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Old 05-12-2016, 19:49
Dotheboyshall
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Post Brexit

More than 3 million European Union citizens living in Britain after Brexit will have to be issued with “some form of documentation”, the home secretary has said.

Amber Rudd told MPs she would not yet set out the details for any new EU ID card, but said: “There will be a need to have some sort of documentation. We are not going to set it out yet. We are going to do it in a phased approach to ensure that we use all the technology advantages that we are increasingly able to harness to ensure that all immigration is carefully handled.”
Next step - UK ID cards to prove you aren't EU
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Old 05-12-2016, 20:03
Tassium
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Unless such a card will grant special privileges to it's holder I don't see why anyone would carry it.
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Old 05-12-2016, 20:27
Dotheboyshall
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In the case of EU folk it will prove they are legally in the UK - just like their passport does
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Old 05-12-2016, 20:28
Miasima Goria
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Unless such a card will grant special privileges to it's holder I don't see why anyone would carry it.
Without it we won't be able to work, rent houses or access services. UK citizens and non EU migrants won't need this special I.D.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...eed-form-of-id

The home secretary’s statement came in response to Labour’s Hilary Benn, who told MPs that EU citizens already in the UK would need to be documented so that employers and landlords could distinguish them from EU citizens arriving after Brexit.

In effect it'll be creating a new class of person.
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Old 05-12-2016, 20:31
Cheetah666
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Without it we won't be able to work, rent houses or access services. UK citizens and non EU migrants won't need this special I.D.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...eed-form-of-id

The home secretary’s statement came in response to Labour’s Hilary Benn, who told MPs that EU citizens already in the UK would need to be documented so that employers and landlords could distinguish them from EU citizens arriving after Brexit.

In effect it'll be creating a new class of person.
It won't affect you unless they repeal the Ireland Act of 1949.
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Old 05-12-2016, 20:39
Miasima Goria
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It won't affect you unless they repeal the Ireland Act of 1949.
They haven't said yet if irish citizens are exempt - in all likelihood we will. But in practice we'll still get asked for it I suspect.
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Old 05-12-2016, 20:42
Cheetah666
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They haven't said yet if irish citizens are exempt - in all likelihood we will. But in practice we'll still get asked for it I suspect.
Irish citizens will have to be exempt whether they like it or not unless they change the law.
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Old 05-12-2016, 20:43
dosanjh1
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Post Brexit



Next step - UK ID cards to prove you aren't EU
We already issue documents that prove EU citizens rights to live in the UK

https://www.gov.uk/eea-registration-...icate/overview

All we need to do is expand this to people who don't currently come under it's scope but may need to after Brexit.

Simple.
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Old 05-12-2016, 20:44
thenetworkbabe
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Unless such a card will grant special privileges to it's holder I don't see why anyone would carry it.
.
Because without some form of ID there is no way of knowing if Mr Lefevre is an EU national pre 2019 who has those rights, Mr Lefevre who took out British nationality in 2018, Mr Lefevre who popped over on a daytrip and stayed, or Mr Lefevre whose family arrived in 1688 or 1066.
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Old 05-12-2016, 20:49
kidspud
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Farages wife can be the first to get one.
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Old 05-12-2016, 20:51
howard h
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What determines if someone's *living here* - and therefore would require such ID, compared to someone *visiting*?

Example, an EU person fully entitled to live here after Beday might well ask a relative to come over and stay for nine months or so. Would they require an ID card? Suppose they came for a month but just carried on? Devil's in the detail of course.

But will it eventually whittle down to everyone requires an ID card, even us?
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Old 05-12-2016, 21:04
ShaunIOW
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Wouldn't a passport cover this? Sounds like a scheme to transfer more taxpayer money to a private firm who will do this, as a stamp in a passport is all thats needed.
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Old 05-12-2016, 21:06
howard h
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Wouldn't a passport cover this? Sounds like a scheme to transfer more taxpayer money to a private firm who will do this, as a stamp in a passport is all thats needed.
A passport could simply be stamped. But there's no money going to a (Chinese) private firm who have brib....made their services available to the government to produce these ID cards, so that won't happen.

Although we could hand over the ID card system to G4S. Can't see a problem there?
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Old 05-12-2016, 21:34
Jakobjoe
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why cant everyone have ID cards. not everyone has a passport or wants one.
they are a good idea and will come sooner or later but the government should pay for them and not charge people to have them.
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Old 05-12-2016, 21:34
Miasima Goria
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Irish citizens will have to be exempt whether they like it or not unless they change the law.
From the article I linked to - probably, not 100% though and considering the UK Govts attitude towards Ireland ...

The Home Office has yet to clarify who exactly would have to register, but it is thought that Irish citizens living in the UK, who numbered more than 100,000 in 2011, would be exempt from any such requirement as part of a deal that will see a continuation of the common travel area that predates Britain joining the European Union.

If Irish citizens were required to register as EU nationals it would also complicate the situation in Northern Ireland, where


We already issue documents that prove EU citizens rights to live in the UK

https://www.gov.uk/eea-registration-...icate/overview

All we need to do is expand this to people who don't currently come under it's scope but may need to after Brexit.

Simple.
Not so simple - as it says in the article it will take over 100 years at the current rate of progress to issue this cards. And people like myself that have been here many years do not meet the criteria to get one. I'll have to get private health insurance for a start and hope these cards don't come out in the next five years. At least a million EU migrants here won't meet the criteria for residency.

.
Because without some form of ID there is no way of knowing if Mr Lefevre is an EU national pre 2019 who has those rights, Mr Lefevre who took out British nationality in 2018, Mr Lefevre who popped over on a daytrip and stayed, or Mr Lefevre whose family arrived in 1688 or 1066.
And what about people with Polish, Italian srunames etc whose families have been here for generations? Will they be asked for I.D.? An accent proves nothing.

Wouldn't a passport cover this? Sounds like a scheme to transfer more taxpayer money to a private firm who will do this, as a stamp in a passport is all thats needed.
Who decides whether you get a stamp or not?

I suspected this would happen, it'll just make it more difficult for EU migrants to stay here. Which is probably the point.
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Old 05-12-2016, 21:45
Cheetah666
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From the article I linked to - probably, not 100% though and considering the UK Govts attitude towards Ireland ...

The Home Office has yet to clarify who exactly would have to register, but it is thought that Irish citizens living in the UK, who numbered more than 100,000 in 2011, would be exempt from any such requirement as part of a deal that will see a continuation of the common travel area that predates Britain joining the European Union.

If Irish citizens were required to register as EU nationals it would also complicate the situation in Northern Ireland, where
Whoever wrote that doesn't know the law.

"(1) It is hereby declared that, notwithstanding that the Republic of Ireland is not part of His Majesty’s dominions, the Republic of Ireland is not a foreign country for the purposes of any law in force in any part of the United Kingdom or in any colony, protectorate or United Kingdom trust territory, whether by virtue of a rule of law or of an Act of Parliament or any other enactment or instrument whatsoever, whether passed or made before or after the passing of this Act, and references in any Act of Parliament, other enactment or instrument whatsoever, whether passed or made before or after the passing of this Act, to foreigners, aliens, foreign countries, and foreign or foreign-built ships or aircraft shall be construed accordingly."
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Old 05-12-2016, 21:57
Miasima Goria
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Whoever wrote that doesn't know the law.

"(1) It is hereby declared that, notwithstanding that the Republic of Ireland is not part of His Majesty’s dominions, the Republic of Ireland is not a foreign country for the purposes of any law in force in any part of the United Kingdom or in any colony, protectorate or United Kingdom trust territory, whether by virtue of a rule of law or of an Act of Parliament or any other enactment or instrument whatsoever, whether passed or made before or after the passing of this Act, and references in any Act of Parliament, other enactment or instrument whatsoever, whether passed or made before or after the passing of this Act, to foreigners, aliens, foreign countries, and foreign or foreign-built ships or aircraft shall be construed accordingly."
I don't think they're doubting the law, just this proposal. It throws another potential spanner in the works re Brexit s well, unless Ireland can keep the other 26 on side.
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Old 05-12-2016, 22:00
Cheetah666
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I don't think they're doubting the law, just this proposal. It throws another potential spanner in the works re Brexit s well, unless Ireland can keep the other 26 on side.
Unless the proposal included changing the Ireland Act 1949, Irish citizens won't be included in the ID card scheme. Whoever wrote the Guardian article clearly didn't know that, he thought your status over there had something to do with the CTA, and so obviously doesn't know the law.
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Old 05-12-2016, 22:36
Tidosho
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This must be a first for any country. An ID card to prove you're NOT a citizen of the country?!
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Old 05-12-2016, 22:47
Kiteview
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This must be a first for any country. An ID card to prove you're NOT a citizen of the country?!
Not really. Our Brexit politicians probably see nothing in the idea that our EU citizens would all have to walk around wearing a large identifying symbol, maybe a big "Star of David" or EU equivalent.
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Old 06-12-2016, 01:26
Resonance
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Presumably EU citizens will enter the country with a passport like now. All that's needed is a stamp saying they're coming in as a tourist. Not difficult really. If they want to live/work here they will apply in the usual way and receive paperwork to prove they've been cleared.

So no need for an ID card, just a passport that identifies someone just as well.
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Old 06-12-2016, 03:35
Miasima Goria
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Unless the proposal included changing the Ireland Act 1949, Irish citizens won't be included in the ID card scheme. Whoever wrote the Guardian article clearly didn't know that, he thought your status over there had something to do with the CTA, and so obviously doesn't know the law.
Aah, I see where you're coming from - I read that part of the article to mean something else; itis part of a deal whereas it says as part of a deal to continue the CTA. My bet anyway is thatit'll be optional for irish citizens in theory but in practice we'll have to get them to avoid hassle.

Presumably EU citizens will enter the country with a passport like now. All that's needed is a stamp saying they're coming in as a tourist. Not difficult really. If they want to live/work here they will apply in the usual way and receive paperwork to prove they've been cleared.

So no need for an ID card, just a passport that identifies someone just as well.
Won't there need to be a vias or some sort of screening process for Johnny Visitor before he gets here? Won't there need to be some kind of register?

And in theorysomeone from the EU27 will become illegally employed overnight is the I.D. system isn't in place on time.

but just think about it: the UK is going to pu a policy in place whereby nearly four million people will have to go through extra hoops to access things like housing, jobs and other services. All very 'seperate but equal'.
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Old 06-12-2016, 04:33
Resonance
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Aah, I see where you're coming from - I read that part of the article to mean something else; itis part of a deal whereas it says as part of a deal to continue the CTA. My bet anyway is thatit'll be optional for irish citizens in theory but in practice we'll have to get them to avoid hassle.



Won't there need to be a vias or some sort of screening process for Johnny Visitor before he gets here? Won't there need to be some kind of register?

And in theorysomeone from the EU27 will become illegally employed overnight is the I.D. system isn't in place on time.

but just think about it: the UK is going to pu a policy in place whereby nearly four million people will have to go through extra hoops to access things like housing, jobs and other services. All very 'seperate but equal'.
Well it will be just the same as for non-EU nationals now. When we leave, EU citizens not already here will presumably have the same rights to come as say someone from the USA. That is if there is a vacancy that can't be filled domestically and there's someone suitable from abroad, they'll be allowed in.

That's the way it should be imo. If there's someone already here that can do the job, let them do it. We should only be bringing people in when that position can't be filled.
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Old 06-12-2016, 04:39
JackKlugman
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Why not just make people from the Eu wear a 5 pointed star on their jackets ?

It's cheaper than ID cards and will allow the UKIPers to more easily identify "enemies of the people"

Farage's wife will be immune
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Old 06-12-2016, 05:33
i4u
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Unless such a card will grant special privileges to it's holder I don't see why anyone would carry it.
Discounts on Prosecco ?
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