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Old 05-12-2016, 14:48
luckylegs
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To ensure there is no way in hell of winning this appeal so any delay can't be blamed on May.
But there won't be a delay.
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Old 05-12-2016, 14:49
luckylegs
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I am surprised that they are hearing the appeal at the Supreme Court when there are so many self-certificated experts on here.
Having read this thread I am asking myself the same question they could have saved the Tax Payers a lot of money.
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Old 05-12-2016, 14:50
HR Guru
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But there won't be a delay.
Says who?
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Old 05-12-2016, 14:50
DinkyDoobie
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Maybe you should stop only looking at the government's arguments (you would have been ill advised if you would have done that prior to the High Court ruling).

The RP can't be used to alter domestic law. Even the government admits that.
Oh look. A strawman.
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Old 05-12-2016, 14:51
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Oh look. A strawman.
I think debating with you is pointless; you're trying to argue the unarguable for no reason and you're missing at least three quarters of the picture.
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Old 05-12-2016, 14:51
Beanybun
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I find this comment hilarious
Haven't you got a book burning to attend?
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Old 05-12-2016, 14:52
DinkyDoobie
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I think debating with you is pointless; you're trying to argue the unarguable for no reason and you're missing at least three quarters of the picture.
I think debating with you is pointless considering I already acknowledged the point that Parliament is involved with transposing the obligations of treaties into domestic law but that the treaty is the root, which is the purview of the Crown.
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Old 05-12-2016, 14:53
luckylegs
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The Justices of the Supreme Court are not experts in law? How do you suggest that they reached their position then?
They were appointed to the Supreme court they are not any more expert than any other Judge however what they are being asked to do is critique other Judges, their colleagues, decision.
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Old 05-12-2016, 14:56
HR Guru
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Love how he had no answer to "if entering EU was a joint enterprise between executive and legislative, shouldn't leaving it be too?"

Oh and question regarding the Great Repeal Bill really caught him off guard
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Old 05-12-2016, 14:57
John146
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Perhaps i have read this article incorrectly, but, it does say that EU law automatically becomes UK domestic law, without the approval/vote of Parliament.

http://www.instituteforgovernment.or...ommunities-act
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Old 05-12-2016, 14:59
HR Guru
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Perhaps i have read this article incorrectly, but, it does say that EU law automatically becomes UK domestic law, without the approval/vote of Parliament.

http://www.instituteforgovernment.or...ommunities-act
The you didn't read it correctly. From your link:

It ensures that some types of EU legislation – including treaty obligations and regulations – have direct effect in the UK’s legal system without the UK Parliament having to pass any further legislation. For example, safety standards on imported goods have been agreed at EU level and apply in every member country.

It means that some types of EU legislation – including directives and decisions – can be made to apply in the UK either by primary legislation (Act of Parliament) or – much more commonly – by secondary legislation. An example here is the Working Time Directive which was implemented in the UK via the Working Time Regulations.
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Old 05-12-2016, 14:59
luckylegs
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Haven't you got a book burning to attend?
Like I said to the other poster, see below, as for book burning not me sir.



Well I might have believed it if I hadn't read the FM's different style of post a bit later on:

Crikey can't they put all this stuff on a powerpoint or a tablet?

The rustling tomes are like something out of Dickens.
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Old 05-12-2016, 15:00
Beanybun
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They were appointed to the Supreme court they are not any more expert than any other Judge however what they are being asked to do is critique other Judges, their colleagues, decision.
They're appointed on the recommendation of section committee, from across the judicial process I.e. effectively by their peers, not politicians. Who do you think should be the arbiter if this? Theresa May?
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Old 05-12-2016, 15:02
omnidirectional
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Love how he had no answer to "if entering EU was a joint enterprise between executive and legislative, shouldn't leaving it be too?"

Oh and question regarding the Great Repeal Bill really caught him off guard
Is he the best lawyer the government could get? Reading the live updates he seems to be making a less than impressive performance.
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Old 05-12-2016, 15:04
Aftershow
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They were appointed to the Supreme court they are not any more expert than any other Judge however what they are being asked to do is critique other Judges, their colleagues, decision.
So you're suggesting that the process of being appointed to the Supreme Court is effectively a lottery, and that there is no consideration given to their experience and expertise?
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Old 05-12-2016, 15:07
Aftershow
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Is he the best lawyer the government could get? Reading the live updates he seems to be making a less than impressive performance.
Eadie is a good advocate, but he's having to play a bad hand here and struggling (particularly in the last half an hour or so).
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Old 05-12-2016, 15:08
Aurora13
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The you didn't read it correctly. From your link:

It ensures that some types of EU legislation – including treaty obligations and regulations – have direct effect in the UK’s legal system without the UK Parliament having to pass any further legislation. For example, safety standards on imported goods have been agreed at EU level and apply in every member country.

It means that some types of EU legislation – including directives and decisions – can be made to apply in the UK either by primary legislation (Act of Parliament) or – much more commonly – by secondary legislation. An example here is the Working Time Directive which was implemented in the UK via the Working Time Regulations.
As I understood it earlier having listened to a bit of it. Scrutiny of EU directives etc is done by a cross party committee of Parliament. If something is deemed appropriate it is sent to the Chamber for debate and primary legislation.

I might have misunderstood but effectively Parliament is involved in the EU directives process. They don't land in UK and automatically become law.
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Old 05-12-2016, 15:10
Aurora13
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Is he the best lawyer the government could get? Reading the live updates he seems to be making a less than impressive performance.
It's the government case that is bad not the lawyer. I saw a bit and ended up feeling sorry for him. The Supreme Court Judges appear to be laying off tearing him apart.
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Old 05-12-2016, 15:10
DinkyDoobie
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It means that some types of EU legislation – including directives and decisions – can be made to apply in the UK either by primary legislation (Act of Parliament) or – much more commonly – by secondary legislation. An example here is the Working Time Directive which was implemented in the UK via the Working Time Regulations.
No it doesn't. What it means is that they have effect and unless you comply with them then you are in breach of the terms. It completely bypasses Parliament and imposes obligations on the state.

For someone who claims to spend so much time in court you seem to have a complete lack of understanding of the wording.
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Old 05-12-2016, 15:11
luckylegs
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Well Parliament has pretty much said if they get a vote on notification of A50 most will vote Aye obviously you've got your Mavericks and notwithstanding Corbyn's attempt at some clarity of being the opposition party.

http://news.sky.com/story/labours-am...le-50-10681748
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Old 05-12-2016, 15:11
HR Guru
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As I understood it earlier having listened to a bit of it. Scrutiny of EU directives etc is done by a cross party committee of Parliament. If something is deemed appropriate it is sent to the Chamber for debate and primary legislation.

I might have misunderstood but effectively Parliament is involved in the EU directives process. They don't land in UK and automatically become law.
Correct.

The only exception being TREATY obligations which became binding on all member states at once and only affect trade etc. (hence there not being any conflict with our constitution as no domestic law is affected) - example being the the CE symbol having to be put on products.
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Old 05-12-2016, 15:13
Aurora13
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Well Parliament has pretty much said if they get a vote on notification of A50 most will vote Aye obviously you've got your Mavericks and notwithstanding Corbyn's attempt at some clarity of being the opposition party.

http://news.sky.com/story/labours-am...le-50-10681748
The question to be asked is why is the government pursusing this? Government are game playing nobody else.
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Old 05-12-2016, 15:14
HR Guru
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Well Parliament has pretty much said if they get a vote on notification of A50 most will vote Aye obviously you've got your Mavericks and notwithstanding Corbyn's attempt at some clarity of being the opposition party.

http://news.sky.com/story/labours-am...le-50-10681748
But that is based on the High Court ruling. What would happen if the Supreme Court decides what exactly has to be debated by Parliament to protect domestic law and rights?
Very much a possibility and then you'd get a huge delay in the Lords even if the Commons just vote yes without amendments (which is becoming more unlikely by the day).
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Old 05-12-2016, 15:14
Aftershow
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As I understood it earlier having listened to a bit of it. Scrutiny of EU directives etc is done by a cross party committee of Parliament. If something is deemed appropriate it is sent to the Chamber for debate and primary legislation.

I might have misunderstood but effectively Parliament is involved in the EU directives process. They don't land in UK and automatically become law.
Yes - treaties and regulations take effect automatically (as a result of the 1972 Act). Directives are implemented at the national level, usually via statutory instrument.
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Old 05-12-2016, 15:14
HR Guru
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The question to be asked is why is the government pursusing this? Government are game playing nobody else.
Indeed.

They could have had a simple 3 line bill about a month ago and it would have passed.
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