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Supreme Court Brexit Appeal
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MargMck
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by porky42:
“Why not?”

Because the Tories will push it through parliament. The vicar's daughter will, if necessary, make a statement to the nation about 'the importance of democracy' and her determination to carry out the result of the referendum. Even if it then went to a GE built around Brexit, the Tories would get a massive majority and use emergency legislation through this mandate to push on to Brexit, blaming the subsequent "hard Brexit" on those who tried to stop it.
HR Guru
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by DinkyDoobie:
“No i'm referring to the judges comments. If you dont have the memory of a goldfish perhaps you can recall the conversation about a stream.

The judge accepted the fact that the prerogative can "change laws" from "time to time". but he wasn't so convinced it applied to the abolition of laws.”

Oh wow. You do have selective hearing and memory. No judge said that at all, in fact not even the government submission says that.

Hint - they referred to "from time to time" as included in the ECA.

And with this I will finish my debate with you as there clearly is no point, as I said earlier.
HR Guru
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by MargMck:
“Because the Tories will push it through parliament. The vicar's daughter will, if necessary, make a statement to the nation about 'the importance of democracy' and her determination to carry out the result of the referendum. Even if it then went to a GE built around Brexit, the Tories would get a massive majority and use emergency legislation through this mandate to push on to Brexit, blaming the subsequent "hard Brexit" on those who tried to stop it.”

See the news about the Tory revolt. 40 of them no support the motion tabled by Labour to get an outline of the Brexit goals. They include pro-Brexiters (they want to ensure she's not backtracking) and remainers.

It's getting quite tight for Tessie.
DinkyDoobie
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by HR Guru:
“Oh wow. You do have selective hearing and memory. No judge said that at all, in fact not even the government submission says that. ”

Yes they did, why don't you check out 8(b) of their introductory summary and rewatch the livestream from the begining and you will see the arguments made and the judges response about a "stream" .

What a joker. in what capacity do you function in a court?

Whatever you do you can't be very good.
jmclaugh
05-12-2016
It is all little more than legal navel gazing which has lost sight of the result on 23 June which by definition means withdrawal from the EU and at some point repealing the ECA. What happens beyond that will be determined by the exit agreement negotiated between the UK and the EU assuming of course we ever trigger article 50 to say we wish to leave in line with that result.
luckylegs
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by Beanybun:
“They're appointed on the recommendation of section committee, from across the judicial process I.e. effectively by their peers, not politicians. Who do you think should be the arbiter if this? Theresa May? ”

BIB

Did I say otherwise?

If I were Theresa May I wouldn't have appealed the decision I would have tabled an emergency motion and asked Parliament to vote immediately.
Aurora13
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by HR Guru:
“See the news about the Tory revolt. 40 of them no support the motion tabled by Labour to get an outline of the Brexit goals. They include pro-Brexiters (they want to ensure she's not backtracking) and remainers.

It's getting quite tight for Tessie.”

The mother of all Parliaments was never going to sit quietly and let an autocratic government dictate. We the people have the right for our representatives to scrutinise the detail. I see the hard right in Tories are now rising up as the dictator isn't doing precisely as they want. Their attempt at a hard right takeover of Tories / government seems to be faltering.
jmclaugh
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by DinkyDoobie:
“Yes they did, why don't you check out 8(b) of their introductory summary and rewatch the livestream from the begining and you will see the arguments made and the judges response about a "stream" .

What a joker. in what capacity do you function in a court?

Whatever you do you can't be very good.”

Haven't you heard the poster's a legal legend in their own sitting room.
DinkyDoobie
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by HR Guru:
“And with this I will finish my debate with you as there clearly is no point, as I said earlier.”

Yeah there really isn't. perhaps get back to me when you understand words and can remember what was said.
Aurora13
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by jmclaugh:
“Haven't you heard the poster's a legal legend in his own sitting room.”

He did call the high court ruling weeks in advance on exactly the rationale the judges gave. I was surprised at his confidence but in this instance it was justified. Wherever his expert opinion was coming from it was right.
jmclaugh
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by Aurora13:
“He did call the high court ruling weeks in advance on exactly the rationale the judges gave. I was surprised at his confidence but in this instance it was justified. Wherever his expert opinion was coming from it was right.”

So the poster says, I'd have bet money on the judges agreeing with Mrs. Miller lawyers' position and ruling how they did, just as I fully expect the same result from the supreme court.
luckylegs
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by HR Guru:
“But that is based on the High Court ruling. What would happen if the Supreme Court decides what exactly has to be debated by Parliament to protect domestic law and rights?
Very much a possibility and then you'd get a huge delay in the Lords even if the Commons just vote yes without amendments (which is becoming more unlikely by the day)
.”

But they aren't doing that are they.
luckylegs
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by Aurora13:
“The question to be asked is why is the government pursusing this? Government are game playing nobody else.”

Personally I don't care the end result will be the same.
HR Guru
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by jmclaugh:
“Haven't you heard the poster's a legal legend in their own sitting room.”

Aww here you are! I thought you were still busy finding us an EU directive amending domestic which the UK implemented without and Act of Parliament... but alas you just waited in the corner until you could throw one of your personal insults as per usual when you're having a bad hardliner Brexit day
HR Guru
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by Aurora13:
“He did call the high court ruling weeks in advance on exactly the rationale the judges gave. I was surprised at his confidence but in this instance it was justified. Wherever his expert opinion was coming from it was right.”

Originally Posted by jmclaugh:
“So the poster says, I'd have bet money on the judges agreeing with Mrs. Miller lawyers' position and ruling how they did, just as I fully expect the same result from the supreme court.”

I think the point Aurora13 was trying to make that I had their rationale spot on as opposed to relying on some sad conspiracy theory about the establishment robbing the poor people of their voice.

Thanks btw A13.
HR Guru
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by luckylegs:
“But they aren't doing that are they.”

Considering they've demanded the details of the Great Repeal Bill which Eadie couldn't produce (as it doesn't exist) I wouldn't be surprised if they did.
Beanybun
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by luckylegs:
“BIB

Did I say otherwise?

If I were Theresa May I wouldn't have appealed the decision I would have tabled an emergency motion and asked Parliament to vote immediately.”

Fair enough, but your point was what exactly

I agree with you re Tessie re the Appeal, which seems pointless and the result inevitable, though I'm pretty sure if she proceeded as you suggest, we'd be in court now arguing about the validity of said bill; at the very least a much stronger chance of it being rejected.

The fundamental problem here is that we the public want to see the shape of Tessie's Brexit. And suddenly she's come on all shy...
DinkyDoobie
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by HR Guru:
“Aww here you are! I thought you were still busy finding us an EU directive amending domestic which the UK implemented without and Act of Parliament... but alas you just waited in the corner until you could throw one of your personal insults as per usual when you're having a bad hardliner Brexit day ”

The point isn't whether or not they amend domestic law the point is that the UK is bound by the directives and if they don't amend the law they are in breach of their obligations, which Parliament didn't vote for.
jmclaugh
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by HR Guru:
“Aww here you are! I thought you were still busy finding us an EU directive amending domestic which the UK implemented without and Act of Parliament... but alas you just waited in the corner until you could throw one of your personal insults as per usual when you're having a bad hardliner Brexit day ”

I'd have trouble as EU directives afaik are implemented by amending the ECA not via new acts of parliament otherwise we have hordes of them but as you are so keen on finding them go look for yourself.

In any case we've been over this, the EU makes a law and all member states have to implement it whatever parliament reckons. If the EU decided tomorrow to abolish FoM what parliament thinks about it is irrrelevant.

For you to speak about insults is truly funny.
DinkyDoobie
05-12-2016
Oh and i'd just like to point out that for all Gina Millers protestations about parliamentary sovereignty most (if not all) of her objections to article 50 are about rights granted by the EU.

She can't be elected as an MEP, she can't appeal to the ECJ/ECHR etc.

So much for democracy and parliamentary sovereignty. She's a liar and a fraud.
HR Guru
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by jmclaugh:
“I'd have trouble as EU directives afaik are implemented by amending the ECA not via new acts of parliament otherwise we have hordes of them but as you are so keen on finding them go look for yourself. In any case we've been over this, the EU makes a law and all member states have to implement it

For you to speak about insults is truly funny.”

Oh we amend the ECA to implement EU directives. Wow and I thought I'd heard it all.

Please enlighten us... when was the ECA amended last?

So the Working Time Regulations, TUPE regulations, Part time worker regulations and the other 30 ACTS OF PARLIAMENT in employment law alone weren't actually ACTS OF PARLIAMENT?! Wow I really have to make sure that all tribunals stop referring to them as ACTS OF PARLIAMENT.

After all they're all EU dictates and we had no choice to amend them, add to them or indeed allow Parliament to debate them and vote on them. It's not like the WTR got stuck in the Lords for ages or anything like that.
Annsyre
05-12-2016
A very interesting day one.
DinkyDoobie
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by HR Guru:
“After all they're all EU dictates and we had no choice to amend them”

No you didn't otherwise you would be in breach of your obligations, they're binding.
HR Guru
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by DinkyDoobie:
“Oh and i'd just like to point out that for all Gina Millers protestations about parliamentary sovereignty most (if not all) of her objections to article 50 are about rights granted by the EU.

She can't be elected as an MEP, she can't appeal to the ECJ/ECHR etc.

So much for democracy and parliamentary sovereignty.”

And your point is?

You do realise that she was simply made the lead claimant by the court. You have heard of the People's challenge, Dos Santos and the other dozens of claimants and what their objections are?

Regardless, appealing to the ECJ is not an EU right, it's a domestic right with domestic law referring to it. So your argument is null and void.

Similarly, being able to stand for MEP elections is domestic law in two devolved nations (not adding more details to this as I don't want to make things even more confusing).
DinkyDoobie
05-12-2016
Originally Posted by HR Guru:
“And your point is?”

That she's a liar and a fraud. It was at the bottom of my post. I know you have trouble following things but i thought that was fairly clear, I dont know why you snipped it out.
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