016, 16:50
Mark_Jones9
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Thank you.

BIB: but not quite the original picture typed "40% of the population of the UK self identify as having racial prejudice" and hence why I couldn't find it.
Considering the question asked (assuming you have now typed word for word) I'm surprised the % isn't higher. Most people have "prejudice against people" for something even if spurious, I would say.
Sorry the bit you put in bold was a mistype by me on my tablet its of not or. Have corrected my post.
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Old 05-12-2016, 16:57
Nodger
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Sorry the bit you put in bold was a mistype by me on my tablet its of not or. Have corrected my post.
Aaahhhh... Best link to the actual study / data (2013's that is):

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/equityDiversi...s-survey-2013/

(Best source from quick google, worth a read on it's own to. May delve back into NatCen later).
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Old 05-12-2016, 19:16
Blairdennon
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Why would anyone have a problem with this unless they were a massive racist?
Islam is nothing to do with race it is a religion and to which there are a number of white followers. A Muslim next door is most likely to be a different skin colour than white but not necessarily so. A Catholic next door is likely to be white but not necessarily so. Both are religions in which there is absolutely free choice in the UK whether you wish to follow it or not. Disliking people for what they tell you they believe is perfectly acceptable. Most people dislike a BNP member not because they know what that person believes but because he is a BNP member and they then make an assumption as regards what he believes and what he stands for. Not sure why religion should be any different.
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Old 05-12-2016, 19:25
Blairdennon
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So it's OK for ultra orthodox Jews not to integrate.
Of course it is not however the whole point about integration is the scale of the problem as regards threats to society, denial of rights of female and young UK citizens and actual physical harm to young as well as ethnic tensions in society. Orthodox Jews are low key and relatively small in number. Some others are not and 'orthodoxy' leads to major problems in terms of law and order.
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Old 05-12-2016, 19:29
allaorta
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Try Googling it.

I mean you won't, for reasons, preferring to feign ignorance.
Here's your post:

Nice to see the Dog Whistles are taking place already.

It would be ever nicer if people had the courage of their convictions when posting


Which word(s) do I Google?
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Old 05-12-2016, 20:30
Dotheboyshall
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The folk the report is talking about are the ones at the bottom who in reality have a lot in common with their "local" equivalents.

It's another report that categorises people and isolates them.
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Old 05-12-2016, 20:42
luckylegs
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I wonder which particular community denies their women even "basic rights" and carries out "harmful religious practices"?
Perhaps you are thinking of Ultra orthodox Jews.
Actually to be fair Christian Fundamentalists in the USA tend to want to do the same.

Pro life, no abortion, rape in marriage doesn't exist etc etc...

I think it is more to do with extremism and people buying into that and using religion, any religion to prop up those views by distorting the religion it is done mostly by men sadly.
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Old 05-12-2016, 22:14
Mark_Jones9
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Of course it is not however the whole point about integration is the scale of the problem as regards threats to society, denial of rights of female and young UK citizens and actual physical harm to young as well as ethnic tensions in society. Orthodox Jews are low key and relatively small in number. Some others are not and 'orthodoxy' leads to major problems in terms of law and order.
Do not see how first BiB is made acceptable by second BiB. Some Orthodox Jewish sects do not sound nice, for example according to Deborah Feldman's controversial best selling book Unorthodox The Scandalous Rejection of My Hasidic Roots.

Also in regards to threats to society and ethnic tensions and law and order antisemitism is a problem in our society as is islamaphobia.
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