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Stop smart meters. |
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#1 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: London
Posts: 15,790
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Stop smart meters.
In the post I received a card headed "Stop Smart Meters Now", which claimed, among other things:
That smart meters transmit data over unsecured networks which are vulnerable to hackers That they emit dangerous levels of microwave radiation That some American smart meters have exploded and caused fires That they enable the utility companies to remotely lower your heating levels without your knowledge or consent That utility companies and the government are lying in claiming that they are mandatory and you cannot refuse to have one. The card also contained a website address, stopsmartmeters.org.uk. Now the thing is that I have never, as far as I can recall, made any public comment on the internet or anywhere else about smart meters, so I have no idea why I was sent the card. Fair enough, it could just be a mass mailing being sent to multiple households BUT the card was contained in an ordinary white envelope which had my name and address handwritten and a normal postage stamp. If it was part of a mass mailing surely it would have been pre-franked and my name and address printed directly on the card and it wouldn't have been in an envelope. Anyone else received one of these cards or know anything about them. |
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#2 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 644
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Not received one but I do know they are not mandatory as my supplier has been hassling me for months and eventually I had a normal meter fitted as I did not want smart meter. Apparently the licence had run out on the meter.
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#3 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Brackley, UK
Posts: 16,657
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Quote:
That smart meters transmit data over unsecured networks which are vulnerable to hackers
Quote:
That they emit dangerous levels of microwave radiation
Drivel. They use the mobile phone network to communicate back to their base station. They are no more dangerous to human health (ie;not at all) than mobile phones. Less on average because I don't think they transmit continuously but rather package a certain number of readings and send them in a single burst.Quote:
That some American smart meters have exploded and caused fires
Might be true but irrelevant unless the UK is going to get the same model of smart meter and the manufacturer is known not to have addressed the fault.Quote:
That they enable the utility companies to remotely lower your heating levels without your knowledge or consent
Unlikely. There might be an element of supply loading adjustment but it will be implemented in a way that the customer won't notice.Quote:
That utility companies and the government are lying in claiming that they are mandatory and you cannot refuse to have one.
The government has never claimed that they are mandatory. They are very keen on pushing them and don't go out of their way to say they are optional however.Quote:
Now the thing is that I have never, as far as I can recall, made any public comment on the internet or anywhere else about smart meters, so I have no idea why I was sent the card.
A mass mailing probably. I'm glad people are trying to get it stopped. Not because I believe any of the silly paranoia about health risks or losing control over my heating and appliances. I object to it because they aren't going to achieve what the government claims and will just end up costing us more money for little to no gain, at least in the short term. I also feel that the way the project has been managed and the implementation of the technology is poor.So I object mainly because, like so much of what the government does, it's a waste of money, badly thought out and poorly executed. |
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#4 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 24,098
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Smart meters are being pursued, because, they allow things like running fridges only at late night, thus ''smoothing out'' the difference between peak and base loads, requiring less power stations to be built. But having said that, our greedy energy companies, in the real world, are run by accountants not engineers ......
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#5 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 24,098
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At the current ''state of the art'', i personally wd not accept a smart meter. Maybe when ''the 2nd generation' appears .......
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#6 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 24,098
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As an engineer, i don't think they give off ''microwaves'', but hacking is probably a real concern ......
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#7 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,632
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I love a good scare post about the dangers of a technology, especially when the post contains little or no factual information and shows a complete lack of any knowledge of the actual technology or that two devices with the same general name may be wildly different.
I actually laughed at "dangerous microwaves", it's less than a text every few hours on a mobile given that it's using the same network but not moving and it's a hell of a lot further away from the human body than any mobile phone is when in use (or just being carried). Unless of course it's normal to sleep with a gas/electricity meter under the pillow. Re the "adjust heating", simply not possible with the meters consumers are getting, they have no way to adjust what comes out from the meter compared to what goes in (except maybe a complete shut off). They can't adjust the gas flow on a gas meter as doing so would be a danger (boilers etc all work with fairly specific pressure ranges), and have no interface with the actual heating controllers. This bit sounds like someone has taken what the "Smart meters" that the likes of factories and warehouses can sign up for, and applied it to the residential "smart meters" without taking into account that the business versions require changing all sorts of other parts of the electrical and gas systems when fitted. An example of this is if you run a business distributing frozen food and have several warehouse size freezers, the power company informs you they need to reduce load, and the system cuts power to some of the freezers, this isn't a problem for a few hours as they're designed to maintain a suitable temperature for hours anyway but it does mean you can't open them to take stuff out. For agreeing to this scheme the company gets paid some very hefty fees for what is (when it's planned for in advance) a fairly minor inconvenience. The likes of plastics factories and other companies that use a lot of power for heat also get similar deals. As fior exploding smart meters, IIRC one model in America had a problem, but the failure rate wasn't actually that different to some of the older dumb meters. It's like saying that all mobile phones are massive fire risks because of the Galaxy Note 7,. |
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#8 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 626
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I would refuse to have one
Had enough problems when a new electric meter, and then a new gas one, and the hassle because the relevant meter departments did not know and requests for meter readings drove their computers into meltdown |
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#9 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,632
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Quote:
As an engineer, i don't think they give off ''microwaves'', but hacking is probably a real concern ......
I think they may be using a variant that is designed to be more secure as there are various "overlays" that can be applied to the different mobile phone standards to allow for things like emergency communications, railway communications and telemetric data from devices.. The actual meters themselves will also from what I've read store a set of readings for months/years in addition to what they transmit. |
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#10 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,632
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Quote:
I would refuse to have one
Had enough problems when a new electric meter, and then a new gas one, and the hassle because the relevant meter departments did not know and requests for meter readings drove their computers into meltdown For example there are problems with the fact that there are still meters that give imperial readings, which means that the system has to know which ones are which and do a conversion to the metric standard. Smart meters are meant to reduce at least two or three of the main issues with getting accurate and correct readings, whilst also being easier/cheaper to get the readings. |
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#11 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Brackley, UK
Posts: 16,657
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The most stupid thing to my mind is that there's little standardisation on the protocols. So when you change supplier it's likely your smart meter will stop being smart.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/m...suppliers.html Supposedly resolved as of October according to that article but why on Earth was it not standardised from day one? Stupid. |
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#12 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 16,125
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I don't have a smart meter and regard it as one of those 'look like we are doing something' initiatives. A bit like the low energy light bulbs the energy companies insisted on giving us some years ago. I have a cupboard full and suspect I won't use most of them now that low energy LED technology has arrived. I wonder what the environmental impact was of manufacturing, distributing and eventualy disposing of somethig I didn't want in the first place
Anyway I digress. I am a little perplexed as to know what someone hacking into my smart meter would do with the data they had mined. Why is knowing how much electricty I consume of value? |
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#13 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: A Sound Expert
Posts: 13,881
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They are all about changing tarrifs at peak load times during the day.
Want to use electricity or gas between 5pm and 9pm, you will pay more! |
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#14 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Southern East Anglia
Posts: 75,216
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Twice EoN have offered to fit me a smart meter, and twice they've failed to show up.
So I won't bother again. Make do with the old one. |
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#15 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: In a jar, on a shelf
Posts: 31,678
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Quote:
Smart meters are being pursued, because, they allow things like running fridges only at late night, thus ''smoothing out'' the difference between peak and base loads, requiring less power stations to be built.
The reality is 'smart' meters currently being installed are actually very dumb and do nothing more than remote meter reading, and disconnection if you don't pay. Or won't pay for a premium uninterruptable electricity supply. They offer no consumer benefit and currently can complicate switching suppliers. One possible benefit would be if the meters included tariff rates and a button you could press to switch to the cheapest.. But for some strange reason, that's not seen as a benefit to the suppliers.. |
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#16 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,741
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Quote:
They offer no consumer benefit and currently can complicate switching suppliers. One possible benefit would be if the meters included tariff rates and a button you could press to switch to the cheapest.. But for some strange reason, that's not seen as a benefit to the suppliers..
I think the real benefit to users would be for those on pre-pay, since funds can be added by tapping a code into the controller, therefore doing away with the whole going to the shops with a fob nonsense. |
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#17 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,570
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Quote:
I don't have a smart meter and regard it as one of those 'look like we are doing something' initiatives. A bit like the low energy light bulbs the energy companies insisted on giving us some years ago. I have a cupboard full and suspect I won't use most of them now that low energy LED technology has arrived. I wonder what the environmental impact was of manufacturing, distributing and eventualy disposing of somethig I didn't want in the first place
Anyway I digress. I am a little perplexed as to know what someone hacking into my smart meter would do with the data they had mined. Why is knowing how much electricty I consume of value? It's probably an urban myth, but I read somewhere that they were sending containers of the stupid things to third world villages that didn't even have electricity - just to balance the books. Not bad, as conspiracy theories go . . . |
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#18 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: UTB!
Posts: 470
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Quote:
In the post I received a card headed "Stop Smart Meters Now", which claimed, among other things:
That smart meters transmit data over unsecured networks which are vulnerable to hackers Quote:
That they emit dangerous levels of microwave radiation
Quote:
That some American smart meters have exploded and caused fires
Quote:
That they enable the utility companies to remotely lower your heating levels without your knowledge or consent
How will the meter alter settings on appliances when the only connection is 3 wires that provide nothing more than power? |
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#19 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: UTB!
Posts: 470
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Quote:
Smart meters are being pursued, because, they allow things like running fridges only at late night, thus ''smoothing out'' the difference between peak and base loads, requiring less power stations to be built. But having said that, our greedy energy companies, in the real world, are run by accountants not engineers ......
The claim they can control appliances is complete nonsense, always has been and always will be. |
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#20 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Pit of Despair
Posts: 50,183
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I've been pushing for one and am finally having one fitted in January. I don't want it to help me keep control of my electricity usage or anything like that, I want it so that I can now top-up my prepayment meter without leaving the house. It's that simple.
As for that mailing you received, sounds like another tin foil wearer. |
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#21 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 364
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Quote:
Smart meters are being pursued, because, they allow things like running fridges only at late night, thus ''smoothing out'' the difference between peak and base loads, requiring less power stations to be built. But having said that, our greedy energy companies, in the real world, are run by accountants not engineers ......
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#22 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Pit of Despair
Posts: 50,183
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Quote:
off topic but why is electricity not cheaper at night automatically without having to fit another meter?
You can ask your supplier to go onto Economy 7, but you will find you are paying more for your electricity as you would likely be using most of your electricity during the expensive hours. ETA: All a smart meter does is tell you a lot of detail about what you are using so that you should, technically, be able to see what electricals you use that are using more electricity, perhaps enabling you to cut down or keep your heating lower - monitor your usage. You would really have to be very disciplined to make it work for you in this manner. |
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#23 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Pit of Despair
Posts: 50,183
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Quote:
IIRC that was a wheeze to claim back carbon offset tax (or whatever it's called). A few million CFL bulbs given away free looks - on paper - like a few million KWHs saved. In practice, they used up a lot of the earth's resources during production and ended up in the cupboard unused.
It's probably an urban myth, but I read somewhere that they were sending containers of the stupid things to third world villages that didn't even have electricity - just to balance the books. Not bad, as conspiracy theories go . . .
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#24 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 364
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Quote:
If you are on Economy 7 or 10 there are cheap hours, mostly at night, when things like storage heaters will store their heat and yes, the rate is cheaper. Unfortunately the day rate is more expensive than you may be paying for a non-Economy 7, so all-in-all it's less cost-effective and you really have to be using at least 55% of your electricity in the 'cheap' hours (usually around midnight-7am) for it to work out cheaper.
You can ask your supplier to go onto Economy 7, but you will find you are paying more for your electricity as you would likely be using most of your electricity during the expensive hours. ETA: All a smart meter does is tell you a lot of detail about what you are using so that you should, technically, be able to see what electricals you use that are using more electricity, perhaps enabling you to cut down or keep your heating lower - monitor your usage. You would really have to be very disciplined to make it work for you in this manner. |
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#25 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Pit of Despair
Posts: 50,183
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Quote:
I know, well not heard of economy 10 but we are for ever told electricity is cheaper to generate at night and difficulties of peak use, so why is electricity not just cheaper at night as standard, then washing machines, dish washers and so on could be run at night taking rhe pressure off generating power during the day.
One thing you will find is that you keep the household and neighbours pretty unhappy if you wash your clothes and run other loud machinery at night - I had to stop using my washing-machine at 2am due to complaints. If everybody's electricity were cheaper at night as standard, they would all need a meter that could do the dual times/rates, the cost of it would likely rise as it's sold as a cheaper system (but isn't) and the electricity companies would doubtless increase the daytime rate for everybody. It isn't a cheaper system, it's just sold as such. I pay £40 a week electricity on Economy 7 prepayment meter - all the heating being electric (and fitted by the housing association, who will not fit storage heaters in bedrooms, so they are convector heaters - but I believe most electric heating is more expensive than gas. I'm sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong). |
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