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The Benefit System |
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#26 |
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,925
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The last I read was there are: 22 million people working full time, 8 million part time workers, 9 million economically inactive and 1.5 million unemployed.
I'm not sure how many full-time job vacancies there are. Or simply jobs that pay enough to survive let alone live. But I'm willing to bet it isn't enough to render benefits unneeded. I ain't even taking into account the regional variations in prosperity... |
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#27 |
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Stirling/Windsor/Overseas
Posts: 14,334
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Quote:
The last I read was there are: 22 million people working full time, 8 million part time workers, 9 million economically inactive and 1.5 million unemployed.
I'm not sure how many full-time job vacancies there are. Or simply jobs that pay enough to survive let alone live. But I'm willing to bet it isn't enough to render benefits unneeded. I ain't even taking into account the regional variations in prosperity... |
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#28 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,216
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I posted elsewhere about the man who lost the tip of his finger and is in a fight with the DWP who refused him disability benefits.
To be fair, that's not life changing. |
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#29 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,793
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So, let me get this straight... The disabled shouldn't be given benefits. The unemployed shouldn't get benefits. Nor families. Nor immigrants. People who can't speak fluent English shouldn't get a penny. Everybody, from the terminally ill to those with the mental age of a child should have to work, because after all, there's work out there for everyone!
That's what you're saying? Who should be allowed financial help, in your eyes? Do people only qualify when families are sleeping in the gutter, or should we just bring back the work house?
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#30 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Northants
Posts: 973
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I'm a bit more upset about stories such as these
https://www.ft.com/content/d5efd3a0-...c-f4a01f1b0fa1 Giving millions to mates seems less than fair Jacob Rees Mogg gets £7.6 million to do up 300 bedroom home for those who dont like clicking on links |
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#31 |
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: farnborough
Posts: 1,732
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It's a joke, right? People come into the country, and automatically they're able to make a bunch of claims, be that through housing, medical or otherwise. There's countless disabled people who also claim, in addition to all the slobs that are just too lazy to go out there and get a job, so instead get a benefit pay-out so they can waste money (and their lives) on cigarettes and booze!
I get that some people have illnesses or disabilities, but surely there is work (of some description) out there for everyone? When you've got people like Stephen Hawking's who can't do anything for himself, yet is one of the most recognised physicists of this age, and you've got people with no arms who have trained themselves to do daily activities with their mouth/feet - an inspiration to us all, surely? Why on earth is it deemed acceptable to fund those that don't, or haven't contributed? Why should a young mother, or immigrant be given a house to live? Why should an immigrant that hasn't paid towards the economy be entitled to any benefits or our medical system? Why should people be given money merely for being incapable of getting off their ass and doing something (however productive) with their lives? Someone explain this to me, cause I'm obviously missing some fundamental explanations for all of this. http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showt...272&highlight= |
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#32 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 10,231
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I posted elsewhere about the man who lost the tip of his finger and is in a fight with the DWP who refused him disability benefits.
To be fair, that's not life changing. |
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#33 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,793
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Quote:
I posted elsewhere about the man who lost the tip of his finger and is in a fight with the DWP who refused him disability benefits.
To be fair, that's not life changing. You say it's been refused so I fail to see an issue. |
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#34 |
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 4,789
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Many people are mentally ill and cannot work. Who's going to employ these people? Would you employ someone with serious schizophrenia?
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How do you know they don't and why should it be mandatory for all people claiming?
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Our right wing media will gladly whip up a storm of hate against benefit claimants but their moralising also objects to sex education in schools.
I would also add many single parents aren't just young mothers. Many are widowed and others have become estranged from their former partners. Quote:
Well if you think and believe every disabled person can work that is just laughable, but you are all so forgetting a important point . Employers http://www.welfareweekly.com/67-of-b...sabled-people/. 67% of businesses ‘fearful’ of hiring disabled people
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So, let me get this straight... The disabled shouldn't be given benefits. The unemployed shouldn't get benefits. Nor families. Nor immigrants. People who can't speak fluent English shouldn't get a penny. Everybody, from the terminally ill to those with the mental age of a child should have to work, because after all, there's work out there for everyone! That's what you're saying?
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The constraints of the Digital Spy terms and conditions prevent me from telling the OP what he/she needs to be told.
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Oh Wow! Just Wow. You sir have far too much time on your hands, quite pitiful actually. Oh, and yes as it happens. See yourself out! |
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#35 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 10,231
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There must be jobs out there for these people though?
I know they don't because I know of people. Read my replies. As for why? if someone wishes to live in this country, this society, they ought to be able to communicate with the rest of us. I know it isn't all black and white. And why do you think that is? No actually. Well surely you've no more to add than anyone else already has? Oh Wow! Just Wow. You sir have far too much time on your hands, quite pitiful actually. Oh, and yes as it happens. See yourself out! |
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#36 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Pit of Despair
Posts: 50,130
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I get that some people have illnesses or disabilities, but surely there is work (of some description) out there for everyone? When you've got people like Stephen Hawking's who can't do anything for himself, yet is one of the most recognised physicists of this age, and you've got people with no arms who have trained themselves to do daily activities with their mouth/feet - an inspiration to us all, surely? Why on earth is it deemed acceptable to fund those that don't, or haven't contributed?
One thing you don't seem to be realising is that disability benefit isn't means tested. It's provided to help disabled people with the additional costs incurred due to their disability - many disabled people work, they are also still entitled to claim PIP or DLA; whether they receive it in these times of refusing even the most disabled person their entitlement, is another matter.Stephen Hawking is financially stable enough to pay full-time carers, to pay for all of his equipment, he also achieved a lot before he became fully disabled. The actual split of the welfare budget is as follows: Pensions 42% Family benefits/income support/tax credits (for working and non-working families) 17% Incapacity, disability & injury benefits 16% Personal social services and other benefits 13% Housing benefits (to help provide a roof over the heads of working and non-working claimants) 10% Unemployment benefits 1% http://visual.ons.gov.uk/welfare-spending/ |
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#37 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 4,789
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You think it's easy for people with mental health to get jobs? As I said, who's going to want to employ someone with Schizophrenia? Even if they did get a job, how long would they keep if for? My sister has Schizophrenia, and no way can she work as she hears voices and gets paronoid. She wouldn't last 5 minutes in a job. You also have to take in the fact the other staff might not want someone with Schizophrenia working there,
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One thing you don't seem to be realising is that disability benefit isn't means tested. It's provided to help disabled people with the additional costs incurred due to their disability - many disabled people work, they are also still entitled to claim PIP or DLA; whether they receive it in these times of refusing even the most disabled person their entitlement, is another matter.
Stephen Hawking is financially stable enough to pay full-time carers, to pay for all of his equipment, he also achieved a lot before he became fully disabled. The actual split of the welfare budget is as follows: Pensions 42% Family benefits/income support/tax credits (for working and non-working families) 17% Incapacity, disability & injury benefits 16% Personal social services and other benefits 13% Housing benefits (to help provide a roof over the heads of working and non-working claimants) 10% Unemployment benefits 1% http://visual.ons.gov.uk/welfare-spending/ |
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#38 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 25,210
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I posted elsewhere about the man who lost the tip of his finger and is in a fight with the DWP who refused him disability benefits.
To be fair, that's not life changing. |
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#39 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 10,231
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Thanks for the constructive criticism. Obviously I need to do some more research.
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#40 |
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 10,231
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I would like to read this story if you could post a link.
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#41 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 4,789
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Pity you didn't before you posted your ill informed rubbish.
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#42 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 25,210
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There must be jobs out there for these people though?
I know they don't because I know of people. Read my replies. As for why? if someone wishes to live in this country, this society, they ought to be able to communicate with the rest of us. I know it isn't all black and white. And why do you think that is? No actually. Well surely you've no more to add than anyone else already has? Oh Wow! Just Wow. You sir have far too much time on your hands, quite pitiful actually. Oh, and yes as it happens. See yourself out! |
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#43 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 4,789
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Quote:
Why do you think employers dont want to take on the long term sick and the disabled ?
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#44 |
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,793
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I know they don't because I know of people. Read my replies.
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As for why? if someone wishes to live in this country, this society, they ought to be able to communicate with the rest of us.
Sure, but if a person claims on the basis of refugee status, don't you agree that it would be inappropriate to refuse them rights on a language criteria?Quote:
I know it isn't all black and white.
Unfortunately you're posts don't acknowledge this. How would you differentiate between a single parent who can't keep their legs closed as opposed to a single parent who's partner has abandoned them?
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#45 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 25,210
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Quote:
I asked first?
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#46 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Pit of Despair
Posts: 50,130
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Unfortunately you're posts don't acknowledge this. How would you differentiate between a single parent who can't keep their legs closed as opposed to a single parent who's partner has abandoned them? Around £1.3m single parents are owed money they are entitled to but never get - equating to £2.9bn apparently. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30955060 |
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#47 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 4,789
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You may know of people but you probably don't know the circumstances of their claim. Until you do it's difficult for you to make a judgement.
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Sure, but if a person claims on the basis of refugee status, don't you agree that it would be inappropriate to refuse them rights on a language criteria?
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Unfortunately you're posts don't acknowledge this. How would you differentiate between a single parent who can't keep their legs closed as opposed to a single parent who's partner has abandoned them?
Whilst accidents can happen, people (couples) shouldn't be thinking of children that soon into a relationship. The number of women I know, or know of that have several children (some by different fathers) in pre school is worrying. Quote:
well the fear that a disabled person is not going to be as productive as a non disabled person could be one reason. Also alot of disabled people have care needs and have carers looking after them so thinking that every disabled person can work is not really possible
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Why do you think employers dont want to take on the long term sick and the disabled?
Whilst disabled people may have difficulties, they're no more unproductive as some normal people can be, yet they're not given the chance. I'd argue that they're all thought of as incompetent and unable, when I bet more than a fair number of them would be more than willing to give it 110% compared to an able-bodied person. |
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#48 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Edinburgh Scotland
Posts: 58
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My husband has multiple sclerosis and claims personal independence payment. He gets £307 every 4 weeks every single penny goes on taxis plus more out his wage to get him to and from work, he probably would be better off giving up his job but he won't do it but the pip payment is a massive help to keep him able to do his job. No he doesn't feel guilty about claiming it he's still paying tax and national insurance and not getting any other benefit.
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#49 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Pit of Despair
Posts: 50,130
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I don't think people are given the chance some of the time. Whilst a disabled person might not be as productive as a normal person, the same can be said of a normal person. In my place of work there are several individuals who will do as little as possible; just enough that they're kept in work, but they'll never go out of their way to help others, or help with the workload etc.
Whilst disabled people may have difficulties, they're no more unproductive as some normal people can be, yet they're not given the chance. I'd argue that they're all thought of as incompetent and unable, when I bet more than a fair number of them would be more than willing to give it 110% compared to an able-bodied person. My daughter, who is disabled, goes to a special needs school. They run schemes with employers who are willing and able to take some of them on as fully-paid employees, which is great, but it's not available to everybody and not everybody will be capable (be it physically or intellectually). They will still be entitled to their disability benefit either way (technically). They still have to eat, sleep, have a roof over their heads, use special equipment, pay more for transportation, a carer, PA, all sorts, whether in work or not. |
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#50 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,793
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I know the circumstances of two people who have made false claims.
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I think the refugee status should be refined.
You've shifted the goalposts, unfairly I might add . We were talking about a language criteria but now it's about what a refugee is. Are you proposing that refugee status is limited to only those who can speak English? Quote:
I never opted to differentiate between a single parent. I referenced young mothers, and maybe I wasn't specific enough before, but I am specifically on about those that are mothers because they couldn't keep their legs closed.
How do you differentiate between a young mother who 'can't keep her legs closed' as opposed to a young mother who's partner has abandoned her? Would you treat a male single parent differently? Would he automatically get benefits because the legs open / closed test doesn't apply to him? |
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